GarageBand improvements

Samu

@Paa89 said:

>

With usbC we are free to use any dongle and not get errors like you get with lightning needing to use only Apple products and powered hubs 😝

Yeah, that's an advantage for sure...
Just need to make sure the HUB has PD to charge the iPad while in use

The Apple USB-C->3.5mm is not that expensive either.

So yeah, the 11" iPadPro with 128GB storage is still a quite interesting option.
(6GB Ram should last for a while in iPadLand too).

[Deleted User]

@jacou said:

@TheDubbyLabby said:

@jacou said:

@TheDubbyLabby said:

@jacou said:
After using GarageBand over the last few days I must admit it really starts to be usable. The last time I used it is probably 5 years back. Back then I didn’t find it very usable.

But where on earth is a master channel and automation?? That’s a serious lack!

At garageband desktop

Also nice to have would be a proper mixer,

Use Logic Remote with Garageband iOS since you can export/import

floating AUv3 plugin windows and a volume fade tool.

Why is Apple so far behind the competition?

Apple isn't behind from their POV and some, users like me, hate floating windows on iPad mini or iPhone screens. Obviously there are a lot of users like me but not at Audiob.us forum where people usually demand DAWless setups.

Will we have to wait for a light iOS Logic or will Apple improve GarageBand? Either way Apple has to catch up...

Not really, Apple is behind putting the ground where others put the innovation. Apple never was the push-forward, they are the revamp experts and sometimes even that gets fail (Force Touch, IAA, macpro trashbin...)

If I wouldn’t know apples desktop software my expectation would be lower. But Apple (or its emagic team) knows how to make excellent music software.

Yes but if you look deeper you will find that the innovation was focused on iOS over the past years and only recently a bit into macOS.

https://cdm.link/2020/03/apple-logic-ableton-leak/

Apple has revamped its own apps to make them more compatible with ARM at the cost of losing features that slowly come back or get revamped too. For the same reason hardware was stagnated... it's easy to run low demand apps into iDevices than getting in the cutting edge x86 development and macOS made it possible to keep the minimum specs for most professional users (and for the rest finally released ultraexpensive desktop iMacpro, Macpro modular and Macmini pro) to keep Logic/Mainstage competitive but leaving space for others to thrive.

The fact Garageband for iOS is near to Ableton than any other app (maybe drambo, maybe Zenbeats, maybe Gadget, maybe AUM) but it even doesn't pretend to be is the Apple finger pointing to the moon.

So it's obvious Apple is on prosumerism and will keep some professional apps available for desktop but it isn't their focus and they are doing, as usual, movements without showing the hand (poker reference).

@NemanzgbKaj said:

@NemanzgbKaj said:
Its great if you are making a 20 second jingle, once you get closer to making a real song with parts, tracks and audio units the best thing to do is -Optimising performance-

It's possible to do full songs with Garageband even with the limitations it has but these are there to make users buy a mac. When they decide to merge all (if they do it someday), they will release a full DAW on the winner platform but I think they are ok with all this segmented workflow and user mining IMO.

This thread obviously is rather subjective. Of course to some people iOS GarageBand is more than enough or they are happy to work around things.
My only objective observation is that iOS GarageBand is behind Cubasis, Auria and NS2 when it comes to technical features like automation, master bus or mixer (oh and more than two effect busses that are restricted to apple delay and reverb). And that makes me wondering.
Those features IMO are not just nice to have but essential.
Anyway not sure what exactly my intention was by starting this discussion. I guess it’s nice to have a place with other iOS music warriors to share thoughts and frustrations with

Sure I wasn't to sound salty just showing that your initial assumptions were opinions based on your experience but less than the gospel truth about iOS DAWs.

In fact I barely use any DAW on iOS after all the lacks all they have.

I prefer to start things on BlocsWave, Garageband, Looper apps... and then export into Ableton/Garageband desktop.

The exception but I still didn't put enough energy to verify could be Zenbeats (or Gadget but its price/Cpu demand makes it unreliable for my workflow)

That's the point of discussing, find new info which could benefit all sides. In my opinion Garageband is the right way to implement a DAW without floating windows but I understand people using AUM with AUv3 plugs and all the routing madness (sadly without automation neither).

Who am I to say these are dumb in their approach? I discuss about the needs or not but focusing in the goal: make a song... if your goal is just experiment, loop or whatever without wanting to end a song... then it's perfect!

POV is just the matter...

Thanks for clarifying. Yeah it also wasn’t my intention to step onto anyone’s toe with my disappointment. I can see why some people prefer fixed plugin windows. I prefer floating windows so that you can mess around with more than one plugin at a time and change instrument/daw parameters while having them open.

Your musical approach sounds cool!

I imagined it but talking we can share that sweet spot where things gets interesting.

About sections and so I never get it properly right @samu and even I need to revisit this...

https://www.musicradar.com/how-to/20-great-garageband-power-tips-you-need-to-know (wrong link, I can't find even the right one...)

but also editing some more tips...
https://midnightmusic.com.au/2019/05/garageband-for-ipad-tips/

...to remember how to use them in desktop... could you elaborate a bit your workflow with them mate?

mistercharlie

I L-O-V-E GarageBand on iPad, but I find myself preferring Ableton on my old, old iMac these days, hooked up to a Digitakt. I still use the iPad for music, but mostly to feed Ableton. In fact, now I’m getting used the Ableton way (far too few keyboard shortcuts for a Mac nerd like me), it seems like the perfect setup. Plus you can record all of GBs excellent software instruments into it via an iConnectAudio, or iDAM.

The GB pianos remain my favorite software pianos too.

senhorlampada

I really dig Garageband
And when it was my main DAW I was way more productive
It was mainly GB, Audioshare and a few source apps

But what bothers me a lot is not having stem export.

Samu

@TheDubbyLabby said:

https://www.musicradar.com/how-to/20-great-garageband-power-tips-you-need-to-know

...to remember how to use them in desktop... could you elaborate a bit your workflow with them mate?

I don't use sections on the desktop (LogicPro X/GarageBand) at all!
In Renoise I use the sections/patterns since it's a tracker.

On iPadOS/iOS I have to use sections since there is no other way to loop parts of an arrangement.

On the iPad I just create a few 4 bar sections, it's easy to move between sections by swiping from the edge.
Sections loop by default so when I'm done with the one section I move on to the next.
(It's also easy to copy parts from one section to another by showing all sections at once).

When I'm in lazy mode I use the loop grid, add the parts there and record the performance.
(In GarageBand there is no easy way to split a long section to smaller sections so if I need to loop portions of a long recording I have to create sections, and it's tricky 'cut' everything, create as many sections as needed and paste everything back).

I think the best way to learn GarageBand is to actually play around with it...
(One users method doesn't always work for another).

I miss automation (even for the built-in instruments) editing like crazy (PitchBend, ModWheel, Knobs etc.).
The easiest way to clear all automation for a track is to select another instrument and then back to the original.

There's a few Youtube channels explaining GarageBand way better than what I'm able to do
(I mean I learn from the Youtube clips too).

TheGarageBandGuide
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRvJ4ghoq5gz_Tk4TPl8D1w

Pete Johns
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6BWO4JfxBFSSf41dtF8hqg

(Those who channels have given me enough info on GarageBand when I get 'stuck').

Good Luck!

Paa89

@Samu said:

@Paa89 said:

>

With usbC we are free to use any dongle and not get errors like you get with lightning needing to use only Apple products and powered hubs 😝

Yeah, that's an advantage for sure...
Just need to make sure the HUB has PD to charge the iPad while in use

The Apple USB-C->3.5mm is not that expensive either.

So yeah, the 11" iPadPro with 128GB storage is still a quite interesting option.
(6GB Ram should last for a while in iPadLand too).

The 2018 11 inch 128 has 4 GB ram.
I have te 256 with 4 GB ram and works pretty good

Samu

@Paa89 said:

The 2018 11 inch 128 has 4 GB ram.
I have te 256 with 4 GB ram and works pretty good

I'm thinking about the 2020 11" which starts at 128GB as the base model.
All 2020 iPadPro's have 6GB of ram

FriedTapeworm

@senhorlampada said:
I really dig Garageband
And when it was my main DAW I was way more productive
It was mainly GB, Audioshare and a few source apps

But what bothers me a lot is not having stem export.

Multi Track Recorder by 4pockets fixed this issue for me. You can record your stems straight into this app from Garageband, then take them wherever you want.

jacou

@Samu said:
Now think about this...
...wouldn't it be nice if the next Logic Pro X was a truly universal app?(Starting with iPadOS13..4 and Catalina 10.15.4 it's possible to make a bundle that is available for all supported platforms, that is iOS/iPadOS/macOS).

So even if the iPad version would be a bit slimmed down it would be 'free' for those who already own Logic Pro X on the Mac.
And if someone bought it for the iPadPro without having a Mac they would already have it once they bought a Mac

Regarding the Liveloops for macOS version of Logic, I guess the SideCar feature could be used as loop launcher or implemented as a function in Logic Remote...

Oh that gets ne excited! Nice forward thinking @Samu
Yeah I’m sure that would be a good future proof effort. So everyone has the freedom to chose the device of their liking. I don’t think that would go against apples vision. As they promote the iPad Pro as the next computer type device. I actually think they would like to slowly lay off desktops one day. iPadOS is very similar to iOS so they would have to work on more or less one platform. But the biggest drive for apple to go iOS/iPadOS only surely is the AppStore. Getting 30% of every sale. On the mac they lose a lot of revenue through software companies selling their stuff in their websites. Trying to restrict that by making it complicated with security warnings doesn’t seem to fix that problem for them.
Nevermind. Just speculating here. I really don’t think they cling onto the Mac long term.

[Deleted User]

@Samu said:

@TheDubbyLabby said:

https://www.musicradar.com/how-to/20-great-garageband-power-tips-you-need-to-know

...to remember how to use them in desktop... could you elaborate a bit your workflow with them mate?

I don't use sections on the desktop (LogicPro X/GarageBand) at all!
In Renoise I use the sections/patterns since it's a tracker.

On iPadOS/iOS I have to use sections since there is no other way to loop parts of an arrangement.

On the iPad I just create a few 4 bar sections, it's easy to move between sections by swiping from the edge.
Sections loop by default so when I'm done with the one section I move on to the next.
(It's also easy to copy parts from one section to another by showing all sections at once).

When I'm in lazy mode I use the loop grid, add the parts there and record the performance.
(In GarageBand there is no easy way to split a long section to smaller sections so if I need to loop portions of a long recording I have to create sections, and it's tricky 'cut' everything, create as many sections as needed and paste everything back).

I think the best way to learn GarageBand is to actually play around with it...
(One users method doesn't always work for another).

I miss automation (even for the built-in instruments) editing like crazy (PitchBend, ModWheel, Knobs etc.).
The easiest way to clear all automation for a track is to select another instrument and then back to the original.

There's a few Youtube channels explaining GarageBand way better than what I'm able to do
(I mean I learn from the Youtube clips too).

TheGarageBandGuide
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRvJ4ghoq5gz_Tk4TPl8D1w

Pete Johns
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6BWO4JfxBFSSf41dtF8hqg

(Those who channels have given me enough info on GarageBand when I get 'stuck').

Good Luck!

Thanks!

senhorlampada

@FriedTapeworm said:

@senhorlampada said:
I really dig Garageband
And when it was my main DAW I was way more productive
It was mainly GB, Audioshare and a few source apps

But what bothers me a lot is not having stem export.

Multi Track Recorder by 4pockets fixed this issue for me. You can record your stems straight into this app from Garageband, then take them wherever you want.

Wait
Wut

Never thought of this

I crave Multi Track Recorder but it would overlap features with other stuff I have.
But you gave me the best idea.
Thanks

jacou

@rs2000 said:

@BCKeys said:

@jacou said:
Why is Apple so far behind the competition?

GarageBand has been made 15 years ago with Apple’s rules : allow anyone to make music.
They are not far the competition, they have Logic for advanced users. But bringing Logic on an iPad air 2 was something unthinkable.
Now Apple could probably bring Logic on the new iPad Pro (I doubt on it)
But what will say those who don't have a new iPad Pro.

I know Logic since my childhood, basically.
Logic Platinum Version 5.5 had a lot of today's effects and instruments already, including the EXS24 sampler, and it would run on an old Pentium III single core machine with 256MB RAM very well, except for very large EXS sampler instruments.
That version would easily run on an iPad Air 1 and in terms of features, it would top every DAW currently available on iOS if its UI was transformed to be touch friendly.

Considering Logic needs a lot or RAM and Apple is hardly adding 1GB more RAM on iPad every 2/3 years, if we have to wait 8GB for a light version or 16GB RAM as a standard on every iPad (at least Air and Pro) for a complete version, it could be a looooong wait 😁

See above.
If they had wanted to do it, technically there's no limitation.
Check out Drambo and see how much is possible on an older iPad Air 1 or iPad Mini 2.
Or Nanostudio 2 which is just as efficient with all its effects and powerful synthesis engines.

For some reason, Apple must have chosen not to offer a Logic version on iOS, maybe they fear losing Mac sales, who knows.

I agree! The newer iPad Pro is more than capable!
I had decent performance on my 2007 4gig ram iMac back then. Even with the newly released Logic X in 2013.
If I still can run GarageBand, Auria, Cubasis 2 or NS2 on my iPad Air 1 why wouldn’t a pro GarageBand (simpler Logic) run on a new iPad Pro?
Performance definitely is not the problem here.
As apple in the past always took long with major new software updates (looking at Logic X or Final Cut X) and everyone thought apple abandoned them I feel optimistic that Apple is working on “something”

mrufino1

@AnalogCortex said:

@Strizbiz said:
I have zero complaints about GarageBand for IOS. If I want to take any song to the next level I open it in Logic Pro X.

Could you please explain this in more specific detail? What exactly do you do in Logic Pro X that takes your songs to “the next level”? Any way you could provide an audio clip of something you produced in GarageBand, then the same exact clip taken to the next level in Logic Pro X?

I often start songwriting in ios garageband using the touch instruments and such, and when i get it to logic I record real guitar, real bass with my UAD Interface, work with the drummer a little more, often replace drums with a real drummer down the line, Do editing, mix it using plugins, Etc.

It’s a workflow I like a lot. More than song has been written while I’m on a walk, on break at a gig, in the car, and other places.

mrufino1

@BillS said:
As someone new to GarageBand I find the Alchemy synth just brilliant, and for someone lacking keyboard skills, the ability to switch to chord mode is amazing. Not only that, but depending on where you tap the “chords” you get different sounds. Ditto the orchestra, just amazing.

One of best purchases I have made recently was a Y cable that cost less than 10 quid to take the stereo signal from my iPad to two separate inputs on my desktop audio interface. It means I can get these amazing GB synths into my desktop DAW. I’ve spent a small fortune on VST synths such as Omnisphere and Trillion over the years, but this new super cheap option is opening an amazing new avenue for my music.

Are you on a Mac? You can do that with your lightning cable if so, just enable your iPad in audio midi preferences and if needed make an aggregate device.

I don’t know if that works on windows or not, I don’t use windows very often.

AnalogCortex

@mrufino1 said:

@AnalogCortex said:

@Strizbiz said:
I have zero complaints about GarageBand for IOS. If I want to take any song to the next level I open it in Logic Pro X.

Could you please explain this in more specific detail? What exactly do you do in Logic Pro X that takes your songs to “the next level”? Any way you could provide an audio clip of something you produced in GarageBand, then the same exact clip taken to the next level in Logic Pro X?

I often start songwriting in ios garageband using the touch instruments and such, and when i get it to logic I record real guitar, real bass with my UAD Interface, work with the drummer a little more, often replace drums with a real drummer down the line, Do editing, mix it using plugins, Etc.

It’s a workflow I like a lot. More than song has been written while I’m on a walk, on break at a gig, in the car, and other places.

Thanks. For now I’m nit recording any “real” instruments in GarageBand. My projects are 100% virtual.

CracklePot

The new Classic Hip Hop expansion is really good.

mrufino1

@AnalogCortex said:

@mrufino1 said:

@AnalogCortex said:

@Strizbiz said:
I have zero complaints about GarageBand for IOS. If I want to take any song to the next level I open it in Logic Pro X.

Could you please explain this in more specific detail? What exactly do you do in Logic Pro X that takes your songs to “the next level”? Any way you could provide an audio clip of something you produced in GarageBand, then the same exact clip taken to the next level in Logic Pro X?

I often start songwriting in ios garageband using the touch instruments and such, and when i get it to logic I record real guitar, real bass with my UAD Interface, work with the drummer a little more, often replace drums with a real drummer down the line, Do editing, mix it using plugins, Etc.

It’s a workflow I like a lot. More than song has been written while I’m on a walk, on break at a gig, in the car, and other places.

Thanks. For now I’m nit recording any “real” instruments in GarageBand. My projects are 100% virtual.

You can also then have Your midi controlling deeper synths or other instruments. And in the case of the drums, be it drummers or drums you played, much deeper editing and options (like individual levels, ability to have separate output for piece, things like that). But, gb on ios is very powerful for what it is meant to do.

animalelder

@CracklePot said:
The new Classic Hip Hop expansion is really good.

Yep! Agreed. Great kits, fun sampled instruments for keyboard, and many loops!

Samflash3

I am watching this thread...

JRSIV

My biggest issue with GarageBand is that it’s a DAW that lacks the typical DAW layout. I understand being unique and different is a consideration but at root GB is a DAW. It has the traditional edit window track lanes and timeline but lacks a real traditional mixer for visual feedback. I can’t get used to those sliding panels or the line graph “faders”.

Alchemy and the touch instruments are brilliant. If I mess around in GB I will just export the tracks to Auria or Cubasis to finish & mix. So I do still use it occasionally...

jacou

I think we would need a combo of several iPad DAWs. The instrument quality, drummer, the good interface and haptics of GarageBand, the mixer, routing and audio editing of Auria and the midi engine, interface and synth of NS2. Not sure where Cubasis would fit in. Maybe Cubasis tries to combine all of that already but can’t scratch the same quality of all individual strengths and as I hear has too many bugs.

So devs unite! 😄 Specially Apple is known for it’s collaboration skill 😜

Clueless

@jacou said:
I think we would need a combo of several iPad DAWs. The instrument quality, drummer, the good interface and haptics of GarageBand, the mixer, routing and audio editing of Auria and the midi engine, interface and synth of NS2. Not sure where Cubasis would fit in. Maybe Cubasis tries to combine all of that already but can’t scratch the same quality of all individual strengths and as I hear has too many bugs.

So devs unite! 😄 Specially Apple is known for it’s collaboration skill 😜

If Drambo gets a piano roll (yes, sorry i know this is a drama theme) and AUv3 hosting it would be the best iOS DAW

[Deleted User]

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[Deleted User]

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[Deleted User]

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Clueless

@BCKeys said:

@Clueless said:
If Drambo gets a piano roll (yes, sorry i know this is a drama theme) and AUv3 hosting it would be the best iOS DAW

For electronic-edm-trap-hiphop-techno-ambient-[…] players, maybe.. from the overview I saw from Drambo..

It was not meant too serious. I f.e. prefer the Logic kind of sequencer DAW layout and Live would be the last DAW i use.
Drambo might be the closest to a Live clips performance tool? Not sure.
I love Drambo and for p-locks sequencing and loop like playing it is awesome. For live performance, non loop like things and for more non quantized live playing musical phrases or whatever it might not the best thing.
I´m not much into the EDM, loop, clip thing myself but i love Drambo. In general i like to use tools which might be totally "against" it purpose, lol
F.e. i might never use the Drambo sequencer much but just use extern arps to trigger Drambo instruments.
So i might be using it wrong already
Indeed i would much prefer if Drambo would get something like this here as module. Oh that would be the dogs bollocks. Seems very unique, even for Reaktor:

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Samu

@BCKeys said:

>

Cubasis is great, come on ! It just misses that irresistible GB’s touch 😊

Cubasis also lacks the 'scales' and 'chord inversions' for it's keyboard which make jamming so much fun
Not to mention the MPE support for the built-in keyboard for polyphonic pitch slides, expression etc.

The only few thing I really miss in GarageBand are editing of the recorded automation (at least for the built-in instruments for starters), AUv3 automation and editing and 'trim & normalize' for the sampler and . Flex Time & Pitch would be a nice bonus.

Also not being able loop sections of a longer recording without adding err sections is a bit meh...
A simple tool to make se selection and loop it would be nice with an option to 'convert selection to section' would be handy.

I also miss destructive audio-editing in GarageBand (and well add transient markers to user-recorded audio) to allow flex-time..

Tuning the drums in the drum-machines could be handy as well as a blank kit that allowed drag'n'drop of user-samples.
(Think DrumKit Designer in Logic Pro X on which most newer GarageBand expansion kits are converted to when importing a project into Logic).

GarageBand doesn't have to be 'Desktop Logic' but a bit more control would be nice

Clueless

@BCKeys said:

@Clueless said:
It was not meant too serious.

me too !! 😋

I just discuss and give my opinion (sometimes (often) stupid and probably offbeat). English is not my language and I am sorry if my words are sometimes hurtful. I’m a very peaceful guy 😊

Well, i´m also no native english and so i often don´t get something or come away to harsh, even if i meant it not this way.
Nothing wrong with this. This is a great forum with nice people

[Deleted User]

@Clueless said:

@BCKeys said:

@Clueless said:
It was not meant too serious.

me too !! 😋

I just discuss and give my opinion (sometimes (often) stupid and probably offbeat). English is not my language and I am sorry if my words are sometimes hurtful. I’m a very peaceful guy 😊

Well, i´m also no native english and so i often don´t get something or come away to harsh, even if i meant it not this way.
Nothing wrong with this. This is a great forum with nice people

Prove it!
I think I talk perfectly english but probably don't...