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I want to try it with TouchOSC as well. Just saw this reply from Polarity:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitwig/comments/oe86jy/new_touch_osc/
And some TouchOSC + BitWig related: https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=413198
.> @echoopera said:
That quite nails my experience so far. Live with all its on-board devices works quite well, it's rather certain 3rd party plugins that are already a bit fiddly to use with a mouse that aren't much fun on a tablet. Arturia Analog Lab is an example.
At least, Windows has a few tools available that don't exist on iOS: A virtual ASCII keyboard with cursor keys, a virtual touch pad (great for browsing presets in Analog Lab), 3rd party apps to add custom gestures and the ability to switch an app between full-screen tablet and classic mode with menu bar.
In tablet mode, I haven't yet found anything that doesn't work without a stylus but for super small controls or star designer super slim scroll bars, it can take two or three attempts to hit the right spot.
Pretty sure @echoopera there is a touchosc template in the driven by moss resources folder for the OSC section. Fwiw Moss said touchosc was fine for doing basic stuff but if you wanted to do it anything more substantial he recommended using open stage control which is what he uses in his video that I posted above. So I just went with that and used his very extensive template. For me the clincher is the labeling you get on everything using his template. All instruments all devices all parameters are all labeled as you select them which makes it a piece of cake to know what you controlling with the iPad.
On another note, after 15 years with Ableton I think there's a fair chance I might be switching over to Bitwig.
If you want a deep touch interface for Live, you could build as deep a controller as you want with Touchdesigner and use TDAbleton device which communicates between the apps with OSC.
@Carnbot @soundtemple I can highly recommend trying Live on a Win tablet in tablet mode and zoomed to 120% in Live's settings. I'm really fine with how it works now, it's only some 3rd party plugins that need more love.
Sounds good @rs2000 However, moving from Ableton to Bitwig is one thing, moving from Mac to Windows is another... Not sure I could do it. 🤔
I won't say goodbye to MacOS either anytime soon. The reason why I've started to look outside the iPad is that I love the great synths and even more the sample libraries on desktop and I wanted to have them on a tablet with headphones connector that I could use anywhere.
For that purpose, it doesn't make any difference to me if it's Mac or Win.
Another plus is that I can implant a larger SSD easily or insert an extra 512GB MicroSDXC card to extend storage capacity for these large libraries.
@rs2000 I hear you and want the same. I guess my strategy was to get a small laptop and use the iPad for midi generation and control of desktop. Not as portable I know, but anything that my desktop stuff runs on will be my main machine, most likely expensive and I don't want that to be windows. Maybe i'd consider it if there was a cheaper option that was just for extra portable use.
Meanwhile the Mac rumour mills are saying the next Mac book pro might have an SSD, more ports and be 14", which interests me.
@soundtemple Yes, and all Macbooks have SSDs already since a few years.
I'm happy to hear that Apple might return to listening to customers instead of star designers. Connectivity that works in real life situations.
The thing is: It seems that there won't be a Macbook with touch screen soon and iPad Pros are too limited and too expensive, that's why I've turned to a Windows tablet for now.
Edit: pointless ranting.
I was watching some videos last night on Bitwig and I like a lot of what I see.
To balance this- Bitwig was conceived from 1.0 to integrate with the Surface Pro (3 at the time). In term of sturdiness, ths Surface Pro 3 (2017) I bought - to use particularly with Bitwig - has outlasted 3 iPads, and at least as many family Macs (butterfly keyboard, oy vey)
Touch based Windows DAW support does also include the FL Studio 12 update that included touch performance mode…
Touch on windows machines I think is also supported by visual artists, the windows art (drawing/painting etc) software outstrips any available on Mac
touch with full-on laptop power is lacking in the MacBook realm but Apple devotees may not miss it, except it seems for some folks on the thread here.
FWIW as a visual artist by trade i truly loathe drawing on Windows Touch Screens. Jaggies is never fun.
The Apple Pencil v2 and an iPad Pro runs circles around Windows when it comes to the pure joy of Drawing and illustrating.
It’s the difference between driving a 1987 Mazda Miata and a 2021 Mazda Miata. Sure both are fun to drive but on a long road trip i will take the 2021 model every day.
But as with all cars, your mileage will vary but i wanted to qualify your opinion with my own experience as a visual artist.
@echoopera horses for courses as our friend Johnny Goodyear says. I got word on Windows art software from a cartoonist friend. All respect to your workflow, and love, comrade. My friend uses some very special stylus/pen hardware on his machine that I know nothing about. I respect the dude’s work and took his word on the depth of the Windows software as compared to the Mac stuff. Procreate on iPad with a Logitech pen is the limit of my own art software experience.
@ehehehe i don’t use Mac, they were family machines as I said, (wife and daughter). My wife is a writer, and she demands a keyboard do what it’s supposed to do. The keyboard that came before the butterfly couldn’t keep up, and the butterfly keys were shit. Replaceable yes but I haven’t had to replace the hinge on my SP3, and the keyboard approach on the SPs pre-2017 was adopted this year by Apple and called “Magic”. No offense, meant. Just making a point about over-engineering and durability.
To your point about how costly the Microsoft machines are, you are quite right. I had to get into my i7 SP3 via a reconditioned machine route. I think the SP4 had already come out. New, those machines are priced like MBPs.
I think my SP3 surpassed the iPads I mentioned because the Microsoft machine and Bitwig software aren’t in the same relentless software-update/hardware-upgrade cycle as my Apple devices and software. An example: it was 4 iPads in ten years befor I could run Auria w/out frequent glitch and crash disappointments.
My view of touch supported vs. touch integrated from 1.0: the Bitwig screenshot you saw must not have shown the touch system of conditional radial menus available throughout the software. Its a completely different workflow than mouse and keys, very powerful and integral to Bitwig from the start.
MTD and Borderlands on ipad have simpler versions of the approach. Bitwig to their credit, and unlike anyone else built two completely different, fully fledged, and equally effective workflows into their software, day one. Touch, and mouse QWERTY (w/hotkey short cuts, right clicks, etc). The distinct touch workflow has a learning curve but I found it to be worth the effort.
You are right, I think most people aren’t using the touch workflow, (or touch devices for that matter) with Bitwig.
There’s a very compelling review and tutorial on the touch system by Robin of Molten Music fame (a source mentioned by a comrade upstream on the thread). His video and the early Bitwig videos convinced me to get into the touch workflow in Bitwig (and convinced me to find a reasonably priced SP3.)
(Most of the objections dude has about the early version of the software have been sorted)
Btw I’m sure your skill level is a match for any software you reach for. I dig Cubasis a lot, it’s a very inviting and solid go-to for me on iPad. Horses for courses, comrade. Love and peace.
@rs2000 sorry I meant SD card slot is the rumour not SSD.
Ah, makes sense 😊
@Littlewoodg but of course 👊🏼™️ It’s just a wonderful thing that we have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to creating art with digital tools these days.
We are in a completely different world than we were in the early 2000’s and i am thankful of this every day.
So true. I'm really enjoying Live and a few cool M4L devices for algorithmic melody, harmony and drum pattern creation now.
My favourite M4L device for drum pattern creation was iHaus by AlexKid. I liked it so much I remade it in Mozaic with scenes and multiple pattern storage.
Other devices I love in Live are DrumBus, Color Limiter, and the DS series of drum synths.
I’ve been learning the ins and outs of both Bitwig and the Driven by Moss extension, it’s astounding how much additional functionality has been added vs. using the LP with Ableton.
The modulation available in Bitwig is crazy extensive. I’ve never felt like it was so easy to bang out some noises that sound good together.
Agree @ahallam DBM is incredibly full featured.
The the equivalent on Ableton was a guy called Stray who had a website called native control and he made scripts for lots of controllers which were very impressive also. However he now works for able to I believe and no longer develops the scripts.
https://nativekontrol.com/about-us
Great for Stray... Gifted man..
I just installed Ableton 11 on an m1 Air and it's amazing. Sending audio from VCV into it using Existential Audio Blackhole. Works like a dream.
Is Ableton 11 native on the M1 now? I know Bitwig is as of version 4.
Not yet, it’s being worked on.
If I was cynical, I’d say it’s coming in Ableton 12
. Joking aside, I like Ableton 11 a lot, but I feel that Bitwig has a lot more momentum in their development right now. They both definitely have their own feel. I like that there’s some interesting competition in the desktop space that seems to have stagnated on iOS.
No question, there's much more going on in the desktop world. And I'm not surprised because making an acceptable living from music software seems to be even harder on iOS.
Despite this, it works really well on m1.
After giving Touchable Pro (beta) and Ableton 11 lite a run... Well... This just might be my dream setup for Desktop...
Upgrades are imminent..
Really nice..