all sales are final!!!!

topaz

I was being sarcastic ;-) I didn't vote brexit. don't blame me. hehe

@Iskander said:

@topaz said:
That pesky EU, who needs them eh.

That‘s very disappointing for me. I live in Germany

Acetone

@Breezee said:
so, can we put our devices in UK and purchase under UK laws?

It is possible to purchase from another country’s AppStore (I’ve done it) but it’s a right pain and I’m not going to tell you how to do it cos it’s probably not legal...

jwmmakerofmusic

@espiegel123 said:

@ralis said:
What about when you are lied to by the developer? I bought NS2 at full price with the Promise of audio tracks soon, they even had a date. That came and went it has been over a year and now the atmosphere is "don't ask.. don't you dare ask! We won't say either!

or The BS from Cubasis "that is on our todo list, we are working on it, we ar listening to you etc." and then they mess up i the current version to sell a new version that is worse than the last!

I feel the Bait and switch!

I never saw a promise for when NS2 would have audio tracks. At first, he said he hoped to have them available by the summer (or something--I don't precisely remember his hoped-for target). I think it is unfair to say he was lying. He was over-optimistic and when he realized how much longer getting iPhone support and audio tracks would take than he anticipated, he stopped guessing at timelines.

It was probably a mistake for him to publish his hoped-for target, but I don't think it was a lie. I think people should be careful about accusing people of being deceptive. I don't think there is any evidence that was the case with NS2 as disappointing as his error was. He has chosen not to compound the error with further speculation as to when audio tracks will be available.

Not to go off topic, but I recently remixed the single of a famous EDM producer in a VOCAL trance style, 100% in NS2, with no audio tracks. It isn't about what is missing. It's about how one uses the tools they already have.

MarkH

@Acetone said:

@MarkH said:

@Acetone said:

@MarkH said:

@cian said:
EU law makes a refund mandatory

I don't think so.

I know so - you have 14 days for a no questions asked refund on apps in the EU. I've done it several times with rubbish apps and they refund you straight away.

Unfortunately, I'm in the UK and because a small majority of idiots voted to leave the EU, I will only have this privilege until the end of the year.

Show me.

Er, OK then:

Yes, but

[Deleted User]

@reasOne

Can emphasise. It’s just not a nice feeling when you are treated like those that abuse the system, when you are a good customer. I’ve been lucky and never had bad service from Apple, but I wouldn’t like it if I was treated like you describe.

Acetone

@MarkH said:

@Acetone said:

@MarkH said:

@Acetone said:

@MarkH said:

@cian said:
EU law makes a refund mandatory

I don't think so.

I know so - you have 14 days for a no questions asked refund on apps in the EU. I've done it several times with rubbish apps and they refund you straight away.

Unfortunately, I'm in the UK and because a small majority of idiots voted to leave the EU, I will only have this privilege until the end of the year.

Show me.

Er, OK then:

Yes, but

Huh?

That means that the 14 day cancellation applies unless the consumer expressly waves all their contractual rights.

It actually says that (twice) in your screenshot, so what is your point?

[Deleted User]

Here in pesky Europe we have the right to refund immediately within 14 days, but we pay the app 22% more than you do in the nice USA. I agree to make the exchange immediately, since in one year I ask for 1 refund and I buy 100 apps. 😒

wim

@Faland said:
Here in pesky Europe we have the right to refund immediately within 14 days, but we pay the app 22% more than you do in the nice USA. I agree to make the exchange immediately, since in one year I ask for 1 refund and I buy 100 apps. 😒

Yes, the downside is higher cost, which Apple builds in to cover their exposure to this, higher taxes, litigation costs, etc.

Acetone

@Faland said:
Here in pesky Europe we have the right to refund immediately within 14 days, but we pay the app 22% more than you do in the nice USA.

That’s actually only a fairly recent thing - not too long ago the prices were roughly the same in whatever currency.

Now Apple just changes the $ sign to £ or € and leaves the number the same.

MarkH

@Acetone said:

@MarkH said:

@Acetone said:

@MarkH said:

@Acetone said:

@MarkH said:

@cian said:
EU law makes a refund mandatory

I don't think so.

I know so - you have 14 days for a no questions asked refund on apps in the EU. I've done it several times with rubbish apps and they refund you straight away.

Unfortunately, I'm in the UK and because a small majority of idiots voted to leave the EU, I will only have this privilege until the end of the year.

Show me.

Er, OK then:

Yes, but

Huh?

That means that the 14 day cancellation applies unless the consumer expressly waves all their contractual rights.

It actually says that (twice) in your screenshot, so what is your point?

By downloading the app you waive your right to cancel.

[Deleted User]

@MarkH said:

@Acetone said:

@MarkH said:

@cian said:
EU law makes a refund mandatory

I don't think so.

I know so - you have 14 days for a no questions asked refund on apps in the EU. I've done it several times with rubbish apps and they refund you straight away.

Unfortunately, I'm in the UK and because a small majority of idiots voted to leave the EU, I will only have this privilege until the end of the year.

Show me. Just because you have been refunded doesn't mean you have been refunded because of the law. And BTW, just because we have left the EU doesn't automatically mean that the law changes. EU directives are implemented in UK law by various Acts of Parliament and/or Statutory Instruments, which would have to be repealed for the law to change.

Yes we will be able to make our own laws, but unless we comply with the regulations of our trading partners, they’re not worth the paper they’re written on. The ultimate lie of ‘taking back control’.

And that’s assuming we can even buy apps at the end of the year. Spotted on the Guardian today:

Here is something I just read in the latest PRIVATE EYE (#1516) in their "Brussels Sprouts" section (I'm summarizing):

The UK digital & tech industry accounts for 15% of all UK service exports, and 42% of that goes to the EU, so according to THE EYE, we're talking about 19.4 billion (with a b) pounds market.

The lunatic notion to diverge from EU data protection rules as the Johnson Government has announced, including specifically stating that not only will they not implement the EU's directives, but they will draw up "their own copyright laws," is now putting this entire industry at risk.

The EU Commission has already begun its review in order to determine if there is "adequacy" between the EU rules and the UK's proposed rules. You need adequacy if companies are to continue to transfer data across the Channel.

According to THE EYE, the EU Parliament has just announced that the UK's data retention laws do not/will not meet the conditions to grant such adequacy status.

Without it, UK businesses will need to add complex legal clauses in their contracts & terms of services, clauses that will have to be approved beforehand by the EU Data Protection Authority. Otherwise data transfers between UK and EU firms will be illegal.

So the UK tech sector is understandably panicking. There have been meetings in Westminster between ministers and data tech bosses.

"Some ministers" (THE EYE does not say who) told the tech bosses that they should continue to do business as usual, even if it means law-breaking on a massive scale. Ignoring a recent European Court of Justice ruling, a "minister" is reported to have said: "who is going to police you anyway?"

In conclusion:

1. Your current government is playing dice with a 20 Billion Pounds market, with very likely chances of destroying it altogether, to the great detriment of the growing UK tech industry;

2. UK tech bosses are reported by the EYE to have said, "this is madness";

3. Somehow, your unnamed ministers believe this will go unnoticed by the EU (!!!) (reminds me of Elmer Fudd's "Hush! I'm hunting wabbits!")

4. Worse if possible, your government spreads the notion that the UK is basically untrustworthy, operates in bad faith, and is all too willing and ready to ignore or break laws when it suits them, which is going to cause irreparable harm to your reputation in politics, finance, commerce and industry, worldwide.

If this is where you are now, my mind fails to imagine where you'll be in a year.

supadom

Well, software is a bit of a bitch to regulate. At this point in time there’s no way Apple can force you to delete the app from your device after you’ve been refunded. In theory you can keep updating it too. So it’s open to abuse. On the other hand however if something doesn’t work as intended and the developer doesn’t fix the shit quick you’re left with a whole lot of nothing, fumes in the cloud. I wouldn’t like to be the lawmaker here.

As to prices, well, the seller sets the price and that’s that. Corporations rule the world as things stand. I’ve requested a refund for about 5, one as recent as yesterday, I’ve got myself a bunch of stripy socks instead.

[Deleted User]

@Acetone said:

Now Apple just changes the $ sign to £ or € and leaves the number the same.

Not precisely. The price in euros is much higher.
Cubase 3
$49.99 / €54.99
€1 = $1.09
So the EU price is actually $59:83!
$10 higher...

wim

@supadom said:
As to prices, well, the seller sets the price and that’s that. Corporations rule the world as things stand.

People can still vote with their wallet in most cases. If they abuse their power too much customers will bail and/or competition will take over. Corporations influence the world mightily, but they don't rule it. Yet.

klownshed

@Faland said:

@Acetone said:

Now Apple just changes the $ sign to £ or € and leaves the number the same.

Not precisely. The price in euros is much higher.
Cubase 3
$49.99 / €54.99
€1 = $1.09
So the EU price is actually $59:83!
$10 higher...

Don’t forget VAT/Sales tax. And that 20% (in the UK at least) obviously goes to HMRC, not Apple.

In the UK, Cubasis is £48.99. That equates to £40.83 + 20% VAT.

$49.99 is £38.45 so we are being charged an extra £2.38 compared to the US before tax. The extra £8.17 goes to the government.

It doesn’t take a huge swing in exchange rates to reverse the difference

US prices don’t include sales tax. All prices to consumers in Europe must be shown including VAT.

Clueless

I did 2 refunds in all the iOS years and there was no problem. But not nice see that such things can happen.
I don´t care about 5 dollar apps (which also can count up of course) but when i think of the more expensive apps with 100+ dollars with no demo to try it is a bad feeling sometimes.

supadom

@wim said:

@supadom said:
As to prices, well, the seller sets the price and that’s that. Corporations rule the world as things stand.

People can still vote with their wallet in most cases. If they abuse their power too much customers will bail and/or competition will take over. Corporations influence the world mightily, but they don't rule it. Yet.

They sure are better organised than consumers. It feels like with targeted advertising and our unstoppable addiction to buying stuff we only ‘think’ we have a choice when in fact it’s barely an illusion of control. But ‘yet’ is probably the right word. Still, barely.

rivermonster

Policies may be different for EU members since their consumer protection laws are different.

They are different in that the EU has them, and the US does not at all anymore. ><

Gravitas

@MonzoPro said:

@MarkH said:

@Acetone said:

@MarkH said:

@cian said:
EU law makes a refund mandatory

I don't think so.

I know so - you have 14 days for a no questions asked refund on apps in the EU. I've done it several times with rubbish apps and they refund you straight away.

Unfortunately, I'm in the UK and because a small majority of idiots voted to leave the EU, I will only have this privilege until the end of the year.

Show me. Just because you have been refunded doesn't mean you have been refunded because of the law. And BTW, just because we have left the EU doesn't automatically mean that the law changes. EU directives are implemented in UK law by various Acts of Parliament and/or Statutory Instruments, which would have to be repealed for the law to change.

Yes we will be able to make our own laws, but unless we comply with the regulations of our trading partners, they’re not worth the paper they’re written on. The ultimate lie of ‘taking back control’.

And that’s assuming we can even buy apps at the end of the year. Spotted on the Guardian today:

Here is something I just read in the latest PRIVATE EYE (#1516) in their "Brussels Sprouts" section (I'm summarizing):

The UK digital & tech industry accounts for 15% of all UK service exports, and 42% of that goes to the EU, so according to THE EYE, we're talking about 19.4 billion (with a b) pounds market.

The lunatic notion to diverge from EU data protection rules as the Johnson Government has announced, including specifically stating that not only will they not implement the EU's directives, but they will draw up "their own copyright laws," is now putting this entire industry at risk.

The EU Commission has already begun its review in order to determine if there is "adequacy" between the EU rules and the UK's proposed rules. You need adequacy if companies are to continue to transfer data across the Channel.

According to THE EYE, the EU Parliament has just announced that the UK's data retention laws do not/will not meet the conditions to grant such adequacy status.

Without it, UK businesses will need to add complex legal clauses in their contracts & terms of services, clauses that will have to be approved beforehand by the EU Data Protection Authority. Otherwise data transfers between UK and EU firms will be illegal.

So the UK tech sector is understandably panicking. There have been meetings in Westminster between ministers and data tech bosses.

"Some ministers" (THE EYE does not say who) told the tech bosses that they should continue to do business as usual, even if it means law-breaking on a massive scale. Ignoring a recent European Court of Justice ruling, a "minister" is reported to have said: "who is going to police you anyway?"

In conclusion:

1. Your current government is playing dice with a 20 Billion Pounds market, with very likely chances of destroying it altogether, to the great detriment of the growing UK tech industry;

2. UK tech bosses are reported by the EYE to have said, "this is madness";

3. Somehow, your unnamed ministers believe this will go unnoticed by the EU (!!!) (reminds me of Elmer Fudd's "Hush! I'm hunting wabbits!")

4. Worse if possible, your government spreads the notion that the UK is basically untrustworthy, operates in bad faith, and is all too willing and ready to ignore or break laws when it suits them, which is going to cause irreparable harm to your reputation in politics, finance, commerce and industry, worldwide.

If this is where you are now, my mind fails to imagine where you'll be in a year.

+1

To add to this.

All touring musicians from the U.K will now have
to pay a touring visa per person per country so
touring the E.U is not going to be financially viable
for British musicians.

Krupa

@Gravitas said:

@MonzoPro said:

@MarkH said:

@Acetone said:

@MarkH said:

@cian said:
EU law makes a refund mandatory

I don't think so.

I know so - you have 14 days for a no questions asked refund on apps in the EU. I've done it several times with rubbish apps and they refund you straight away.

Unfortunately, I'm in the UK and because a small majority of idiots voted to leave the EU, I will only have this privilege until the end of the year.

Show me. Just because you have been refunded doesn't mean you have been refunded because of the law. And BTW, just because we have left the EU doesn't automatically mean that the law changes. EU directives are implemented in UK law by various Acts of Parliament and/or Statutory Instruments, which would have to be repealed for the law to change.

Yes we will be able to make our own laws, but unless we comply with the regulations of our trading partners, they’re not worth the paper they’re written on. The ultimate lie of ‘taking back control’.

And that’s assuming we can even buy apps at the end of the year. Spotted on the Guardian today:

Here is something I just read in the latest PRIVATE EYE (#1516) in their "Brussels Sprouts" section (I'm summarizing):

The UK digital & tech industry accounts for 15% of all UK service exports, and 42% of that goes to the EU, so according to THE EYE, we're talking about 19.4 billion (with a b) pounds market.

The lunatic notion to diverge from EU data protection rules as the Johnson Government has announced, including specifically stating that not only will they not implement the EU's directives, but they will draw up "their own copyright laws," is now putting this entire industry at risk.

The EU Commission has already begun its review in order to determine if there is "adequacy" between the EU rules and the UK's proposed rules. You need adequacy if companies are to continue to transfer data across the Channel.

According to THE EYE, the EU Parliament has just announced that the UK's data retention laws do not/will not meet the conditions to grant such adequacy status.

Without it, UK businesses will need to add complex legal clauses in their contracts & terms of services, clauses that will have to be approved beforehand by the EU Data Protection Authority. Otherwise data transfers between UK and EU firms will be illegal.

So the UK tech sector is understandably panicking. There have been meetings in Westminster between ministers and data tech bosses.

"Some ministers" (THE EYE does not say who) told the tech bosses that they should continue to do business as usual, even if it means law-breaking on a massive scale. Ignoring a recent European Court of Justice ruling, a "minister" is reported to have said: "who is going to police you anyway?"

In conclusion:

1. Your current government is playing dice with a 20 Billion Pounds market, with very likely chances of destroying it altogether, to the great detriment of the growing UK tech industry;

2. UK tech bosses are reported by the EYE to have said, "this is madness";

3. Somehow, your unnamed ministers believe this will go unnoticed by the EU (!!!) (reminds me of Elmer Fudd's "Hush! I'm hunting wabbits!")

4. Worse if possible, your government spreads the notion that the UK is basically untrustworthy, operates in bad faith, and is all too willing and ready to ignore or break laws when it suits them, which is going to cause irreparable harm to your reputation in politics, finance, commerce and industry, worldwide.

If this is where you are now, my mind fails to imagine where you'll be in a year.

+1

To add to this.

All touring musicians from the U.K will now have
to pay a touring visa per person per country so
touring the E.U is not going to be financially viable
for British musicians.

Yup, I work in the visuals side of big tours and I'm really uncertain what's going to happen to our industry, loads of them user the UK as their European stepping off point as the talent is here and there's no hassle getting the trucks on their way, but if that changes 😬

Artj

I remember getting a refund once. A visual art app did not also function as a Photoshop plug-in, whereas if I had bought the version sold by the company itself, it would. I think the fact that the Mac Store did not state this difference made them refund me.

Gravitas

@Krupa said:

@Gravitas said:

@MonzoPro said:

@MarkH said:

@Acetone said:

@MarkH said:

@cian said:
EU law makes a refund mandatory

I don't think so.

I know so - you have 14 days for a no questions asked refund on apps in the EU. I've done it several times with rubbish apps and they refund you straight away.

Unfortunately, I'm in the UK and because a small majority of idiots voted to leave the EU, I will only have this privilege until the end of the year.

Show me. Just because you have been refunded doesn't mean you have been refunded because of the law. And BTW, just because we have left the EU doesn't automatically mean that the law changes. EU directives are implemented in UK law by various Acts of Parliament and/or Statutory Instruments, which would have to be repealed for the law to change.

Yes we will be able to make our own laws, but unless we comply with the regulations of our trading partners, they’re not worth the paper they’re written on. The ultimate lie of ‘taking back control’.

And that’s assuming we can even buy apps at the end of the year. Spotted on the Guardian today:

Here is something I just read in the latest PRIVATE EYE (#1516) in their "Brussels Sprouts" section (I'm summarizing):

The UK digital & tech industry accounts for 15% of all UK service exports, and 42% of that goes to the EU, so according to THE EYE, we're talking about 19.4 billion (with a b) pounds market.

The lunatic notion to diverge from EU data protection rules as the Johnson Government has announced, including specifically stating that not only will they not implement the EU's directives, but they will draw up "their own copyright laws," is now putting this entire industry at risk.

The EU Commission has already begun its review in order to determine if there is "adequacy" between the EU rules and the UK's proposed rules. You need adequacy if companies are to continue to transfer data across the Channel.

According to THE EYE, the EU Parliament has just announced that the UK's data retention laws do not/will not meet the conditions to grant such adequacy status.

Without it, UK businesses will need to add complex legal clauses in their contracts & terms of services, clauses that will have to be approved beforehand by the EU Data Protection Authority. Otherwise data transfers between UK and EU firms will be illegal.

So the UK tech sector is understandably panicking. There have been meetings in Westminster between ministers and data tech bosses.

"Some ministers" (THE EYE does not say who) told the tech bosses that they should continue to do business as usual, even if it means law-breaking on a massive scale. Ignoring a recent European Court of Justice ruling, a "minister" is reported to have said: "who is going to police you anyway?"

In conclusion:

1. Your current government is playing dice with a 20 Billion Pounds market, with very likely chances of destroying it altogether, to the great detriment of the growing UK tech industry;

2. UK tech bosses are reported by the EYE to have said, "this is madness";

3. Somehow, your unnamed ministers believe this will go unnoticed by the EU (!!!) (reminds me of Elmer Fudd's "Hush! I'm hunting wabbits!")

4. Worse if possible, your government spreads the notion that the UK is basically untrustworthy, operates in bad faith, and is all too willing and ready to ignore or break laws when it suits them, which is going to cause irreparable harm to your reputation in politics, finance, commerce and industry, worldwide.

If this is where you are now, my mind fails to imagine where you'll be in a year.

+1

To add to this.

All touring musicians from the U.K will now have
to pay a touring visa per person per country so
touring the E.U is not going to be financially viable
for British musicians.

Yup, I work in the visuals side of big tours and I'm really uncertain what's going to happen to our industry, loads of them user the UK as their European stepping off point as the talent is here and there's no hassle getting the trucks on their way, but if that changes 😬

Yep, I now about that as well.
It's why we handed out the flags for the B.B.C proms night last year.
To highlight the damaging effects that leaving the E.U
was going to have on the entertainment industry
amongst many, many other things.

Still, it doesn't matter now.
Britain will stop communicating with the
rest of the world except America soon enough.
As they don't understand digital communication
they'll most probably shut down the internet
as going to the High Street will be the thing to do
and we shall return to sending emails by actual mail.

So in light of this, if you're in the U.K and you haven't realised
this yet E.U Laws will not apply at all in a few short months.
You cannot have your cake and eat it.

[Deleted User]

How did this become a whinging remoaner thread lol

wim

Huh? It started that way. That was it’s purpose. 😂

Krupa

@Fruitbat1919 said:
How did this become a whinging remoaner thread lol

🤷🏻‍♂️ in pretty sure my days off 'remoaning' on soggy Island are running short, warmer dryer climes are beckoning 😁

[Deleted User]

@Krupa said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:
How did this become a whinging remoaner thread lol

🤷🏻‍♂️ in pretty sure my days off 'remoaning' on soggy Island are running short, warmer dryer climes are beckoning 😁

That’s cool, going anywhere with great fishing?

Krupa

Greece is the thinking, partner grew up there...

[Deleted User]

@Krupa said:
Greece is the thinking, partner grew up there...

I think they have some Carp in Greece, so cast a line

Krupa

I'm feeling a very stretched metaphor but I'm now just lost 🤣

[Deleted User]

@Krupa said:
I'm feeling a very stretched metaphor but I'm now just lost 🤣

Lol. Nope, was just polite waffle from an angler muso