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Are iOS music users becoming spoilt brats?
The AB thread ""Still disappointed in the available daws. When is iOS getting Logic Pro?" got me thinking about this...
The question that thread asks kind of suggests that IOS should have Logic Pro as if it is some kind of right. Or that an iOS version of Logic Pro was a promise that Apple made but has not delivered on.
Or that it is reasonable to be disappointed with the DAWs we have (gosh, they are so awful) and that it is Apple's responsibilty to give us Logic Pro to fix the problem.
REALITY CHECK: not so long ago there was pretty much no music software for iOS. In the last 7 or so years we have seen so many great apps released.
And we get them at such a low price.
And we get upgrades for free. Forever.
I remember a time on this forum when there were announcements that such-and-such app is now "on the bus". Everybody was happy with what was being released and there was joy when it got "on the bus".
But now it seems an otherwise great app gets ripped to shreds because it isn't AU. Or someone proclaims they are not going to buy it until the developer adds "MIDI OUT" or some other feature they want. Or someone angrily delcares an app is crap and the developer flogged because the iOS version doesn't do everything the dekstop version can do. You would be surprised at the level of abuse developers get because someone is not happy with some aspect of their app. Not criticism or suggestion, but abuse.
When did we become brats?
Comments
I'd love to hear from developers on this topic... :-)
It’s just human nature. In my day job I work with 3D software on the desktop, and I see exactly the same discussions taking place (when is this app going to get going to get x feature, the competing app/platform is so much better etc).
I’m sure it’s common in every field. People like to complain
It’s not that things can’t be done on iOS it’s more (at least for me) when somewhat simple tasks require a lot of tedious and slightly annoying workarounds I usually ‘heat up’ a bit...
I’m mixing a track here and enjoying it very much, and looking at all the specific features I fought hard for over the years which are actually making this possible...so no regrets 😁👍
@simon, you make a good point about how grotesquely privileged we are to have a book-sized device with more musical power than some huge studios had 25 years ago, at a tiny fraction of the price. And yet, I too get complainy sometimes. Now I have to go recover my gratitude.
For me, part of the frustration comes from the fact that, no matter how many powerful apps I acquire, my music doesn’t get that much better.
It’s still about as good as it was 30 years ago when I had one synth, one drum machine, and a 4-track cassette deck.
Consider the alternative: everybody just shuts up about features and uses what they have.
This forum could then be used to have quality debates about the merits of indoor vs outdoor breathing.
Thank you for speaking it out. If people were busy making and improving on their music with what they have, they'd very likely not complain this much and rather find workarounds using today's tools.
I'm sure that everybody can get better but that needs patience and dedication.
Ya, I think hannah would agree with your premise
Yes, Hanna (Reason Compact) got an unfair roasting here. It shifted from criticism of the app to a personal attack.
Fact check.
Newer iPad Pros with A12x cost $1000-$1500, here in Russia up to $2000.
For that money you can get a laptop that would be much more powerful for music production.
Here’s a list of some DAWS that are free for laptops.
https://bedroomproducersblog.com/2015/11/11/free-daw-software/
You can’t get anything like this on iOS for any money.
Here’re some of the innumerable free instruments and plugins for laptops.
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/specials/free-vst-plugins/
https://bedroomproducersblog.com/2018/12/28/free-vst-plugins-2018/
https://bedroomproducersblog.com/2011/05/07/bpb-freeware-studio-best-free-algorithmic-reverb-vst-plugins/
https://www.kvraudio.com/plugins/windows/macosx/vst-plugins/vst3-plugins/audio-units/aax-plugins/rack-extensions/instruments/free/most-popular
Not only that, but iPads (even newer Pro ones) become unstable under any considerable load.
yes
Roasting is part of the process when expectations are not met especially when it comes from a 'high-profile' company or developer...
I've done may fair share of some times of what is considered 'unfair roasting' but as it has turned out in many cases it has actually helped the apps evolve and improve for the common good
(As long as the criticism is kept at a constructive level I have no issues with it unless it turns to pure nagging and bashing).
Considering I have a tracker background (C64, Amiga etc) where one has pretty extreme control over most things it's annoying to see relatively simple features being left out from apps...
My latest 'love/hate relationship' is with 'synths & apps' that lack a uni/bi-polar LFO waveforms as well as control over the LFOs start-phase when key-sync is used (I consider key-sync as a performance parameter, not a 'dive into menus option') It doesn't help if the modulation amount is bi-polar (which is good!) if the source-wave is bi-polar only...
Take an example such as using a Triangle LFO to modulate filter cutoff or pwm where you want the modulation to 'start' at one end (say for example hoover between maximum cutoff and -50% starting at the maximum value).
If one uses a bi-polar wave 'half' of the LFO cycle will be spent at maximum value, with a uni-polar wave that wouldn't happen.
For the a bi/uni-polar waveforms the start-phase would control at which end to start the modulation...
Oh well, I'll be critical where I can still remain constructive and try to avoid pure app-bashing.
The use of 'strong words' (Worthless, Useless, Crap etc.) is highly subjective and do not represent 'everyone' ...
...what 'Shit' for one user is 'Gold' for another...
I won't apologise for asking for more (ex. AU). My processes are evolving and require more specific features. Why would I buy a synth that doesn't fit with my standard configuration? I love(d) most of the apps I have but I am sure that the quality of what I am doing can be improved with better tools. For example, the Eventide suite really brought something more and qualitative to my recording...I don't expect Apple to give us Logic Pro (I think that they never promise this...) but I really hope a dev will provide us with something even better than Logic!
Many top quality apps for IOS. Platform maybe future. Desktop do more, but more can mean less. All sound same.
Also not ‘grateful’ for IOS, as gratitude for act of kindness or good fortune. Apps are business.
Probably around the time Apple inferred the Pro line was equal to the desktop. Especially as we see the slow evolution of the Surface Pro running desktop DAWs.
Also your claim software is low priced, isn’t true in all cases, in large part this is also due to the very restricted marketplace that is the AppStore.
As for free updates forever, who says this is so.
why are you writing all this shit here. buy yourself a macbook air and put your free list there.
This guy will be the first person in my ignore list, in my opinion this is the best solution
The moment I played Soundprism and Thumbjam, got hooked on IOS
Not the same experience on desktop
IOS has its own space and market
We know.
Buy a Macbook Pro and move on.
Then maybe you'll start to appreciate the things we love using our iPads for.
I really don't understand why people react this way. I'm using iPad for music making since first version of GB and iMS-20. Over last 7 years I've spent $1000+ on music apps, 80% of which I don't use anymore mostly due to workflow issues (or apps are completely abandoned by developers). + another $3K-$4K for iPad upgrades...
And right now we have:
People here were pointing to an obvious market gap - for a platform with so many pro-level synths and effects and pro-level hardware we don't have pro-level DAW and pro-level OS.
You might disagree with that saying that AuriaPro/NanoStudio2/BM3/Cubasis/Gadget are pro-level. And iOS file management is better than on your 30-year old 4-track tape recorded. But if it is enough for your "professional-grade workflow" please let people tell what they want and don't shut them up. That could be a good conversation that might improve the apps or get developers ideas for new software.
But why do you allow such kind of comments like the one "why are you writing all this shit here. buy yourself a macbook air and put your free list there"?
I think maybe (don’t want to put words in anyone’s mouth) it’s a call for politeness and civility. That stuff goes a long way.
Hey vov -
FACT CHECK:
you are on the web site of an iOS developer and you keep going on and on about how bad iOS is for music production and how we should not be using iOS for music. That's a bit rude pal....
Vov, it seems like you don't share the idea of using the iPad as a different way of making music, or at least composing. Your 'facts' imply that one would aim to replace a Win/Mac machine by an iPad, and seriously, I doubt that anybody here would expect that.
We all know what these computers and free software can do but that's certainly not the point of using an iDevice, at least for me, it's much more the chance to get something going while I'm not sitting in front of a desk with all the equipment available. Just grab the iPhone/iPad and start jamming. Experience has shown that while the iOS music apps are technically and feature-wise inferior to desktop apps, many people are considerably more creative when working on such a limited platform.
And this is not apparent when doing theoretical comparisons based on pure specs.
A 2018 iPad plus a good basic set of music apps can be had for $500 easily, maybe a bit more in Russia. If not, with an iPhone market share of almost 40% next to Android phones in Russia, many wouldn't even have to buy an iPad necessarily.
👍 Yes. I did a Google search, and TIL that surprisingly in the distant past (like the 90’s) people used these extra phrases when communicating with others like “please” and “thank you” and “muchos gracias”. I thought it was fake news, but it actually checked out. Weird! 😋
Seriously though... requests (hopefully polite) are of course part of the ecosystem of development. A little patience, humility, and gratitude go a looooong way. As does a general conception of what is currently possible or feasible, and a willingness to pay a fair price.
As far as requests go, imho the recently discussed issue of apps generally only being able to use one thread of iPad CPU is a real biggy. When the latest models have an “Octocore” or whatever, that’s a lot of horsepower sitting in the stable. I think that would have to be ironed out eventually. Not easy or quick, as audio has timing sensitivity that graphics generally don’t.
2 issues being conflated here. Firstly, entitlement culture towards app prices, features and updates. Definitely a problem, to a greater or lesser extent depending on the app. However, the second issue - why no Logic Pro - is TOTALLY valid. Even GarageBand development has been piecemeal. There’s no doubt at all that the iPad Pro line at least should have a version of Logic by now, and also probably Final Cut Pro. The lack of Apple resources being put into iPad app development is ridiculous.
And if you combine those 2 issues..... If Apple did Logic Pro then people will complain that it is too expensive and that you can get Garageband for free !
Yeah a bit, and that’s coming from a Cardinals fan
Funny, all this talk about Logic on ios ... I tried Logic and really just couldn't stand it. So, I don't pine for it to come to ios at all.
That said, feels to me very much like good times on the iPad, from where I sit anyhow.
One of the benefits of being the only 3D guy at the company.