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Buchla Thunder...
Got this for my sensel morph and I’m wondering Does anyone have an understanding of the thought process behind this design? Everything feels mapped much different than anything I’ve ever used and I want to get a better understanding. Thanks
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It’s a very 80s design. At the time the ethos was to not emulate a traditional keyboard at all costs.
It didn’t catch on.
He doesn’t get into much useful information until 5:00 but ...
Interesting layout. The big keys run up one octave minus the 7th on the left. On the right, they run up the next octave minus the 7th from right to left rather than left to right. I'm guessing the idea is the same finger on each hand plays the same note on a different octave? Or maybe the idea that outward to center is moving up the scale. Probably just an effort to look at things differently than any deep functional advantage.
The smaller keys up top are a fifth + 1 octave above the bigger keys below, which is handy. The three keys up the middle are the root triad an octave below the lowest note.
Just to be clear, even with the original Thunder introduced in 1989, every key could be remapped to any MIDI message (note or controller) and there were 8 presets that could be stored on board. The idea was the user would set up the mapping required per piece, rather than use a set mapping.
With the original, the small buttons responded to touch and pressure. The longer buttons, with the feather graphics, would respond to touch, pressure and location (single axis). I believe the two hexagonal sensors had 6 sensors and could be used like dials (not true XY pads), but I could be wrong.
It wasn't so much an ethos to not emulate a traditional keyboard as it was to create an input device that could provide multiple dimensions of continuous control. The orientation of the keys is akin to the natural, ergonomic orientation of hands and fingers, the emphasis was on the location and pressure controls rather than triggering keys.
That probably had to do with the fact that it cost, I believe, close to $2,000 in 1989!
Also, MIDI being MIDI, the utility was limited in normal contexts. Buchla created and implemented the Wideband Instrument Musical Protocol (WIMP), basically equivalent to MPE, but that also did not catch on.
this is a very good question. How do we map the Thunder layout? To be honest, I don't have a mapping yet. The default mapping is a good starting point, but I agree that I don't see much advantage. We probably should get familiar with the original idea of the Thunder controller by Donald Buchla.
I see in this layout a way to play notes with one hand, and with the other hand to switch and level control audio channels. A surface that allows to create a custom singular controller for all the tasks: playing notes, start/stop sequencers, mixing audio, and all control fields with y-axis and pressure sensitivity, which can also programmed for every single control field.
Mapping the Thunder layout on the Morph for one hand only is a good start. I used to do single hand mappings some time ago with the Leap Motion controller as well. The other hand is free to move a fader on a mixer and do other things.
Yes, it's interesting. MPE finally getting on a roll 20 years after this one.
Every surface on the Morph is configurable, and that overlay (and only that overlay at present) has multiple presets that can be saved and switched to on-board like the original Thunder too.
The original question was about why the packaged layout is as it is. I was just trying to suss out some of the possible logic. I may get that overlay as I really want the ability to switch layouts without hooking up to a PC. When I do, I plan to give it a good workout with the default configuration to see how it shapes my creativity and playing before deciding whether to customize it to work more closely to what I'm used to.
Side note for @ipadbeatmaking before I forget: The Morph in MPE mode doesn't work well at all over Bluetooth. A USB connection is definitely needed. You probably already know that, but mentioning it just in case, or for others who don't.
@aplourde : Buchla during his entire career was intentionally staying away from designs based on traditional keyboards. From what I have read and heard in interviews with the people that worked closely with him, he felt that traditional keyboards were a shackle that resulted in musicians being stuck in traditional patterns. The traditional keyboard-like touchplate on the easel was something he had very mixed feelings about. He wanted something less like a traditional keyboard as he didn’t want people to stick to traditional notions of music. He wanted people to think of patches as ways of designing new instruments.
Very true! I guess my point was that it wasn't just a reactionary effort, but a true exploration of new paths.
"Thunder's pads can do a lot more than mimic a keyboard. They let you fingerpaint with sound. They can spew out a flurry of programmed or random melodies, start a sequencer, crossfade between timbres, or even modify the behavior of other pads. Thunder can assign your gestures to any of the 128 MIDI controllers, send patch changes, and even record and play back sysex data. Thunder can control instruments on all sixteen MIDI channels at once."
That's from the Reviews page of the old Buchla site for the Thunder
So it really was MPE, working by exploiting multiple channels (WIMP was an expanded, faster protocol). You could also split the longer pads into two zones to double the number of triggers.
Also, around the same time that the Thunder was released, Buchla also released the Lighting which was a pair of wands that could be tracked in 2D space, allowing the user to "conduct" their MIDI.
That's actually a really good thought for modding the Sensel overlay map. Easy to do too.
It might be interesting to split it so that the upper part has the 4ths to go along with the 5ths above.
More than one split, and unequally sized spits are possible too.
I actually saw Buchla play the Thunder. Stanford University 1991. It was part of a tribute concert for Leon Theremin & Max Matthews. Don was having a great time playing it, but I recall the music was pretty unorganized. Maybe it was great? Found an ad for the show if anyone is interested:
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~aj/archives/docs/all/096.pdf
Exactly. So far it isn’t making sense to me and the ability to switch modes/notes in the overlay only adds to the confusion.
I’m gonna try it out with usb and see the difference I get.
Thanks a lot for this info y’all. very interesting. So far it hasn’t been a very Musical overlay for me but maybe I need to sit with it a little bit longer until it makes sense
Btw, it is worth keeping in mind that Buchla's notion of music was very free and avant-garde -- he (like composer Morton Subotnick with whom he developed his early synths) -- and was looking to have electronic musical instruments and tonal systems be even more varied than the variety of instruments and tonalities as a whole.
Alessandro Cortini has done interesting work as he has mastered the Buchla and has a cool somewhat traditional sensibility. Here is is doing some magic using a real Buchla Thunder to control his Buchla system:
I haven't really looked at the Sensel - so, essentially, the overlays provide a template for “active areas” but the user can still modify that by subdividing, etc.? That’s pretty cool.
I think the controls for Brambos' Mononoke follows a similar concept: instead of providing the user with a normal keyboard for exploring the “music” (i.e. playing notes), force the user to decide on their musical palette first and then let them explore the “sound” (i.e. morphing and modulating sonic parameters).
Not to be "that guy" (while completely being "that guy") but that's not a Thunder per se, that's the 223e Multi-Dimensional Kinesthetic Input; a CV touch panel with the same physical layout. It can do a lot of the same things as the Thunder, but, obviously, not all of the MIDI tricks (pattern playback, SYSEX control, etc.)
@aplourde : thanks for the clarification.
As configured out of the box, the different overlay presets just change the key/scale you're playing in. I think I laid out the logic behind the setup. Scales rising toward the center instead of left to right. Root chord up the middle. 5ths + one octave above every big key.
Well, the only difference will be fewer stuck or missed notes, and less jumping around of the controls. Unfortunately the Bluetooth connection just can't handle the high rate of traffic from all those MPE and aftertouch messages flooding in.
If the strange layout doesn't work for you, then you can always change it. One easy modification would be to arrange the big keys to simply play a scale left to right rather than edge to middle. The smaller keys up-top could be another octave, or you could make them a fifth above. You could even make them triad chords for the notes below them.
Keep in mind too that this is sending MPE data, but it doesn't have to. In fact, if you're using non MPE synths it can really be a hindrance. With the Sensel app you can make a non-MPE overlay for the Thunder as well.
Correct. Any active areas can be made to do any function. You can also stack them. It's pretty cool. Not as cool as I'd hoped, but pretty darn cool.
The Thunder overlay is the only one that has more than one preset selectable from the overlay. With the others, you have to hook up to PC or Mac to download a different configuration. That is pretty disappointing. Hopefully they'll extend that key functionality to the other overlay designs.
The Designer overlay is fun to play with. You can make your own overlays from scratch. I have a few custom designs that I made that are very useful.
Ah, thank you, nice to know. I had assumed the overlays just gave you basic controls that you could maybe change to other values. Knowing there's a lot more customization, I might have to look at this a bit closer....
I have mixed feelings about it. It's a cool idea and a good controller, but disappointing in a couple of ways. I hear they're working on an update, so hopefully maybe some of the things I see missing from it will eventually make their way in.
If you do get interested, forget the QWERTY overlay. It's basically useless for iOS. They were good about accepting my return though.
This is a perfect summary. However I gotta give them so much credit for what’s been attempted here. It’s the ultimate value overall, they really swung for the fences with this.
With the discussion about switching presets, do you have to initially use the sensel app to set the morph up with the buchla or any overlay? And it’s only then you can switch presets without using the app? I only ever got the creators or innovators overlay and so thought you always had to initially set it up with a pc.
@wingwizard the other overlays don't require an app.
I think the Thunder makes the Morph worthwhile.
Thanks
i see people saying that this is fully configurable and i assume that is for a desktop daw and probably hardware... is it also pretty customizable in our ios universe? could you potentially set up the left side to control something like continua and the right side to control another synth like alpha at the same time? just using those synths as examples
I’ll assume you’ll have to do some creative software routing to make that possible. But I would imagine with midi learn its possible. Whatever you can set the morph up to do on desktop app you should be able to do for an iOS app if the iOS app supports it.
You don’t need to initially use the sensel app with any overlay other than the creators/innovators overlay. And u can switch presets on the thunder overlay itself. This is the only overlay that you can do this with so far. All others require the app to manually send the map to the morph if I want to switch settings/presets on the same overlay
It is easy to play two (or more) synths with the same overlay, while in midimode (not mpe). Just use different channels for the synths, when programming the overlay. Also, for „Innovator‘s“-setups: you can just use the morph without an overlay, I found this useful for freestyle improvisings...
[edit ... oops, just saw ipadbeatmaking already answered this.]
I think the Morph comes with default configurations for each overlay other than the designer overlay, so that all you need to do is plop them onto the Morph to be up and running with them. I'm pretty sure on this since I don't recall ever doing anything with the QWERTY and Drums overlay, and they worked out of the box (returned the QWERTY overlay though).
As for switching presets - only the Buchla overlay has the smarts to have more than one preset switchable without hooking up to a PC or Mac and downloading a configuration using the Sensel app.
So, for instance, when I want to switch between MPE and non-MPE mode with the keyboard overlay, I have to take the thing to my PC and download a map to it.
As a side note, there is an annoying bug with the connectivity to my Windows 7 notebook PC. Whenever anything is downloaded to the Morph, it disconnects and can't reconnect without a reboot. I did find a workaround that works better than 90% of the time, which is to disconnect, turn on the device until the bluetooth connection indicator comes on, then plug it into the PC USB. Sometimes the additional step of actually establishing a bluetooth midi connection with an app is needed in order to get it to connect.
Apparently this is isolated to only some computers and only Windows 7, so I'm just reconciled to it since I don't expect anyone to break their backs supporting Windows 7.