Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
What is Loopy Pro? — Loopy Pro is a powerful, flexible, and intuitive live looper, sampler, clip launcher and DAW for iPhone and iPad. At its core, it allows you to record and layer sounds in real-time to create complex musical arrangements. But it doesn’t stop there—Loopy Pro offers advanced tools to customize your workflow, build dynamic performance setups, and create a seamless connection between instruments, effects, and external gear.
Use it for live looping, sequencing, arranging, mixing, and much more. Whether you're a live performer, a producer, or just experimenting with sound, Loopy Pro helps you take control of your creative process.
Download on the App StoreLoopy Pro is your all-in-one musical toolkit. Try it for free today.
Bad Sax / Or The Bee’s Sneeze
My friend @rs2000 used the words “bee’s sneeze” to describe his dislike of Sensual Sax and its’ ilk in my tracks. This is a widely held view, especially by musicians, and he is certainly within his rights to feel that way. I can really understand how that vibrato riddled emulation rankles the ears of those used to jazz greats like Coltrane and Lester Young. Ironically, when he played it for his fiancée, a non musician, she liked it and thought the sax was fine... even authentic! We both had a good chuckle over that!
I must add that I have sent my saxual jazz albums to two of my jazz friends (one a sax-ophonist) and their response has been utter and profound silence. I am not dissuaded, however, from the use of these virtual tools, even though many are not what they pretend to be. And here’s why...
Yes, the flack about the NotSax always comes from musicians. I can get it. We are creatures of habit and our hold on the world depends on those habits and the opinions that arise from them. What I know is good. What is foreign (different, not known) is bad. In my experience, musicians, being broke in general, depend on their opinions as a kind of currency. It increases the tenuous hold on identity. The more rigid the opinions, the stronger the illusion of existential solvency. The illusion of structure a metaphorical roof over the head. The grit of the “genuine” over the “artificial”, meat on the table. Desktop over iOS, money in the bank. The more justified the more concretized.
My imminent release of two artificially enhanced jazz albums and the initial response has coalesced my understanding as to the potential invalidity of validity. There is no difficulty except in the dismisseness of some thing unfamiliar... that is until raw fish becomes sushi. Then it becomes cool.
In my world both the authentic and “new authentic” work so long as the material is compelling, Every piece of meat is the best if prepared in the right way. Sometimes my use of virtual instruments works well and sometimes it falls short. For me that is the measure of art making... my use of the tools, not the tools themselves.
I will assemble a synth album next and see if that will skirt the issue. It will be the same creativity underneath but in a package that does not rankle the Acousticers. But it may well fall short for the Synthaesthetes.
And one more element has arisen once again. Perfection and art. In my view perfection should be reserved for architecture only. The building mustn’t collapse while people are fucking on the fourth floor! But if art imitates life than it sometimes must be messy, full of mistakes and often lacking resolution. People are conditioned to like this or that. Especially if someone who “knows” tells them so. Exactitude, measurement, structure.. all the elements that helped Mussolini get the trains running on time! Is it fascistic? Well, when translated to human expression, which has no right angles, yes, a bit. My good friend @McD has often pointed out how my lack of structure condemns me to dusty death. So be it. I am an astructural nonmusician musician. God (who Dat?) just made me that way.
Is there a question here? No. But, of course, you are welcome to view it as such.
Comments
I feel you. I write music that trained musicians scoff at. I use Sensual Sax and other software that users of ‘hardware’ and even higher end software users scoff at.
For myself, while not majorly relevant for myself being a musical Tinker Gnome, I truly believe it’s my lack of decent song writing skills that make the biggest difference. I’m not just talking about training and theory, but those ingredients of skills all cooked together that make a track memorable.
I find many so called ‘real’ musicians have the same problem as I. They may have skills with their chosen instrument, but that’s not what makes a memorable track. Great music is just wonderful no matter what the instruments or tools used. This is especially the case for memorable songs with lyrics and melody.
So while I can understand the ideals surrounding someone’s desire for ‘authenticity ‘, it would only become an issue for myself if someone is just spouting their opinion to annoy - then I would have to ignore them
@EyeOhEss, good reply, but I don’t think you read me carefully enough. I believe in room for both...
“In my world both the authentic and “new authentic” work so long as the material is compelling, Every piece of meat is the best if prepared in the right way. Sometimes my use of virtual instruments works well and sometimes it falls short. For me that is the measure of art making... my use of the tools, not the tools themselves.”
@Fruitbat, Will you marry me! So totally in agreement. Except for your self estimation. I recall differently.
@EyeOhEss ... you really think I am trying to rationalize something here? Give me a break. I, frankly, don’t care very much what people “think” of my music. Fifty years experience has taught me that. Please don’t patronize me. If you don’t understand my point then just leave it at that. You don’t understand it.
OTOH... if I had a “better” iOS sax of course I would use it. But I still could make lousy stuff with it, no?
@EyeOhEss ... try this def... Rationalization. 1.the action of attempting to explain or justify behaviour or an attitude with logical reasons, even if these are not appropriate.
Well, @EyeOhEss I guess you are not reading this so I expect no reply. I am not try to persuade anyone. I am just voicing my thoughts on a particular topic. I am not “rationalizing” the legitimacy of authentic vs. non authentic. Rationalizing, as the def goes, is using logic with inappropriate supporting reasons. It is a put down in case you don’t get it. I do not think people’s reactions to sounds are “instinctive” (except for babies reacting badly to loud sounds). Most Westerners don’t get Chinese Opera. I find it amazing, I am saying most people, and often musicians, are limited by their own inculcated preferences. And that people’s attitudes (including mine) are concretized.
You disagree with me, fine. But don’t say you don’t understand my “core” point and then take it apart with quite ordinary thinking. And then proceed to gentle me along saying if I like it that is all that matters.
Actually, it is you who are the sensitive one, as your upset and outtahere sensibilities attest to. That is gaslighting, I believe. Perhaps you could have straightened me out, maybe even with a mild apology, for the misunderstanding I had that you were being patronizing and condescending. Maybe you were unconscious of it. Just that kind of a vibe.
Well alrighty then......
So, back on topic: fake sax for me ends up being like the Uncanny Valley:
The physical mechanisms involved in a wind instrument (embouchure, fingerings, tonguing, breath control, etc.) especially saxophone, are incredibly difficult to recreate on a keyboard. I would prefer to hear a keyboard playing something sax-like (as in The Incredibles example in the video above) as opposed to striving for more realism, even if only in tone. I don't care so much that a part HAS to be a sax, and if I DO, I go with loops or samples or just hire someone to fucking play the damn thing.
Glad to see you back @EyeOhEss. My point is just not to make the comparison. Uncanny Valley implies that we can't overcome our brains (Strange, I have seen people who look like that robot!)Do you think they are amongst us?). I just don't have that problem it seems. Would I like the sound (using the Sax, for example to be more consistent? Yes, I would. But the tone does not irk me as it seems to bother others. Maybe I am a robot!
I have to fall on the side of "bad sample" = uncanny valley. Like breaking the 4th wall in a play. It can be done to great theatrical effect but nothing compares to art that (perfectly) imitates life for me. It's a form of magic.
Now... to divert this thread to something useful I'll re-state my premise about Jazz:
Old white dudes that play Jazz are playing echoes of the masters of the original art. You could make the case that some odd white dude added something to the history of jazz as art but it might be hard to defend like saying Elvis invented Rock and Roll.
Now that Jazz is a career path from middle school to grad school around the world it's taken on a new
form of academic relevance. It's art but should be called something else out of respect if nothing else for the originators of the innovations that are taught and re-worked to the point that just saying the word will make a lot of people say "boring". It's calcified just like the Symphony Hall where anything new or innovative breaks the social contract with the person that "knows classical music" when they hear it and that was more like musical anarchy.
MUSIC: It's always personal, social and financial in relative non-overlapping portions.
PS: I agree with anyone that simply discloses their opinions about because it's really a chance to share insights. And who doesn't love lively debate? (Old females in my experience. "Will you stop yelling? People are looking at us.").
I really hope some founding members of the Jazz Society chime in with their insights on cultural appropriation. Or maybe ancestors of this over looked generation of artists.
Good post @McD, but so non sequiter (?)! I love that fourth wall stuff. I even used it in the plays I wrote... and there again, no problem for me.
The old white jazz guy... hmmm, sounds like you are profiling me. Ok, some lively debate. Connie Crothers often expressed to me that jazz afficienados don't acknowledge Native Americans as an important branch of the jazz tree. Talk about us cultural appropriators!! We don't even know who we are appropriating! I wish I could remember exactly what she said about it... only forty five years ago. But she did say Native Americans were a big part of Mardi Gras in old Orleans. The beat, man, it's always the beat. Fuck the syncopation.
I guess I am failing to express myself @EyeOhEss. I am not saying don't compare. That wouldn't help much when picking one car over another. What I am trying to say is that if one brings that comparative state of my mind when listening to music it will dominate one's listening experience. Ask @McD. He is blessed (cursed) with an encyclopedic knowledge of music. I hope he will not be offended (our friendship can take it, I think)but it seems like he often carries it around like a piece of luggage. He can't get away from how smart his ears are!
I, on the other hand, have no such burden.
I know you don't like definitions, but will you allow a zen story... a monk was in the marketplace. He overheard a customer asking the butcher for the best piece of meat he had. The butcher replied: "Madam, why, every piece of meat is the best! The monk was enlightened.
Comparison out the window?
Btw, I just posted a jazz album. Full of Sensual Sax. The kiss of death!🤕😂😉
@McD - I defy your definition of jazz as being a museum piece that should be frozen in time.
Bop - sure
Hard Bop - sure
Swing - ok
Big Band - maybe
Etc.....
But do any of these shades of Jazz fully encompass all that Jazz is or can be - ABSOLUTELY NOT. Jazz has evolved well beyond any and all of these previously explored areas to include and exceed them. Jazz now has elements of rock, blues, electronic music, fusion, previous jazz forms...
I offer a few examples in my defense:
Clearly not a "swinging" track, but certainly this is jazz. The solos, the form... But is this music for a museum? I think not
Elements of funk, pop, soul and jazz merge but certainly the jazz element makes itself present here.
More rock, funk and jazz fusion
Esperanza. That is all...
Hiromi
All examples of a relatively current jazz scene or influence.
I see the same happening in the Rock world as well. All the older classic rock guys are declaring that Rock is dead, but they're full of shit - it's alive and well, just in a different form than they are used to.. I have just as many and more examples of the above in the Rock world too.
Things evolve and move forward as they should, and they don't stick to the same old definitions, and that's GOOD.
Haha! No harm, no foul. @EyeOhEss . And yes, very confusing. Ask my wife(s)!
I think you nailed my dilemma. I'm stuck in this music critic mode evaluating everything is the context of
musical history and on the quality of the decisions the artist made. It's a valid approach but tends to make you annoying for artists that really want to use their "child's mind" free of any rules and kill the internal critic.
@Daveypoo, how remarkable it all is.
Yeah. It was a writing prompt to blow the thread up but seriously. Would it be nice to retire jazz as a label
or does it still serve it's purpose to imply music that is improvised. I tend to think Jazz died with Coltrane and what has come after deserves a new genre in the music store.
10 years ago I went to see Billy Cobham and George Duke live and there wasn't a single funk tune in their set. I still think a set of straight ahead jazz is like watching someone "pleasure themselves". Was that good for you? There was one section where George channeled the off the wall humor of his Frank Zappa band years and almost made Billy fall off his drum throne but mostly they played original jazz infused tunes at blazing bebop speeds.
The best thing about Miles was the idea that if it could be imitated he decided he needed to change up the
line up and find a new sound. Who does that now? Maybe Kamasi Washington? Anyone else pushing jazz into new molds? For the IOS crowd what Jacob Collier does with a DAW is pushing the envelope. I can only imagine where he might end up musically by the time he's 40.
@McD ... “retire jazz as a label”? Jazz is a feeling. As long as we feel there will be jazz. It’s like saying we should give up the alphabet... too many old words!
Synthetic instruments sound good in places that only synthetic instruments are needed...backgrounds, soundbeds, and etc...mostly...not always...things like theramin as example.
It’s hard to emulate a real LEAD instrument to be convincing...and then there is the factoring in, that the lead instruments are being played by human musicians who have different vibes, feels, timing, creativity, and skill levels. I guess I’m saying that the music in my head probably differs highly from that of anyone else...especially under a glass.
I find that if you need a real lead...(insert real instrument here🤗) get a real player of that instrument to give it a go...I find that many artists are willing to put something down in many many cases. Just find an artist that plays in a vibe compatible with your own, so that it’s easier to work.
Sensual sax costs a few bucks and takes no time to learn...how could one begin to expect realism from that? If you do...well, you expect a lot.
There are lots pushing the envelope in new ways - Jacob Collier is a great example, but Robert Glasper is as well as Nate Smith and Esperanza Spaulding above. I'm not as plugged in to jazz as I was 20 years ago, but they're there
Saturday Night Live reference: Ya-ya, ya-da, ya-da... jazz is a floor polish. No. Jazz is a dessert topping. Hey! It both!
You might be on to something with this alphabet thing. I Don' like the ordering of the letters. They should be organized alphabetically using the phonetic spellings for each letter:
H - Aiche
R - Are
A - Aye
B - Bee
C - See
D - Dee
W - Double You
E - Eee
F- Eff
L - Elle
M - Emm
N - Enn
S - Ess
X - Ex
I - Eye
G - Gee
J - Jay
K - Kay
O - Oh
P - Pee
Q - Que
T - Tee
U - You
V - Vee
Z - Zee
So that song should go alphabetically by phonetic spelling:
Aiche, Are, Aye, Bee, See, Dee, Double
You, Eee, Eff, Elle, Emm, Enn, Ess,
Ex, Eye, Gee, Jay,
Kay, Oh, Pee,
Que, You,
Vee and Zee
But that might mess up the QWERTY keyboard and make Dvorak roll over in his bunkbed (is he dead yet?).
Back to buying/testing apps.
I only buy these apps to test them for the public good: that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
It's generosity and not digital hoarding.
Wow, what a remarkable thread! And it shows so clearly how good and how bad genres can be.
Good in helping identify, find, match and compare the insane amount of songs out there.
Bad in that putting any of the genre labels on our own music will inevitably open doors for judgements like the "white men playing Jazz" dilemma.
As if skin color would make any difference.
As if old was better than new.
As if an idea could only get worse when re-invented.
I don't like to categorize at all. When I have to, it's usually a bunch of five or ten different genre tags in attempting to roughly describe what the salad bowl of my own creativity contains, because once it's mixed down, it's hard to pick out single pieces and say what they are 😅
A fun example I love to repeat:
Ask a friend if (s)he likes Jazz.
Then play her/him a few very different Jazz songs and let her/him give "likes".
Thanks @Daveypoo for these great examples! 😃
Just consider the timeline. Jazz was incubated in Afro-American scenarios where your white musician would not go. Someone like Dr John could show the exception but most non-black Jazzy musicians didn’t create much but studied Bird, ‘ttane, Miles...
So thinking otherwise just shows disrespect for those milestone giants. I think missing the fact is racist.
Honor the men that showed the way. It's the least we could do at this point.
@McD ... honor the Native Americans contribution to jazz! Connie said so!