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Comments
@blipson and @espiegel123
There are several ways to do it.
The best bet would be to use Chicken Systems Translator to convert from EXS to SFZ.
Other ways to do it:
Since I don't have the samples I cannot promise but it seems like that would work too.
Here's one converted by means of the first method:
@rs2000 I just tried it, placing the sfz file inside the samples folder, then one level above the samples folder, but all the samples are "not found." Can you suggest where to place the sfz file?
Edit the SFZ file and replace the weird WAV paths from my system by the path you want.
It's a text file so any editor with search and replace would work.
I'm not sure how to read sfz files, but the path to most of your samples looks like:
......\out2\402 Snare\Samples\LDWG_KICK_SFFL_HT_007_V3.wav
So it looks like all your samples lie in the "Samples" folder with no further nesting? Also, the folder above "Samples" is named "Vintage1965LudwigSuper," so I guess I need to change that to "402 snare"? And then all those "..\" and the "out2" are normal system info?
In your test editor, replace all occurences of
..\..\..\out2\402 Snare\Samples\with
Samples/Done.
@rs2000 Or, better: if I go ahead and purchase Chicken Systems Translator, is it reasonably easy to do these EXS to SFZ conversions?
Yes, it is. Should be worth it if you're doing more than just one or two conversions.
Cool. Does this easiness depend on eliminating the nested structure of the samples and putting them all in one flat folder? Or will Translator process the original nested structure?
It must be processing the original folder structure, the weird paths came from me selecting a different folder with source samples (I've created dummy samples to test the conversion).
If Translator takes the original nested file structure and its EXS file, then makes a correct SFZ without further changes, that will be great. Meanwhile, Translator costs more than the combined price of the 14 kits I bought.
That's the point.
@blipson :,see this post about an app that does conversions and has a free trial period
also, make sure to email @virsyn via his site.
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/623429/#Comment_623429
Thanks for the app rec.
I'm not sure about contacting virsyn because I really have nothing good to say about Audio Layer. Sure, it performs its core function well enough--and it appears the only option on iOS to do that, so I'm stuck with it. But I have dozens and dozens of pro audio apps, and this one has the most unnecessarily un-clever user interface out of all of them by far. It's a mature app, but has an alpha- or early beta-style user interface with weirdly amateurish oversights and limitations that make simple editing and file manipulation so much more difficult than they should be. Maybe I'm missing something, but at this point I see Audio Layer as one big hairy workaround, and an unfortunate monopoly. Apparently its development is related to a university, and given the skills it takes to produce its core function, I just can't comprehend what kind of developer can be so out of touch with how users will actually interact with the app to tweak their work.
The reason for contacting him would be to tell him that you have EXS files that don’t import. There is no reason to share your personal judgment/criticism of the app. If you would like to see the problem importing those EXS Files addressed, write to him and he might look into it.
You probably won’t get much of a hearing if you also feel the need to air your negative feelings and judgments about the app.
These are my objective judgments based on experience. The reason to share them is that others can then judge for themselves based on all available information. Sure, we can do that in the App Store's ratings and comments section, too.
For a commercial product, I include the negative with the positive to convey a fair opinion. It would not be reasonable for a seller to expect cheerleading when they charge money. A developer who charges money, but can't tolerate customers' judgments of the product would lose my confidence entirely.
pro tip: if you want a bug fixed or help from someone, just ask your question and spare the other person your personal judgments -- if you actually want help.
Your opinion about what is professional or not is actually an opinion. It may even be fully justified but it is irrelevant to getting your EXS files looked at. The person reading your email and considering whether to spend time on solving your problem is a human being and will have feelings like any human being.
As much as you want to share your opinion of his work, it is unlikely to make him feel motivated to help you.
As a former developer and consultant, I can tell you for sure that if what you are about is getting help with your EXS files -- sending a list of critiques irrelevant to solving that problem is likely to get you an unsympathetic reading. It is simple human nature.
Just like you probably wouldn't be inclined to pay attention to someone asking you for help if they also share info with you about all the things they don't like about you.
Devs are people. They have feelings. Your feelings about his design are totally irrelevant to the getting your EXS files imported.
I hear your critique of my judgments, and I suggest you judge my critiques in a way that takes into account costs and benefits in a comprehensive judgmental way.
I am not judging your critiques. I am simply telling you that if you share them along with the request for help with the EXS, you won't probably get a very sympathetic reading of your support request if you also give your view of the things you find wrong with the app.
Whether or not your critiques are valid is completely irrelevant to getting your EXS import problem resolved.
Just because something is true doesn't mean you have to say it out loud. Do you want help? Then express yourself accordingly -- and keep your reader in mind. If you just want to vent and don't want help, go ahead and give him an earful -- just don't blame the developer for not feeling motivated to help you. It is entirely foreseeable that someone would be unsympathetic to a person asking for help and sharing their negative thoughts.
It is human nature.
People interacting via electronic communication sometimes forget that a human is reading their messages. I've also noticed that people sometimes feel like anything they feel is true is something they are obliged to write, but if you are trying to get help, you really do need to think about the person reading your message.
I use AudioLayer but never bother editing anything in the app itself. I find Virsyn apps’ UIs inscrutable :-/
I’ve had a fairly easy ride with EXS samples though, but I’ve mainly used my own instruments which tend to be very simple.
I did have one very old instrument that wouldn’t load properly so I saved the Logic project with the option to save the EXS sampler within the project and used that version to reimport and it worked. There may have been a stray file which logic knew how to find but wasn’t in the correct folder for AL. Saving sampler instruments with your project consolidates the samples.
One thing I’m intending to try soon is to use the auto sampler in LPX 10.5 to make EXS kits out of some ofthe drum machine designer kits for use with AL.
You could probably auto sample Another EXS instrument too; I’ve thought of that for things like the strings instruments where I just want a cut down version with just one articulation and fewer velocity layers for use on iOS. (I can live with having separate instruments for, say pizzicato).
It’s easy enough to make it worth a go...
@blipson I can only speak for myself: Comparing iOS apps with desktop apps is not the point. There is a clear line between the minimalistic iOS ecosystem and full-fledged desktop OS apps and iOS can only replace my desktop apps where I'm ready to accept all limitations.
@klownshed I've found the best way to create programs in giving imported samples proper names to have them auto-mapped by AL as good as possible.
@rs2000 Sure, but compared with the dozens of iOS pro audio apps I use--let alone ones as expensive as AL--the inability to tweak one's work gives AL a very beta feel. Actually, I don't recall comparing with any desktop apps. In any case, the inability to tweak one's work, with buyers reporting that they bypass AL's editing capabilities because of the user interface gives a multisample editor an early beta feel. At $14.99, accepting the limitations, then judging their relative merits seems worthwhile, no?
Your personal feelings about the usability are totally irrelevant to getting your EXS import dealt with.
Also, they are opinions. Not everyone shares them.
There is not a general inability to tweak one's work. It might not be tweakable to the degree or in the ways that you would like. But I disagree that it isn't tweakable.
For $15 or even more, it provides a lot of bang for the buck in my opinion. The disk streaming is very good and that is not an easy thing to accomplish.
Could it be improved? Sure. But, I disagree with your assessment of it as amateurish or beta. It kills me that people treat $15 as a lot of money when developers end up earning less for their time from even reasonably successful apps than they would from working a menial job.
Anyway, you can decide if it is more important to you to get your EXS import addressed or to shame the developer because it doesn't satisfy your personal criteria of a professional app.
The interface does suck. I can't stand it. The zone adjustment screen is one of the most frustrating UI's I've ever used. My opinion of course.
That said, I love AudioLayer now that it works so well with it's own auto-sampling and with SynthJacker. That's the only way I use it now, and it works great.
I've not messed with SFZ and ESX import enough to judge, but based on the sheer number of posts with people having problems, I have to believe it needs improvement still.
That is only likely to happen if people take the time to factually, and without the distraction of complaints about other issues, report problems to the developer. I agree with @espiegel123 that when reporting an issue it's best to do so without the distraction of complaining about unrelated issues.
But, if the decision is the app isn't worth the time because of the combination of things not liked, then that's the way it goes. Best to move on ... though in this case I don't know that there's any other app to move to that fits the bill.
I think there are people out there that can take criticism. I say go for it. Let virsyn know your issues and user opinion. Especially if you word it in the reasonable way you have here. I would have thought a developer would much rather get the negative user opinion in an email than an app store review.
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Interesting. I find the UI quite easy and logical but maybe it's because I've worked a lot with NI Kontakt on desktop.
In any case, I'm always using the auto-mapping feature when importing samples so I rarely have to touch the mapping grid.
With the recent updates and fixes, AL has become an outstanding iOS app when it comes to building and playing huge sample programs that would be impossible to put in your pocket otherwise.
It isn’t a matter of taking criticism or not. It is a simple practical matter. When you want support or help, respectfully sticking to the the thing you need help with with will get you better service than of you complain about all the things you don’t like. That’s human nature.
Sure. You have the right to say what you want. But you are less likely to get what you want.
And when you do want to provide useful feedback, it makes a big difference how you express yourself. Saying, “ I wish you could do xyz” will get listened to. “I find your user interface amateurish/unusable “ probably won’t.
It's human nature for some, I absolutely agree, but I believe there are people with the ability to separate one issue from another.
Hello
I have App A and I have a problem. It goes like this.
Bye the way, as I have your attention I thought I would add the following as there are some issues with your app that I find to be problematic. These are.
Thanks you for your assistance with my primary issue.
Yours sincerely
R. Ash Anelperson
@rs2000 I got Chicken Systems Translator 7, and it did the conversions I needed easily enough. The software has lots of issues and important features that just plain don't work (for example, sample playback and GUI interaction with an instrument), but its core function to convert in a straightforward way worked fine for me. Googling, that agrees with people's reported experience with this software, and I have no need to do anything further with it, so that's good. The company also gets a bad rap for their customer relations, and in my little interaction with them, I'm sorry to say I agree, but this kind of operation is not something I'm ever likely to do again (I've never needed it before in my life), so after archiving everything I expect I'm done with them.
I would like to be able to move the zones around, which is too difficult with Audio Layer on my iPad Mini. I might try moving things to my Pro and use an Apple Pencil. I tried editing an SFZ file manually, but that didn't work out right, and I don't want to get into endless debugging. I'm going to try this Polyphone SFZ editor--does anyone know it? Chicken Systems does sell an instrument creator, Constructor, but googling about it and based on my experience with Translator, there's no way I'm going to spend $150 USD to roll the dice on that. If I can't put all my kit pieces under a consistent set of MIDI notes, I'll have to create MIDI maps per instrument in my MIDI hub, which will be a significant amount of work to make it easy to change patches while keeping everything consistent on my controller.
Soundwise, it's been a lot of work and expense for a mediocre result, but that was expected. These 16-layer kits don't sound as good as the two kits I have in a dedicated overpriced 16-layer 2-kit accessory, but iOS provides much more convenience and many more kit choices at about the same total cost, though I always end up settling on 2-4 favorite kits after a while. In any case, this level of multisampling can't replace 128-layer BFD3 on a laptop (if I ever manage to get that back), and just can't compete in sound quality with my Roland TD-50, that bulky monster, which I could get $1700 USD for right now.