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Female Audiobus users

Off-topic minor discussion here...

Following on the posting about how genial the forums are, I just noticed - could be wrong - and - not that there's anything wrong with it either way - just observing - most of the participants on the Audiobus forums seem to be male (at least - many do who identify themselves - I am).

Does that mean that there aren't many female iOS musicians? Or just that they

a.) haven't used Audiobus yet?
b.) haven't found these forums?

Not making much of that - just curious. Would be nice to know that there is equal gender representation in the iOS synth / Audiobus community. Perhaps not. If not - why not? Can it be encouraged somehow? Plenty of other musical genres have a more or less equally well represented balance of male and female participants although some more than others to be sure. Just that it'd be nice to know that it's being encouraged with iOS instrument use as well.

Having said that ... for a comparison, my daughter who is a flautist, pianist, singer and composer doesn't presently have an interest in iOS synths but is very computer literate and works well in Cubase and Sibelius and with VSTs. One of my sons is a Jazz pianist, guitarist, bassist, synth player and drummer and is strongly into beat production on both keyboards and in Cubase - and he is interested in iOS synths - particularly Korg Gadget. My other son is a classical guitarist, electric guitarist and synth player also (and also works in Cubase) - and he's interested in iOS synths too - though to a lesser degree.

Thinking about it - it seems to be true of the synth world in general as I think on some of the other forums on synth sites too. Odd that.

As I say - just curious. And, no - not trolling for any nefarious reasons - happily married! :-)

Me - I'm into all sorts of things - comes with running a studio and label as well as being a musician - but I've also got the iOS synth app bug as many of us here have - because so many of them are just so good and versatile and offer and open up so many new possibilities in sound production. Do we need to get that word out more? I try and do that on other non-music forums whenever anyone makes some kind of comment about iOS and music - I'll point to the wonderful world of iOS synths - and Audiobus too! Perhaps we just need to do that more?

I hope the question isn't too off-topic - and I do not in any way mean to offend anyone by asking it. On the contrary I'd love to encourage anyone - whatever gender - to particpate in music generally, but was thinking it'd be nice to see here in iOS-musician-land in particular where it seems to be heavily biased to men-folk.

If I am wrong or if I've asked inappropriately - I do apologize ahead of time. No offense intended or implied. As I started off saying - I agree wholeheartedly with the thread that has noted just how genial folks are here. I ask in that spirit.

Derek

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Comments

  • If you look at user ages for this forum, you'll quickly find that the biggest issue is younger people (20-30) don't appear to be able to afford iPads or apps which would lead them here to this forum.

    My side theory is that many of them get cheap android devices from wherever they are employed, so don't feel compelled to go to ios.

    It seems to me that currently, women and men of that demographic have been sucked up into traditional norms in ways Gen X were not. It's really difficult to find non-conformists in the numbers I saw in the 90s.

    And I do believe you have to be slightly non-conformist to be on the bleeding edge of mobile music production.

    I mean, there have to be plenty of people younger than me in the US who still think you need a desktop or laptop for making music at all. Just the thought gives me shivers. It's a scary world.

  • I do remember a post on this forum from a few months ago maybe from a female... so there's at least one of them out there...

  • How about this....

    I'm 14. And male. I live in the US and I was trained classically on violin and later piano with my frustration that I could not play melodies and harmonies at the same time. When I was 12 I wrote my first arrangement in Sibelius on a school computer but was frustrated that I could not produce the sounds that I wanted. My computer was too old to run a convential DAW or VSTs, and my weekend job as a teacher was not enough to buy a new one. A few months later I won an ipad in a raffle and thus begins my journey into music production. Most people my age don't really care about music, they just buy whatever's on the charts and listen to it on terrible headphones, say Beats. The first synthesizer I got was Thor, and I was blown away by all the different sounds I could make. Me and my friend, who is a very talented electric guitar player, would occasionally make a track or two in Garageband. I believe that touch based music production is the future, and that studio-quality sound can be made on a tablet. I also bought Gadget, couldn't resist for more than a day, and have been making about a track a day in it. I own an MPK mini, not too cheap, but it works great. It's really disappointing, however, walking through the halls of my high school and seeing people wearing crappy headphones. Occasionally someone will ask me what I am doing, maybe while I'm programming a synthesizer or something, and I will gladly share it with them. But I either get a hollow ''that's cool" or maybe a "where are the wubs?" I am very concerned for the future of music with the current state of music discovery within my age group. I can continue to program synths and write jazz chords, but that won't change anything. I love what I do, and will continue to do so.

  • " I am very concerned for the future of music with the current state of music discovery within my age group."

    you're too young to be this jaded! I remember feeling a similar sentiment when I was in my mid-late 20's (I'm 42 years old now) ... but something or someone always comes along to keep things moving and inspire others (both young & old).

    I also agree that the touch based music is the future - but i'm sure most here would agree, that's why we have so many appoholics here - it's hard to resist each new app that comes out because they all have cool/innovative interfaces that change the way we think about producing music.

    Keep loving what you do and continuing to make music - that's all you can ask for.

  • @techguy227, really appreciate your perspective and willingness to share it. Do you find the same apathy for other forms of music among your peers. I think there are only a small number of people in any age group who are really pushing boundaries in music (or other creative fields, for that matter).

  • @techguy227 To echo @Moonwolf's comment from a different angle, do you find that folks your age have an interest in playing traditional physical instruments (guitars, piano, drums etc) or not even that?

    I find it interesting that @MusicInclusive's comment implicitly zoned in on synths as the core category of iOS music apps. It's probably true that synths are the biggest category, though let's not forget the sampled instruments (ThumbJam, iFretless), guitar effects (JamUp etc) and general effects (AUFX, MasterFx) that a lot of people use pretty frequently... and of course the DAWs.

    I saw some data several years back that indicated that the gender split was more equal on acoustic instruments, and more male-heavy on electric and electronic music. If this is still true, and the broader (non-iOS) world of synths, electronic drums and guitar effects is predominantly male, then it stands to reason the same would be true on iOS. In which case it'd be more interesting to look at the gender split of iOS acoustic (sampled) instruments to see if the gender equality in the non-iOS world carries forward to iOS or not (I'm guessing not).

    @MusicInclusive, from your description of your daughter's vs sons' musical interests, it's clear that she is more interested in acoustic instruments than electric or electronic. If so, she might find something like iGrand interesting since it offers a portable piano experience. You didn't mention what kind of VSTs she uses but I assume they are along the lines of compression, EQ, reverb etc to shape the acoustic-instrument recordings - in which case AUFX and MasterFx might be interesting to her (as well as one of the DAWs). It'd probably be far easier to sell her on those - iOS versions of things she's already using - rather than try to get her to embrace a category (synths) that she doesn't already care for in the non-iOS world.

  • I don't wish to offend but as this is a forum which thrives on personal opinions, I'll give mine. This is my view of the evidence...

    Women are generally not interested in 'gadgets' to the same extent as men. 'Boys' toys' are so-called because chaps like their gadgets! The majority of gadgetty marketing is aimed at blokes too. Men in the main are still the chief breadwinners in the western world.

    The traditional path for women involves nesting and nurturing, less selfish perhaps than composing music on an iPad. Now I'm not saying men are selfish and women are not, but making music is really, now I think about it, a largely selfish pursuit. Maybe this comes into it.

    Now my good lady spends about three hours a day on Facebook - most of the time perusing rather than contributing. Buried in her phone. By comparison I fill my time with more interactive pursuits - videogames, music production, writing - but I do not know any other women who do any of those things. They are, as much as I can ascertain, all members of gyms and much more likely to read a book than write a piece of music. More likely to view a forum than participate in it. So I bet there are loads of women who look at this forum and who dabble in iOS music, and I reckon for one reason or another they choose not to put themselves out there.

    So... What this leads me to is an avenue of thought that gender comes into it a little - we are different creatures generally - but mainly I think it is more about the type of people we are. We are creatives, not passives. Our consumption of products is a means to creating our own. We are inspired by all around us and I reckon many of us on here are easily drawn into deep thought, and pretty sensitive. That goes for both sexes of course.

    Going back to the gym comment, again this doesn't mean to strike a whopping generalisation - just my own experience of the ladies in my life and peripheral to it. Ultimately, I suppose I'm drawn to one more opinion - that the majority of songwriters might be men. Perhaps that is all it is...

  • I am female, but I really do not see how gender matters in this context.

  • We had a poll that included gender. 1 female participated. Oh, and a cat...

    http://forum.audiob.us/discussion/3234/more-polls/p1

  • @MoonWolf The thing that disappoints me so much on this subject is the fact I see it on a daily basis. It's just so frustrating to see it practically everywhere and know that nothing can be done about it, at least for now. I have a feeling this indifference will continue for a while. @Rhism About a quarter of the school plays a traditional instrument through the district's band or orchestra program, which is really high, but only a very small number of people actually go somewhere with it. Many are just doing it for their fine arts credit required for graduation. They also have little to no interest in writing their own music. I really don't know where the next generation of music makers will come from, but hopefully something will change.

  • I think if Audiobus was setup in a Facebook format, you would probably see more female participation. If you look at the ipad musician FB page, you will see more female participation. Although I think it has more to do with FB exposure than anything.

  • @Rhism - I was using synth to describe all iOS music apps that generate sound.

    @skogredd - gender only matters insofar as it'd be good to encourage equal participation as in other branches of music. That was the intent of my original pondering. I do sincerely hope you were not offended at the question. No offense was intended - rather the opposite - to encourage more involvement equally among the genders esp. in iOS music production where it seems to be underrepresented and keep the music going with whoever participates in it :-)

    @Rhism (again :-) ) My daughter is involved in professional quality music production. She already holds a Master Certificate from Berklee in Orchestration for Film and TV for example. Her use of VSTs in composition largely involves classical instruments for that kind of instrumentation vs. synth VSTs - to be sure - but is definitely not simply a matter of EQ or compression. She does use synth VSTs when desired - so - I don't think it's a matter of classical vs. synth. I think it's more a matter of seeing the usefulness of the iPad interface and not feeling that it's "fiddly" or "not a real instrument". (BTW: It is interesting if you listen to film music just how much is still based around a classical orchestra though). I think she might regard iGrand as a toy. The thinking would be: why use iGrand when she can play a real grand piano?

    I have iGrand, but I don't use it very much. For piano I use a Fantom X8 keyboard which has a very nice selection of grand sounds - or VSTs - or an actual piano. I do use lots of synths on the iPad though.

    I think I'd rather promote the unique character of iOS synths - esp. the tactile facilitation of the iPad interface in apps such as Animoog, Nave, and many others - over replicating traditional classical or other instruments - not that there's anything wrong with that, just comparitively. I like iFretless bass too for example, but that does indeed use the iPad interface in a very interesting and suitable way.

    @AQ808 - Not sure about the cost issue. Yes, new iPads can be expensive, but I've recently purchased another mini for music production specifically initially for someone to use Korg Gadget on (yup!) and I picked that up from CowBoom for $199 as a deal of the day. When you consider that some people - young people - spend that much on a phone these days or a couple of pairs of brand sneakers - I'm not sure that's the reason. It's more to do with motivation. Having said that there are probably many millions who can't afford to spend money on an iPad - even a 2nd hand or refurb one - even if they have a computer already.

  • I think that this instant gratification, move on to the next big thing a day after the last big thing was released, attitude plays a big part.

    Some people either don't see an iPad as a legitimate musical instrument, or they are just too busy with their lives to learn something new.

    I think it also takes a certain level of technological savyness to really get the most of using an iPad as a musical instrument. I play guitar so when I got loopy, I wanted to use it hands free. I went on craigslist and found a FBC1010 for $75, got a CCK, and used my Axiom 25 as a midi interface.

    People are not as willing to put in that sort of time and effort into it. My wife would not, which is not a bad thing, it is just a difference between how our minds work.

    If there was a complete package, no brainer setup, that was available to purchase, complete with audio interface, foot pedal, keyboard, pads, knobs, faders, instructional videos, a quick start guide, and whatever else you could think of people would be more into it. Some people don't want to have to think about how it works. The people that think like my wife, which is not a bad thing, would be more into it.

  • @AQ808 - I have another thought about Android. I think - it does seem to be so reading other comments, blogs, news pages etc. on other sites - that there is often a very wide divide between Android users and iOS users - often with a chip-on-the-shoulder "mine is just better" attitude.

    Whenever I see such posts I do try and comment on how impossible it is generally speaking to do any real music production work on Android - and that iOS provides the only viable portable platform excluding Windoze tablets. Not only that, but there is a really spectacular number of wonderful synths and other music apps available for iOS. I generally mention Android latency. I wrote recently on a news site - listed off the apps you could purchase for iOS and some patently uninformed person said "I can buy all those for Android too" Wow. I replied "Show me where on the Google play site and I'll go purchase today!". There are a small handful that approach usability on Android - Caustic, Nodebeat - a few others, but nothing that I can use in the same way as on iOS.

    I think part of the problem here is that Android users feel they have many other advantages over iOS users in terms of flexibility and so on with Android that they don't see the wood for the trees. The whole "my OS is better than your OS" war - based on the OS, not the apps that run on the OS. The only way to overcome that is to demonstrate iOS in use to such folks - the budding musicians among them anyway - and see their eyes open. People also say: "But serious musicians don't use iPads!" - at which point I usually drop Jordan Rudess' name in the conversation :-)

    I have used and do use a variety of OS's. I have been a Linux user since '93 - other proprietary OS flavors of UNIX before and after that - as well as embedded systems, DOS, Windoze, MacOS, Android, iOS, RSTS-E, Primos even! Each had their place. Windoze and MacOS still have their place high in my music making workflow. Android never has apart from using TouchDAW. iOS does of course too now. I'd rather not use Windoze, but there are VSTs available for it that are not available for MacOS. Yes - that does indicate choices made via an OS preference sometimes but based on real provision in the OS and / or problems with the given OS. I am a Linux die-hard - but I don't generally use Linux for music production - though I have dabbled in that. As an OS it has many other advantages over Windoze and MacOS, but the apps and workflow I want and need are found primarily on MacOS, Windoze and iOS. Why? Because I want to make music! (Not fight an OS war :-) )

    So, maybe, just maybe, a little user education on the existence of iOS apps that isn't focused on the community in an albeit good but self-feeding way - might be the answer there. Wonder how we could all go about that more... Hmmm....

  • @skogredd said:

    I am female, but I really do not see how gender matters in this context.

    Agreed.

    That said, diverse communities are resilient communities (not to mention more fun) and we're not at all gender diverse here. And since you can't just put a sign on the Audiobus Forum door that says "Women Wanted" or "Latinos Wanted", discussing it and understanding why seems like a good idea.

  • @MusicInclusive Interesting comment wrt why use iGrand when I can use a real piano (or a Fantom X8, or VSTs). The main draw is price and portability - just add a MIDI keyboard and you have everything you need, plus it's easy to stow away when you have guests coming over for dinner. This perhaps won't mean much to someone who already has a full-blown studio setup in a dedicated room with the hardware and PC and speakers and cables all set up just right etc. For such cases you're right that the iPad would only be really interesting for the iOS-only experiences like Animoog and Nave etc. But it's probably a stretch to sell someone on iOS just on the strength of a handful of iOS-only synth experiences, especially if that someone isn't heavily into synths in the first place. As the platform matures more of these iOS-only experiences will pop up, and slowly make the platform harder and harder to ignore.

    That said, I recall a "why do we love iOS" thread here a while ago where price and mobility were two of the most common factors cited. So for the larger community of musicians who don't have a full-blown studio setup, there are many more reasons to go iOS than just the purely iOS-only apps. And within that larger set of people, we would hope to see a more proportional gender split than we have on this forum.

    Like @mgmg4871 said, the FB iPad Musicians group has a far higher proportion of active participation from women than here. Their most-recently-anointed admin is a woman, and she's one of the best and most-respected admins on there right now. It's not an age differnce - everyone there seems about as old as everyone here. I personally think it has something to do with the the default "no anonymity" expectations of anything on Facebook, though it may be something totally different. But it does indicate that the active population on this forum doesn't accurately represent the true gender split in the world of iOS music app enthusiasts.

  • edited January 2014

    @Rhism said:

    @MusicInclusive Interesting comment wrt why use iGrand when I can use a real piano (or a Fantom X8, or VSTs). The main draw is price and portability - just add a MIDI keyboard and you have everything you need, plus it's easy to stow away when you have guests coming over for dinner.

    You are right of course - and if one wanted a very decent piano sound on an iPad - I agree entirely with the portability aspect.

    This perhaps won't mean much to someone who already has a full-blown studio setup in a dedicated room with the hardware and PC and speakers and cables all set up just right etc. For such cases you're right that the iPad would only be really interesting for the iOS-only experiences like Animoog and Nave etc.

    I actually use iPads in the studio and for portability - but - again you have a good point. But, also, even in a studio environment for more than just the iOS-specific/facilitated features - the incredible value for money and stunning quality of synths like iMS-20, iPolysix, iSEM, iMini and others that emulate existing excellent but expensive and often vintage syth technology.

    That said, I recall a "why do we love iOS" thread here a while ago where price and mobility were two of the most common factors cited. So for the larger community of musicians who don't have a full-blown studio setup, there are many more reasons to go iOS than just the purely iOS-only apps. And within that larger set of people, we would hope to see a more proportional gender split than we have on this forum.

    Indeed - agree.

    Like @mgmg4871 said, the FB iPad Musicians group has a far higher proportion of active participation from women than here. Their most-recently-anointed admin is a woman, and she's one of the best and most-respected admins on there right now. It's not an age differnce - everyone there seems about as old as everyone here. I personally think it has something to do with the the default "no anonymity" expectations of anything on Facebook, though it may be something totally different. But it does indicate that the active population on this forum doesn't accurately represent the true gender split in the world of iOS music app enthusiasts.

    Fair observation about the FB group - I wasn't on that but I've just hit the join button. Having said that - I still wonder why not here in the AB forums.

  • Another thought - I just spoke with my daughter - the composer - and what we discovered as we talked together was an almost 180 degree difference in some aspects of the generative process. Not that there was not overlap - and not that each of us did not sometimes think the same way about music creation as the other, but, for her, the process of scoring is largely driven by seeing a film and then choosing an instrument and instruments in combination from a portfolio, often orchestral, to fit. The same thing with independent song composition. The song, in the musical aspects of it - not lyrics - mostly comes first.

    Often my generative process is driven by discovering new sounds, timbres, tones, sweeps, pads, sequences and it further evoking an idea for a song or a section of a song that may have only been larval previously.

    Not to say I don't also start out with a song idea - or a larger composition idea as well and choose instruments to suit - I do that too. But, the "playing in the sandbox" aspect of working with synths in general - analog and virtual analog in particular - has often led my creative process as I'm sure it has others' .

    So, I asked - what about choosing sounds that are non-orchestral - how would you make the decision if you haven't been exposed to a larger portfolio? (She has - by many and various means, but I was positing a hypothetical). Interesting answer - the explorative process would occur for her then at the time of need. To me that's more limiting - in the sense that you haven't got so much breadth to choose from. OTOH, it allows more focus and perhaps detail to occur and perhaps more rapidly achieve a specific goal.

    So - there you have it.

    I doubt that's particularly gender-related. More to do with how one has explored the structure of music generation (she has formal classical training [I do too but less than her]).

  • @MusicInclusive Very interesting to hear this perspective! Just from my own personal experiences, I'm a musician who doesn't care for synths at all (and my wallet thanks me!). I primarily focus my songwriting on the musical aspects (chords, melody, structures, lyrics) and the sound is subservient to that. In general I find the sound-design aspect of music to feel more like engineering/technical/"left-brain" than art/creative/"right-brain", so I try to stay away from it when I'm trying to write.

  • @rhism. You still need plenty of creativity to come up with interesting sounds. Sound design certainly is an art. It isn't necessarily tech stuff. For some it is though. Giving a few tools, certain persons will come up with more ways to use theses tools (even beyond the original idea of theses tools) than others. I think there's also creativity there. Thinking outside the box.

  • @paradiddle Absolutely, and I think this speaks to the diverse nature of music and musicians. For me part of the problem is that I don't really understand how synths work, which knobs do what etc... so it feels like a very alien system that I'd have to spend time to figure out and understand before I can use it fluently - and that fluency is critical to the creative process.

  • edited January 2014

    @Rhism said:

    @MusicInclusive Very interesting to hear this perspective! Just from my own personal experiences, I'm a musician who doesn't care for synths at all (and my wallet thanks me!). I primarily focus my songwriting on the musical aspects (chords, melody, structures, lyrics) and the sound is subservient to that. In general I find the sound-design aspect of music to feel more like engineering/technical/"left-brain" than art/creative/"right-brain", so I try to stay away from it when I'm trying to write.

    Interesting. When I'm working with or exploring the creation of music that has more initial musical structure in my mind - chords, melody, lyrics - then I almost always compose at a keyboard - usually a piano keyboard - whether virtual or real, or on a guitar. When I'm exploring sound and atmosphere and flow I'll work more with synths or other more fluid instruments that lead to the structure as an evolving and developing piece of music.

    I don't think it's an either or for any of us.

  • @Rhism said:

    @paradiddle Absolutely, and I think this speaks to the diverse nature of music and musicians. For me part of the problem is that I don't really understand how synths work, which knobs do what etc... so it feels like a very alien system that I'd have to spend time to figure out and understand before I can use it fluently - and that fluency is critical to the creative process.

    One of the reasons that MusicInclusive LLC runs courses on analog synthesis ;-)

  • @paradiddle said:

    @rhism. You still need plenty of creativity to come up with interesting sounds. Sound design certainly is an art. It isn't necessarily tech stuff. For some it is though. Giving a few tools, certain persons will come up with more ways to use theses tools (even beyond the original idea of theses tools) than others. I think there's also creativity there. Thinking outside the box.

    Right - I agree.

    I am both a consumer of and generator of sounds. As a generator of sounds, MusicInclusive LLC is currently in the process of completing a set of 100 patches for the Moog Little Phatty Stage II for example - on sale shortly hopefully (and we have some in plan for the MicroKorg and the Roland Gaia as well). As a consumer, I have also just recently purchased a set of patches for the Arturia V suite of synth emulations for Windoze and MacOS and have purchased sound packs and the like for many iOS synths too.

    By background I am an Electronic Engineer. I often joke and say: "Here I am - an engineer - and I've raised a family of artists!" - but I'm also an artist (musically speaking) and I find the creative process of patch design and sound design uses more of the artistic side than the engineering side, though, because I do understand the physics and the engineering and acoustics of the sound and the waveforms and the electronics and all that goes into the design, and, as Uncle Bob said more than once - someone with that bent can visualize what's going on in the circuits to some extent - I find it helpful to apply an "engineering" thinking to the process too as I design the sound. E.g. I think about and visualize the cutoff dB per octave and the envelope and what it's doing to the waveform. I sometimes scope up the waveforms I'm generating and adjust not only by ear but by visual inspection and somtimes applying some math to reduce unwanted harmonics for example. I don't do that however (at least not consciously) when I'm writing music.

  • edited January 2014

    @musicinclusive I started playing drums way before I got an interest in synth/fx in general. I've always had a computer though since I'm a kid so learning tech stuff is somewhat easier for me than for some who are introduced to tech stuff later on in the musical life. I had an old simmons sds-9. That got me into learning how midi. The atari ST got me into learning midi sequencers in general.

    I think you have to learn somehow a bit of synth theory or dwelve into tech stuff a bit to really know what you wanna do to sound as a sound designer or else it's just random know twiddling which sometimes works (minimoog for instance) but there are cases where you definitely need to understand what's happening if you want results. (moog modular for instance). Similar to what you said about engineering circuits for sound.

    The personal computer by itself as certainly brought tech knowledge to musicians in general (for me it did) and that you somehow learn some of it with time even though you might have not interest in it.

    @rhism Absolutely! I guess it depends on where you interest lies. There might be a point where you generate an interest for synths or whatever cuz you might need some of it in your songs. I for one didn't care much about playing keyboards until I really started playing with bands and playing structured tunes/learning harmony. Playing keys then also led me to synths/synthesis. I'm much more of a drummer but I like keys and I also play a bit of trumpet.

  • edited January 2014

    Coming back to topic! I guess it's been always like that. The music forums seems to be male predominantly. I don't know why. Never really gave it that much of a though. I'm usually there to exchange musical tips and learn new stuff.

    The only thing I noticed is when a female musician shows up, Lots of guys all get gooey and super friendly/attentive towards the girl. Hahaha.

    Music has no color or gender! The best form of communication ever!

  • edited January 2014

    @MusicInclusive said:

    @AQ808 - I have another thought about Android. I think - it does seem to be so reading other comments, blogs, news pages etc. on other sites - that there is often a very wide divide between Android users and iOS users - often with a chip-on-the-shoulder "mine is just better" attitude.

    So, maybe, just maybe, a little user education on the existence of iOS apps that isn't focused on the community in an albeit good but self-feeding way - might be the answer there. Wonder how we could all go about that more... Hmmm....

    I used to entertain such thoughts, but now they just strike me as such a "bikeshed" that I just stay away from them.

    I'm just at the point where I'd rather spend mental energy working on and thinking about making music, rather than "community building", or "unknowingly participating in free marketting for mega corporations".

    As a musician, I really don't care if other people make music or not. If it is who they are, then that is what they'll be with or without my intervention.

    But seeing as you are an engineer and sound designer, I can see why the community aspect might be more significant to you, especially if you really want your sounds used.

    At this point, I'm just happy that there is enough market participation on music apps on iOS that we are slowly getting some phenomenal software and capabilities.

    Regarding android, a few years ago a friend got a Motorola droid issued to him by his work. Prior to this, I had used Linux since 2004 (Fedora then Ubuntu).

    At that time, he kept on trying to start wars with me saying BSD was better (probably FreeBSD, I can't remember). I asked him what he was using BSD for, and he told me "an IRC server". I'm like, "ok, I use Linux as a desktop to surf, use inkscape, and manage documents… managing a BSD install for that rather than Ubuntu which is ready out of the gate seems like a ridiculous waste of time to me".

    So then he gets the droid while I had just got my first idevice (3GS), and I was joking, "hey, I thought I was supposed to be the Linux guy and you were supposed to be the BSD guy!"

    He didn't get it…

    I can't even grasp the degree of low information bikeshedding/time-wasting that guy did when I was his friend. I was 31 and he was 24 at the time.

  • edited January 2014

    @MusicInclusive:
    I like what you've said about your daughter and grand piano. I have quite a lot of contact with 'real world' musicians (being one myself) and whenever I mention ipad as an instrument I'm treated with a slight grin. I think it is mostly due to the fact that ipad is somewhere in between the already established computer production and also already established 'real' acoustic music.
    I play quite a few acoustic instruments but I'm drawn to ios because of my songwriting/composing angle but also for practical reasons. For most part however ios still suffers from it being an antisocial (headphones on) type of activity as it is still quite hard to engage in jams with 'acousic' without hassle.
    Sorry this one was off topic, really. An interesting discussion in itself though.

  • edited January 2014

    @AQ808:
    Don't forget that we're all different and some people actually enjoy fiddling with software. I remember trying to go the linux way myself. I installed Ubuntu on one of my window laptops thinking I'm going to discover new ways etc. unfortunately it was just too fiddly. Then when I switched to osx I realized just how fiddly windows was. It's almost like being English and having to learn another language when pretty much everybody else on the planet already uses it and you can easily communicate with them. There is another thread on this forum about korg gadget vs caustic. Well, it was gadget all the way for me because I'm all about making music and not programming sounds even though I find that aspect interesting too just got no time for it.
    Saying that I think us human beings, especially male, like that kind of kids playground competition often at a cost of losing sight of the real objective. What is the real objective anyway? :)

  • Forgive me because I'm at work and didn't have time to read all the posts but I want to comment on the Android vs iOS argument...

    I disagree with this; it's not younger people that can't afford iPads, there are thousands (if not millions) of families that simply cannot afford an iPad. I'm not a fanboy of either, as I equally love both my Android phone and my iPad. I'm not sure about other countries but the US is working its way out of a recession where thousands of people lost jobs, their homes, and etc and when it comes down to it $499 isn't pocket change, to me anyway. I bought my iPad for $120 and repaired the broken digitizer myself, which is the only reason I own one, because it would've been out of my range otherwise.

    Don't get me wrong they are fantastic devices and to neither Android or iOS is superior/inferior to the other. I will always own an Android phone, simply because I can do far more things on it than even a jailbroken iPhone can (lack of file system, locked down, proprietary, etc). Not a knock at Apple because that's there market, they close it down to the point "John Doe" can pick up the device and pretty much operate it without hurting things. Android is a little more complex and takes a bit of learning. The biggest thing I believe that hurts Android is this, I could build a phone in my basement and put the Android OS on it and sell it. People walk into stores and can't afford an iPhone so they say "I'll buy this Android phone for $60 and be good to go." Yet they expect it to operate like the far more expensive iPhone. If they were to have bought an Android phone comparable to the iPhone, price and feature-wise, they would run into those issue. They then get frustrated go and buy an iPhone, love it and never trust Android again.

    Sorry it's so long I just hate when this discussion starts, both OS's have pro's and con's to them...

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