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New Jazz Drummer from Lumbeat on its way...

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Comments

  • RajahPRajahP

    New Vid.. looks and sounds great..

    https://t.co/YfdRCDawyo

  • lukesleepwalkerlukesleepwalker

    Dang, that sounds sweet. Some of those accents are spot on, eh? I hope finished in time to go under the tree!

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    Looks like this will end up intercepting my Drambo funds.

  • Telstar5Telstar5
    edited November 2019

    @McD said:
    That's Tony Williams image in the product announcement. He was the 17 year old drummer that played
    in the Miles Davis' 2nd Great Quartet from '62 to '68.

    He took the polyrhythmic ideas of Elvin Jones to new levels of 4 limb independence. His jazz style was
    features a roaring with hand ride cymbal contrasted with complex linear lines from his snare/bass drum/hi-hat. This style is unmistakable as "Jazz".

    Tony went on to innovate these polyrhythmic ideas against the straight eight style of the Jazz Fusion era
    that followed his departure from Mile's group. Mile (always the innovator) took the same turn towards combining the innovations of Jimi Hendrix with the improvisations of jazz players. Over-driven guitar was the key to the transition.

    I'm expecting Luis Martinez will synthesize the polyrhythm elements of the early Tony Williams style. For all the earlier players he will just need to reduce the number of notes per bar in the patterns.

    For anyone that likes this style of drumming this will be a truly innovative type of Drum Machine if it doesn't repeat itself in any obvious ways. Taking the swing out of the playing with MIDI quantize will also create some interesting Fusion Drum Styles that have no persistent backbeat in the patterns or even regular accent patterns which is the hall mark of funk and prog rock. It's the main reason no one dances to this style of jazz... they can't figure out where "one" is.

     Your statement about “taking the polyrhythmic ideas of Elvin Jones to new levels of 4 limb Independence”  is entirely Inaccurate. Elvin’s concept was based on triplets. There is some Max, Blakey and Philly  Joe Jones and even Roy Haynes in Tony’s style who he emulated as a youth but Elvin and Tony’s drumming concepts are completely divergent. He was not influenced by Elvin’s style At ALL . Here’s an example of me utilizing Ekvin’s concepts which I studied enthusiastically as a youth ..

  • TickletigerTickletiger

    @Telstar5 said:

    @McD said:
    That's Tony Williams image in the product announcement. He was the 17 year old drummer that played
    in the Miles Davis' 2nd Great Quartet from '62 to '68.

    He took the polyrhythmic ideas of Elvin Jones to new levels of 4 limb independence. His jazz style was
    features a roaring with hand ride cymbal contrasted with complex linear lines from his snare/bass drum/hi-hat. This style is unmistakable as "Jazz".

    Tony went on to innovate these polyrhythmic ideas against the straight eight style of the Jazz Fusion era
    that followed his departure from Mile's group. Mile (always the innovator) took the same turn towards combining the innovations of Jimi Hendrix with the improvisations of jazz players. Over-driven guitar was the key to the transition.

    I'm expecting Luis Martinez will synthesize the polyrhythm elements of the early Tony Williams style. For all the earlier players he will just need to reduce the number of notes per bar in the patterns.

    For anyone that likes this style of drumming this will be a truly innovative type of Drum Machine if it doesn't repeat itself in any obvious ways. Taking the swing out of the playing with MIDI quantize will also create some interesting Fusion Drum Styles that have no persistent backbeat in the patterns or even regular accent patterns which is the hall mark of funk and prog rock. It's the main reason no one dances to this style of jazz... they can't figure out where "one" is.

     Your statement about “taking the polyrhythmic ideas of Elvin Jones to new levels of 4 limb Independence”  is entirely Inaccurate. Elvin’s concept was based on triplets. There is some Max, Blakey and Philly  Joe Jones and even Roy Haynes in Tony’s style who he emulated as a youth but Elvin and Tony’s drumming concepts are completely divergent. He was not influenced by Elvin’s style At ALL . Here’s an example of me utilizing Ekvin’s concepts which I studied enthusiastically as a youth ..

    Thanks, great playing. Do you come in an iOS app version?

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @Telstar5 said:

    @McD said:
    That's Tony Williams image in the product announcement. He was the 17 year old drummer that played
    in the Miles Davis' 2nd Great Quartet from '62 to '68.

    He took the polyrhythmic ideas of Elvin Jones to new levels of 4 limb independence. His jazz style was
    features a roaring with hand ride cymbal contrasted with complex linear lines from his snare/bass drum/hi-hat. This style is unmistakable as "Jazz".

    Tony went on to innovate these polyrhythmic ideas against the straight eight style of the Jazz Fusion era
    that followed his departure from Mile's group. Mile (always the innovator) took the same turn towards combining the innovations of Jimi Hendrix with the improvisations of jazz players. Over-driven guitar was the key to the transition.

    I'm expecting Luis Martinez will synthesize the polyrhythm elements of the early Tony Williams style. For all the earlier players he will just need to reduce the number of notes per bar in the patterns.

    For anyone that likes this style of drumming this will be a truly innovative type of Drum Machine if it doesn't repeat itself in any obvious ways. Taking the swing out of the playing with MIDI quantize will also create some interesting Fusion Drum Styles that have no persistent backbeat in the patterns or even regular accent patterns which is the hall mark of funk and prog rock. It's the main reason no one dances to this style of jazz... they can't figure out where "one" is.

     Your statement about “taking the polyrhythmic ideas of Elvin Jones to new levels of 4 limb Independence”  is entirely Inaccurate. Elvin’s concept was based on triplets. There is some Max, Blakey and Philly  Joe Jones and even Roy Haynes in Tony’s style who he emulated as a youth but Elvin and Tony’s drumming concepts are completely divergent. He was not influenced by Elvin’s style At ALL . Here’s an example of me utilizing Ekvin’s concepts which I studied enthusiastically as a youth ..

    Nice playing! You sure can swing.

  • eustressoreustressor

    @White said:

    Oh, I missed that! Very awesome when it spreads out to his other kit/apps. I wonder if we’ll be able to sequence cymbal hits (crash/crash2/splash/choke) soon ... someday ... would be quite handy for me :smile:

  • ExAsperis99ExAsperis99

    It really does. Although, like the other Lumbeat apps, I assume it won't be AU. Which is not really a deal breaker for me. But while I love the grooves I can get in Future Drummer great, the kits in FD really limited. Wish they could be expanded. Or if FD could easily drive other samples? Anyone have success doing this?

  • JohnnyGoodyearJohnnyGoodyear

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    It really does. Although, like the other Lumbeat apps, I assume it won't be AU. Which is not really a deal breaker for me. But while I love the grooves I can get in Future Drummer great, the kits in FD really limited. Wish they could be expanded. Or if FD could easily drive other samples? Anyone have success doing this?

    Surprised there wasn't some IAP kit action to be honest....

  • ALBALB

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    It really does. Although, like the other Lumbeat apps, I assume it won't be AU. Which is not really a deal breaker for me. But while I love the grooves I can get in Future Drummer great, the kits in FD really limited. Wish they could be expanded. Or if FD could easily drive other samples? Anyone have success doing this?

    I sometimes record the midi from FD (or other Lumbeats apps) and then export that into NS2 and assign different samples, but it is not a very quick task to make it rational. Lumbeats maps sounds in a quirky way - samples are assigned by velocity and often don't just make sounds louder or softer, but change the actual instrument. So an F#1 at 60 velocity is a closed hat, but F#1 at 120 velocity is an open hat or possibly a ride cymbal (depending on the kit). I suspect it's designed that way so there is no need for choke groups. At least, that's my suspicion.

  • ExAsperis99ExAsperis99

    @ALB said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    It really does. Although, like the other Lumbeat apps, I assume it won't be AU. Which is not really a deal breaker for me. But while I love the grooves I can get in Future Drummer great, the kits in FD really limited. Wish they could be expanded. Or if FD could easily drive other samples? Anyone have success doing this?

    I sometimes record the midi from FD (or other Lumbeats apps) and then export that into NS2 and assign different samples, but it is not a very quick task to make it rational. Lumbeats maps sounds in a quirky way - samples are assigned by velocity and often don't just make sounds louder or softer, but change the actual instrument. So an F#1 at 60 velocity is a closed hat, but F#1 at 120 velocity is an open hat or possibly a ride cymbal (depending on the kit). I suspect it's designed that way so there is no need for choke groups. At least, that's my suspicion.

    That sounds right, well spotted.
    I, too, have tried. The result is a really uninteresting, straight beat — nothing like what's going on in the Lumbeat standalone app.

  • ALBALB

    @ExAsperis99 said:

    @ALB said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    It really does. Although, like the other Lumbeat apps, I assume it won't be AU. Which is not really a deal breaker for me. But while I love the grooves I can get in Future Drummer great, the kits in FD really limited. Wish they could be expanded. Or if FD could easily drive other samples? Anyone have success doing this?

    I sometimes record the midi from FD (or other Lumbeats apps) and then export that into NS2 and assign different samples, but it is not a very quick task to make it rational. Lumbeats maps sounds in a quirky way - samples are assigned by velocity and often don't just make sounds louder or softer, but change the actual instrument. So an F#1 at 60 velocity is a closed hat, but F#1 at 120 velocity is an open hat or possibly a ride cymbal (depending on the kit). I suspect it's designed that way so there is no need for choke groups. At least, that's my suspicion.

    That sounds right, well spotted.
    I, too, have tried. The result is a really uninteresting, straight beat — nothing like what's going on in the Lumbeat standalone app.

    Hmm, yeah - I hear you. I typically assign three different samples based on velocity in NS2 when using Lumbeat midi, trying to follow the Lumbeat rationale. It's an exercise in tedium to be sure.

  • LinearLinemanLinearLineman

    That sounds like the real thing @Telstar5. Thanks for sharing. But aren’t you the standup comic as well?
    Maybe I am confusing avatars....

  • Telstar5Telstar5

    @Tickletiger said:

    @Telstar5 said:

    @McD said:
    That's Tony Williams image in the product announcement. He was the 17 year old drummer that played
    in the Miles Davis' 2nd Great Quartet from '62 to '68.

    He took the polyrhythmic ideas of Elvin Jones to new levels of 4 limb independence. His jazz style was
    features a roaring with hand ride cymbal contrasted with complex linear lines from his snare/bass drum/hi-hat. This style is unmistakable as "Jazz".

    Tony went on to innovate these polyrhythmic ideas against the straight eight style of the Jazz Fusion era
    that followed his departure from Mile's group. Mile (always the innovator) took the same turn towards combining the innovations of Jimi Hendrix with the improvisations of jazz players. Over-driven guitar was the key to the transition.

    I'm expecting Luis Martinez will synthesize the polyrhythm elements of the early Tony Williams style. For all the earlier players he will just need to reduce the number of notes per bar in the patterns.

    For anyone that likes this style of drumming this will be a truly innovative type of Drum Machine if it doesn't repeat itself in any obvious ways. Taking the swing out of the playing with MIDI quantize will also create some interesting Fusion Drum Styles that have no persistent backbeat in the patterns or even regular accent patterns which is the hall mark of funk and prog rock. It's the main reason no one dances to this style of jazz... they can't figure out where "one" is.

     Your statement about “taking the polyrhythmic ideas of Elvin Jones to new levels of 4 limb Independence”  is entirely Inaccurate. Elvin’s concept was based on triplets. There is some Max, Blakey and Philly  Joe Jones and even Roy Haynes in Tony’s style who he emulated as a youth but Elvin and Tony’s drumming concepts are completely divergent. He was not influenced by Elvin’s style At ALL . Here’s an example of me utilizing Ekvin’s concepts which I studied enthusiastically as a youth ..

    Thanks, great playing. Do you come in an iOS app version?

    Ha ha, I wish! But I’d be perfectly happy to field any drumming or music questions in general here. Harmony , etc.. I play piano and bass also. Thanks for the kind words!

  • Telstar5Telstar5
    edited November 2019

    @LinearLineman said:
    That sounds like the real thing @Telstar5. Thanks for sharing. But aren’t you the standup comic as well?
    Maybe I am confusing avatars....

    @LinearLineman said:
    That sounds like the real thing @Telstar5. Thanks for sharing. But aren’t you the standup comic as well?
    Maybe I am confusing avatars....

    Yes, that’s me... I did that also(comedy) some time back. Thanks for the kind words, LL. Always enjoy your provocative and well written posts on here.

  • Telstar5Telstar5

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Telstar5 said:

    @McD said:
    That's Tony Williams image in the product announcement. He was the 17 year old drummer that played
    in the Miles Davis' 2nd Great Quartet from '62 to '68.

    He took the polyrhythmic ideas of Elvin Jones to new levels of 4 limb independence. His jazz style was
    features a roaring with hand ride cymbal contrasted with complex linear lines from his snare/bass drum/hi-hat. This style is unmistakable as "Jazz".

    Tony went on to innovate these polyrhythmic ideas against the straight eight style of the Jazz Fusion era
    that followed his departure from Mile's group. Mile (always the innovator) took the same turn towards combining the innovations of Jimi Hendrix with the improvisations of jazz players. Over-driven guitar was the key to the transition.

    I'm expecting Luis Martinez will synthesize the polyrhythm elements of the early Tony Williams style. For all the earlier players he will just need to reduce the number of notes per bar in the patterns.

    For anyone that likes this style of drumming this will be a truly innovative type of Drum Machine if it doesn't repeat itself in any obvious ways. Taking the swing out of the playing with MIDI quantize will also create some interesting Fusion Drum Styles that have no persistent backbeat in the patterns or even regular accent patterns which is the hall mark of funk and prog rock. It's the main reason no one dances to this style of jazz... they can't figure out where "one" is.

     Your statement about “taking the polyrhythmic ideas of Elvin Jones to new levels of 4 limb Independence”  is entirely Inaccurate. Elvin’s concept was based on triplets. There is some Max, Blakey and Philly  Joe Jones and even Roy Haynes in Tony’s style who he emulated as a youth but Elvin and Tony’s drumming concepts are completely divergent. He was not influenced by Elvin’s style At ALL . Here’s an example of me utilizing Ekvin’s concepts which I studied enthusiastically as a youth ..

    Nice playing! You sure can swing.

    Thanks @espiegel123

  • Telstar5Telstar5

    @LinearLineman : Yeah that’s me . I used to do stand up back in the day.. Thanks for the kind words

  • Telstar5Telstar5

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Telstar5 said:

    @McD said:
    That's Tony Williams image in the product announcement. He was the 17 year old drummer that played
    in the Miles Davis' 2nd Great Quartet from '62 to '68.

    He took the polyrhythmic ideas of Elvin Jones to new levels of 4 limb independence. His jazz style was
    features a roaring with hand ride cymbal contrasted with complex linear lines from his snare/bass drum/hi-hat. This style is unmistakable as "Jazz".

    Tony went on to innovate these polyrhythmic ideas against the straight eight style of the Jazz Fusion era
    that followed his departure from Mile's group. Mile (always the innovator) took the same turn towards combining the innovations of Jimi Hendrix with the improvisations of jazz players. Over-driven guitar was the key to the transition.

    I'm expecting Luis Martinez will synthesize the polyrhythm elements of the early Tony Williams style. For all the earlier players he will just need to reduce the number of notes per bar in the patterns.

    For anyone that likes this style of drumming this will be a truly innovative type of Drum Machine if it doesn't repeat itself in any obvious ways. Taking the swing out of the playing with MIDI quantize will also create some interesting Fusion Drum Styles that have no persistent backbeat in the patterns or even regular accent patterns which is the hall mark of funk and prog rock. It's the main reason no one dances to this style of jazz... they can't figure out where "one" is.

     Your statement about “taking the polyrhythmic ideas of Elvin Jones to new levels of 4 limb Independence”  is entirely Inaccurate. Elvin’s concept was based on triplets. There is some Max, Blakey and Philly  Joe Jones and even Roy Haynes in Tony’s style who he emulated as a youth but Elvin and Tony’s drumming concepts are completely divergent. He was not influenced by Elvin’s style At ALL . Here’s an example of me utilizing Ekvin’s concepts which I studied enthusiastically as a youth ..

    Nice playing! You sure can swing.

    Thanks!

  • Telstar5Telstar5

    The twitter feed said “Adding Roy’s Chops” meaning I assume the great Roy Haynes. And that it did.. it really DOES remind me of Roy and it DOES swing! Kudos to the developer!

  • McDMcD

    @Telstar5 wrote "Your statement about 'taking the polyrhythmic ideas of Elvin Jones to new levels of 4 limb Independence' is entirely Inaccurate."

    Is it mentioning Elvin as an influence on Tony that made it inaccurate?

    I can see that this is your area of expertise as demonstrated in your video. So, I appreciate having the record set straight. What's you opinion of the Luis Martinez app so far based on the demo videos? What drummers do you hear in the product?

  • McDMcD

    Here's Max Roache's thoughts on Tony and his influences from
    https://jazztimes.com/features/max-roach-remembers-tony-williams/

    What follows are Roach’s comments on a few facets of Tony Williams’ astonishing life and career.

    On meeting the young Tony Williams for the first time:

    Well, it was in Boston. His father used to bring him to the clubs in Boston. His father was a saxophone player. His mother gave him permission to come down and visit me one summer. His mother was a friend of Abbey’s, and I was married to Abbey at the time. [Ed. note: jazz vocalist Abbey Lincoln.] He stayed in our place. He was about 15 or so. We went out to a session one night, and Jackie McLean heard him, and next thing you know, a year or two later, he was working with Miles.

    The young impression of Tony was that he could sit in with any of the bands, and he knew everything we were all playing. He could play the arrangements with Clifford Brown, when I had the band with Clifford Brown. He was fast. Next thing I know, he was out there, makin’ waves, and not just makin’ waves, but also doing things that the rest of the guys weren’t. He was adding to the techniques, and the repertoire, and the conception, and dealing with the drum set itself, as a young player.

    On Tony Williams, the teenage prodigy:

    He had something that was definitively his, that was an offshoot of the things that he had heard everybody else do. You know, the drum set is a relatively new instrument in itself. Itís like the four-limbed monster, you know, you have to deal with it with the four limbs of the body, and Tony conquered it at a young age. He conquered the instrument at a young age, and in his own way.

    You know what happens with people who have that kind of talent; it happens at an early age. Like Miles and them, you know, Charlie Parker, when they were young? For some reason-and if anybody knew the key to that they’d do it-but that’s what happens. And Tony had that. He had that. And it doesn’t come because somebody just granted you that. You work for it. Tony practiced, and listened to records, and gave it everything he got.

    So-called prodigy or genius, exhibited at a young age, is because a person has worked for it, he’s put the time in, and so forth and so on, and then he’s in the environment. Tony’s father was a musician. He was in Boston at a time when Boston was swingin’, they had all those clubs. And his dad would take him to the clubs to listen, and sit in with people. He was handling the drums then, before his feet could touch the ground, touch the pedals.

    On Tony Williams’ influences:

    He was influenced by whoever was doing the right thing on the instrument. At an early age he was playing the complete instrument. There’s something about the technique of that instrument that you deal with at an early age. Art Blakey, and all the people he was influenced by, all the great ones, Blakey and Elvin [Jones], all those folks like that [also started at an early age.]

    After he got with Miles, of course, Miles laid down the laws. You know, ‘you can’t join the throng until you write your own song.’ We all knew about that, and that meant that you now had to find something that’s you. He did that, and he did that by embellishing and dealing with things that other drummers dealt with.

    On Tony Williams’ originality and individuality:

    It’s not about comparative things: who’s the fastest, or…It’s not about that. It’s about someone who, when you hear them, you say, Oh, that’s Tony! Oh, that’s Miles! Ah, that’s John Coltrane! That’s what it’s about. Oh, that’s Monk! You know, Monk doesn’t sound like Art Tatum…

    All of us are influenced by our environment. Working around folks like Miles, and being born at a time when the dominant figures were people like Elvin and Klook [Kenny Clarke]-I hear a little bit of all of that. But what Tony did, he dominated, and he brought himself to it. I hear Art Blakey in him, you know. What he did with the high-hat, it was a Blakey-ism, but what Tony did with it was different.

    Tony was a phenomenon.

  • Telstar5Telstar5

    @McD said:
    @Telstar5 wrote "Your statement about 'taking the polyrhythmic ideas of Elvin Jones to new levels of 4 limb Independence' is entirely Inaccurate."

    Is it mentioning Elvin as an influence on Tony that made it inaccurate?

    I can see that this is your area of expertise as demonstrated in your video. So, I appreciate having the record set straight. What's you opinion of the Luis Martinez app so far based on the demo videos? What drummers do you hear in the product?

    First of all, I was blown away by the app. I only heard the twitter demo where he mentioned Roy and Luis nailed Roy’s feel for sure .
    Max mentioned Tony being influenced by Elvin in passing but I just don’t hear it . I’ve read interviews by Tony and I even took a lesson from him. When he was young he emulated and copied the jazz masters if the day and he often talked about it . But he never mentioned Elvin either verbally or musically . Again , Elvin’s entire concept just about was based in the triplet played in 4-4 time , 3 against four . It’s outside of the scope of this discussion to try to explain further but it would be akin to saying Eddie Van Halen took the concepts of Jimi Hendrix to new heights when I fact EVH patterned himself after Clapton, not Hendrix .
    When people say “polyrhythmic “ to describe Elvin, I think jazz critics did that . Tony was actually more polyrhythmic , having virtually invented metric modulation along with Herbie Hancock in Miles’s bands .

  • bibenubibenu

    OMG ... didn't realise this kind of thing was available as a standalone app ... anyone tried the funk drummer ?

    And can you customise parts ? E.g. set the kick/snare pattern and let the app fill in the rest ?

  • RajahPRajahP
    edited November 2019

    @bibenu said:
    OMG ... didn't realise this kind of thing was available as a standalone app ... anyone tried the funk drummer ?

    And can you customise parts ? E.g. set the kick/snare pattern and let the app fill in the rest ?

    Yes.. and much more..

  • bibenubibenu

    @RajahP said:

    @bibenu said:
    OMG ... didn't realise this kind of thing was available as a standalone app ... anyone tried the funk drummer ?

    And can you customise parts ? E.g. set the kick/snare pattern and let the app fill in the rest ?

    Yes.. and much more..

    wow ...

  • TimRussellTimRussell

    @bibenu you’re in for a treat mate!
    All the Lumbeat drum apps are awesome (although I haven’t used Rock or Future drummer) and do what you want and much more

  • McDMcD
    edited November 2019

    @Telstar5 said:

    @McD said:
    @Telstar5 wrote "Your statement about 'taking the polyrhythmic ideas of Elvin Jones to new levels of 4 limb Independence' is entirely Inaccurate."

    Is it mentioning Elvin as an influence on Tony that made it inaccurate?

    I can see that this is your area of expertise as demonstrated in your video. So, I appreciate having the record set straight. What's you opinion of the Luis Martinez app so far based on the demo videos? What drummers do you hear in the product?

    First of all, I was blown away by the app. I only heard the twitter demo where he mentioned Roy and Luis nailed Roy’s feel for sure .
    Max mentioned Tony being influenced by Elvin in passing but I just don’t hear it . I’ve read interviews by Tony and I even took a lesson from him. When he was young he emulated and copied the jazz masters if the day and he often talked about it . But he never mentioned Elvin either verbally or musically . Again , Elvin’s entire concept just about was based in the triplet played in 4-4 time , 3 against four . It’s outside of the scope of this discussion to try to explain further but it would be akin to saying Eddie Van Halen took the concepts of Jimi Hendrix to new heights when I fact EVH patterned himself after Clapton, not Hendrix .
    When people say “polyrhythmic “ to describe Elvin, I think jazz critics did that . Tony was actually more polyrhythmic , having virtually invented metric modulation along with Herbie Hancock in Miles’s bands .

    I'm sure the app will never have the creativity of any of these masters of the kit. It sounds like it was "influenced" by Roland's ground breaking rhythmic hardware... the x0x'es.

    I'm just taking another swing at "entirely inaccurate" BS. It's hard to insure entirety. Nailed it.

  • Pee102Pee102

    Any news about the release date?!...I’m looking forward to this little big thing like a little to XMAS!!!!

  • Pee102Pee102

    @Pee102 said:
    Any news about the release date?!...I’m looking forward to this little big thing like a little to XMAS!!!!...no news?!

  • McDMcD

    I predict it will arrive for Black Friday and cost more on just that one day.
    I'll hope Luis is having fun adding better Jazz baselines to iBassis to match this
    new drummer stylistically and hopefully some ii-V-I style progressions to the
    "stylist" section of iBassist. Hipper comp'ing of the chord output would also be a
    nice gift for jazz improvisers.

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