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Comments
@JMSexton I have purchased just one iPad "new" and that was on the recent Target trade in deal. I had an iPad 1 16 that I paid $220 for 2nd hand from Cowboom - 2nd user and significantly below cost even then. I traded it in for $200 against an iPad mini 16. Other than that, any other iPads have all been Cowboom 2nd user purchases for significantly less than cost. Even for my company! I have only ever purchased iPads for music production - nothing else! (not to say I don't use them for other things once acquired of course…)
I also own a couple of iPhones that I paid $0 for and $0.99 for respectively as part of a.) a phone upgrade from a flip-phone. b.) take out a 2nd line and get an iPhone "free".
Now, I admit I'm unusual in owning more than one iPad device for music production perhaps, but even so, it's quite possible to own a great quality 2nd-user iPad for roughly the same price as an Android tablet. Sure - you won't get the latest for that, but I still use another iPad 1 for music production. I originally bought an iPad 1 solely for running the iMS-20 app on. Still works on that just fine! As does Audiobus and Cubasis - so, even on an iPad 1 I can still record. Just brought up iMS-20 -> Cubasis on it. Yup - still works! (as do a number of other synths on iOS 5 just fine)
No - it's not my only iOS recording scenario - and it has limitations of course, but, it still works … well! For more recently released synths I use more modern devices running either iOS 6 or 7.
These days you can get an iPad 1 16 for about $150 2nd-hand from Cowboom. (And, no, if anyone's wondering, I have no affiliation with them - just a satisfied customer! :-) )
Each device has been specified as "may have some scratches on the case" but I've yet to receive a device from them that shows any signs of scratches whatsoever. They just cover themselves. You have to buy a "rating 5" or above though to really ensure that.
The pro for iOS is - you can make music on it using a wide variety of wonderful synth apps - we all know this or we wouldn't be here! :-)
The con for Android is - you can't!
And - yes - I own Android devices as well as I said above.
@supadom It's interesting that you put 'real world' musicians in quotes. I regard iOS musicians as real world musicians. The iPad is just one more instrument - and for some - like Clif at Apptronica - his only current instrument I believe.
I think what I was proposing above was that we need to "get that word out". It's just like in days past people thought of DAW-bound musicians as somehow not 'real musicians' - but there has been a whole host of music produced that way that is successful in the current music scene.
@AQ808 The point is - making music! :-) and - of course - the point of the post was - with everyone involved equally represented. Oh - and - let's not forget - Audiobus has made a lot more possible than we could have dreamed of even. Kudos team!
@MusicInclusive
I put real musicians in quotes exactly for that reason. Just try reading it without quotes.
@JMSexton said:
I use my ipad for music (low latency, app selection) and android for everything else. Upgrading to latest ipad is cheap once you've made the original investment as they retain their value better than others.
@supadom - I understand and agree. My followup point is simply that because that perception exists it does and will take work to demonstrate to 'real world' musicians that iOS music making is just as 'real world'
I know you agree
;-)
Back to the topic - I've had an idea! :-)
Maybe I should run a MusicInclusive free seminar for local schools on "using iOS in music production". Would be interesting to see if the uptake of interest among both boys and girls looks more equal then.
@MusicInclusive said:> @AQ808 The point is - making music! :-) and - of course - the point of the post was - with everyone involved equally represented. Oh - and - let's not forget - Audiobus has made a lot more possible than we could have dreamed of even. Kudos team!
"Equally represented"? That's just weird to me. This is a casual forum, not a hall of government.
The topic, Audiobus, is self selecting, if you have serious knowledge or access to it, and actually use it (owning an app and using an app are very different things), you'd probably be here no matter who you are.
Besides that, all we do here is talk about what new music-making apps are coming out and whether they use audiobus or not.
I will find the most value of commentary from someone who is here because they self-selected that they have an interest in this topic, no matter who they are from any place on the globe.
But, that said, this thread has definitely gotten way too far into bikeshed territory for me. Have fun!
@AQ808 said:
That would be weird if I was talking about people representing others. Not what I meant though. Rather - people representing themselves - here - by participating.
So when you say...
... I agree with that. And - back to the topic again - it just seemed that the gender bias in using iOS synths et al. (esp. here in the Audiobus forums) was predominantly male and I was wondering why compared to other branches of music production. :-)
Alongside that - whether there was an in-built reason for that - i.e. does the use of iPads to make music have a particular attraction to men-folk? If so - why - compared to other branches of music making? Also, if so, is that something that could/should be helped to change.
Is all :-)
So, total bikeshed, right?
This is not a gentalmans club where no women are allowed. Simply there's not as many women wanting to fiddle with or talk about music apps/production etc. Expecting high female participation would be like expecting more men joining knitting circles. Clearly interest is paramount and I wouldn't stress about it too much.
@supadom - But - I do wonder why? And, being interested in and participating in music education, it does interest me in case there's something to do to change it up. (Not stressed though ;-) )
@MusicInclusive said:
Cool
@musicinclusive
I am a female beatmaker. I love (amongst other things) gadgets, making beats on iOS and I use Audiobus,etc...
Please see my post for a partial description of my 'Music Tech History' (if you like)...
Your opinion seems generalised in places because it is possible all female iOS users maybe don't have the time, confidence or can't be bothered to come onto this forum. Also I am adamant many browse but do not join (for various reasons).
Of course, I could be wrong, but I base my opinion on the observation that with Garage Band (& so many other free iOS /mobile beat making apps) being so cheap (or free with iPad Air), surely many females are at least 'Having a go - Just for fun!' Aren't they?
As the popularity of iOS and mobile music making continues to climb, if females are 'hiding & honing their 'MMM' skills (on their BF's beloved Gadget), banging out those beats on the desktop, or choose the traditional instrument route,' some how, some day - very soon, all of them will be truly enlightened by the sheer power and convenience of 'MMM' (as we all are / have been too). Even if it is via a 3rd party.
However, having said all that, I do understand some of the issues that you mentioned.
NB: I'm currently in love...with Korg Gadget...Lol,jk!
Peace!
An super-interesting data point: ever since I made guitarism free, the support emails I've been getting have been about 50-50 from men vs women. Before I made it free, over 90% of support requests were from men.
This supports @Diversetfb1's comment that many women are at least 'having a go' on the free apps, even if they might not consider themselves serious enough to want to spend money on this stuff.
@Rhism. I'm a bass player self taught and never bothered to learn chord structure efficiently enough to be functional at guitar. I decided to "have a go" at your app and am very pleased. I'm sure that I'll purchase some add ons given the fun I've had with it so far.
It is a great composition tool and not so complicated that it sucks the fun out of the process.
Off topic I know but just wanted to take the opportunity. Thanks. True to topic: what the heck is bikeshedding?
The girls are out there and interested... ages 13-17 slightly have the highest percentage of likes on my music charity page... a page I don't keep up with daily like I used to. I still donate instruments but just don't social media it as much... most donations I have made in the past year go to girls ages 6-16. It seems girls have the interest they just need someone to give them the instrument/app, some encouragement, and a proper lesson. Men are targeted as a "play music/get girls" or with the hopes of getting GAS to keep those dollars rollin in.... yep the world of music is in a sad state from top to bottom.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=454146981352400&set=a.316182971815469.55671.264130280354072&type=1&theater
It's a term that AQ808 applies to any in depth discussion point he isn't interested in talking about, but others are...
This thread is sooo Feb. 1st.
Bikeshed City™
Lol
@PaulB. Thanks for clarifying. Knew I could count on you. Ischemia, is that yours?
No, what is it, other than a restricted blood supply?
Someone posted a song called Ischemia a while back. Paul Beechum maybe? Or maybe it's just restricted blood supply.
Not me. I'm not aware of such a song. Sorry.
I am a lady and it's true the only reason I got an iPad is because my boyfriend bought a new one and sold me his old one on the cheaps. Coming from a heavy instrument background it was difficult at first to figure out how to marry the 2. At first I thought of it as a toy. Finding controllers I like as well as an interface to run keys & vox through was game changing for me. But holy shit... Remember the days of lugging a million keyboards and pedals to shows? Over. The days of lusting after unaffordable synths... Done. There's no reason that girls shouldn't be just as into this as boys. It's a mystery to meeee.
I'm joining this old thread as it covers a topic which is extremely relevant to my current academic research which also looks at female representation in the communities of mobile musicians. So thanks Derek @MusicInclusive for starting this thread.
In a few days, I’ll be presenting a research paper at the MusicaFemina Symposium in Budapest and would like to invite female music makers to participate in a short survey on their creative process, perception of female agency and perspectives on mobile music making.
If you are interested in helping this project, here's the survey link: https://forms.gle/XTkWP4H5StbDhPh89
‘Males’ and ‘females’? Bit limiting, isn’t it?
My observations lead me to an entirely different conclusion.
Seems that some of the most exciting and talented electronic music artists in recent years are female e.g. Chagall, Rachel K Collier, Caterina Barbieri as well as veterans Imogen Heap, Suzanne Ciani and Eliane Radigue.
There is no innate gender difference when it comes to interest, talent, creativity etc. The main differences, as is so often the case, is to do with opportunity and women seeking equality in a male-dominated industry and break through the glass ceiling in doing so. I’ll go as far as to say that many female artists coming through are outshining their male counterparts for the simple reason that women have to face so much BS that men are not subjected to, and have to fight harder to be taken seriously and end up with a cutting edge as a result.
Have a look at the Ableton Loop lineup, for example. Seems they are doing a lot to try to reassess gender imbalance in electronic music.
That’s the music industry though, and maybe it doesn’t apply so much in the world of causal music making, which I guess many of us are in?
These are my observations and conclusions. I’ve been feeling this for quite some time about gender balance in electronic music (and I’m male btw).
Wouldn't it also be helpful for you to find out the percentage of men and women making mobile music? My impression the majority of users in this forum are men above 40... maybe higher. I love to find out the numbers 🙂
Yes definitely. I have reached out to a few admins running various Facebook groups focusing on mobile music gear. I have to say though, while I got quite a few replies to the questionnaire from users, I couldn't convince any of the admins to tell me about the percentage of men and women in their groups (and that was the only bit of statistical data I was after)...