LK - for Ableton Live & Midi by Imaginando - AUv3 Clip Launcher Finally Available in AUM!!

espiegel123

Launchpad X
Launchkey mini mk2

Also recommend that you have an option to select a "generic" controller that users can select if they don't have a supported controller that assigns triggers to clips etc.

this way users can configure their own devices and scripts and mididesigner and lemur templates to send the midi triggers LK is expecting.

Jumpercollins

LP Mk 3 Pro.

muzka

@sinosoidal said:
If you could choose the next dedicated controller support for LK, which one would be? We want to invest in one more controller to add support. We will choose the one with more votes. Thank you for your feedback!

Lp mk3 pro

echoopera

Getting in on this today.

Michael_R_Grant

@Freddy_Valeur said:
Ableton Push 😎

Push 2!

NTKK

Is it possible to map the the volume,pan and solo/mute controls in the matrix module to AUM’s mixer? Are these controls for Ableton only? I have it set up in the controller module, and it is working great, but it is sending on one channel only - it would be nice to have these controls on a per channel basis. Thanks for all the hard work😀

sinosoidal

We have just uploaded a new beta that allows sync transport with host when hosted. This is something that has been asked several times here. I hope this simplifies the workflow.

I think I will make a google form to host the next controller pool. I will populate the form with the suggestions that have been provided already.

Regarding the other suggestions and comments, I will try to reply tomorrow.

Thank you for your support and feedback!

RajahP

@sinosoidal said:
We have just uploaded a new beta that allows sync transport with host when hosted. This is something that has been asked several times here. I hope this simplifies the workflow.

I think I will make a google form to host the next controller pool. I will populate the form with the suggestions that have been provided already.

Regarding the other suggestions and comments, I will try to reply tomorrow.

Thank you for your support and feedback!

Host Sync will be great.. Thanks..

White

@sinosoidal said:
We have just uploaded a new beta that allows sync transport with host when hosted. This is something that has been asked several times here. I hope this simplifies the workflow.

Thanks for adding this, it is working fine In the beta 😊

jscheel

@sinosoidal said:
If you could choose the next dedicated controller support for LK, which one would be? We want to invest in one more controller to add support. We will choose the one with more votes. Thank you for your feedback!

Definitely Launchpad Pro MK3 for me

tahiche

@sinosoidal said:
If you could choose the next dedicated controller support for LK, which one would be? We want to invest in one more controller to add support. We will choose the one with more votes. Thank you for your feedback!

Korg Nanokey Studio !! 😃
Yes, I know it’s not a proper “controller” bla, bla, bla. but it does have pads and clicky things, which brings me to... Isn’t Midi learn on clip launch more universally important than trying to support endless devices?. At least everyone, including my sad Nanokey would get some... Midi learn is crucial for this since you usually don’t know the cc the pad or whatever is set to. With proper midi control of clip launch you could just learn and go, easy peasy. I don’t use it now cos it’s too much work.

sinosoidal

@tahiche said:

@sinosoidal said:
If you could choose the next dedicated controller support for LK, which one would be? We want to invest in one more controller to add support. We will choose the one with more votes. Thank you for your feedback!

Korg Nanokey Studio !! 😃
Yes, I know it’s not a proper “controller” bla, bla, bla. but it does have pads and clicky things, which brings me to... Isn’t Midi learn on clip launch more universally important than trying to support endless devices?. At least everyone, including my sad Nanokey would get some... Midi learn is crucial for this since you usually don’t know the cc the pad or whatever is set to. With proper midi control of clip launch you could just learn and go, easy peasy. I don’t use it now cos it’s too much work.

General midi mapping is a huge task because it involves a big refactor.

We have gone through several big refactors in the last couple of months.

Big refactors always bring instability and right now we seek stability so much. With stability I mean zero crashes.

We just ended a big refactor to make LK tight in time and it hasn’t been released yet.

Implement a new controller is a very focused task and it does only imply creating a new code file focused on that controller.

Implementing a generic way of mapping a generic controller will require deep transformation to the UI code and implies creating a generic way of editing that with new pieces of UI.

I understand it can be frustrating for you but it would be easier to write a single app that does that than adding that feature to LK (have I just add an idea to another app?)

We seek stability and great experience. We also love quick releases where a new version can take a couple of weeks with nice improvements and new features rather than months or years.

These are the reasons why we have been avoiding the mammoth task of generic midi mapping support. It will eventually be added I just don’t see it coming fast as you would expect.

😊

sinosoidal

@espiegel123 said:
I find the current setup difficult (particularly for those projects where I would like to start by recording MIDI whose length is not predetermined) as there isn’t a way to record the first clip with a count off or click so that you can start on one. The workaround of starting play back in the plugin and stopping the host transport is kind of cumbersome (and as far as I can tell doesn’t allow for a first clip without a pre-determined length to be recorded).

A negative count would definite help. We need to find a way of doing that.

p.s. it would be great if LK let you choose a input controller protocol so that even if you don’t have a launchpad (or other controller LK has mappings for) that you could send the same MIDI such a controller would. This would allow one to use Mozaic or MIDIDesigner to remote control LK without the laborious process of setting up the triggers for each clip manually.

My last post at the bottom of the thread previous post talks about the reasons we are not doing this for now.

sinosoidal

@branis said:
Of course, everybody is going to vote for a controller they own, I'm no different
My vote goes to Launchpad MK2

@sinosoidal If there is any chance of assisting you remotely with adding controller support I'd be more than happy to help

Launchpad MK2 is very similar to Launchpad X, what's the difference?

espiegel123

@sinosoidal said:

@espiegel123 said:
I find the current setup difficult (particularly for those projects where I would like to start by recording MIDI whose length is not predetermined) as there isn’t a way to record the first clip with a count off or click so that you can start on one. The workaround of starting play back in the plugin and stopping the host transport is kind of cumbersome (and as far as I can tell doesn’t allow for a first clip without a pre-determined length to be recorded).

A negative count would definite well. Ableton Link does that. We need to find a way of doing that.

p.s. it would be great if LK let you choose a input controller protocol so that even if you don’t have a launchpad (or other controller LK has mappings for) that you could send the same MIDI such a controller would. This would allow one to use Mozaic or MIDIDesigner to remote control LK without the laborious process of setting up the triggers for each clip manually.

My last post at the bottom of the thread previous post talks about the reasons we are not doing this for now.

So, it would be difficult to add the ability to let a user select the Launchpad mapping you already have in LK?

sinosoidal

@skrat said:
You didn't ask for it But here's my suggestion for generic support for any controller. I think it's not so complex changes, given how much progress you did just in last months, and you'd cover needs for any possible controller in the future. What I see that needs to be done is:
1. Ability to change clip MIDI trigger properties also on empty slot (Actually exactly like it's currently done for scenes), so you won't need to map everything over and over when creating a new project and you'll be able to create empty preset projects for your controller.
2. Ability to choose MIDI SEND trigger message, for controlling LEDs color when the clip is pressed and played (distinguish between clip pending to be triggered and actually playing - for the "blinking" state of a pad / button)
3. For controlling specific LED color, at least on APC40, note velocity is used and I believe this is the case for most of the controllers. Also don't forget to allow for channel selection, which is pretty important too as (again at least APC40) controls LED blinking state based on the MIDI channel on which the note is sent.
4. That said, you should also allow for separate MIDI out for these controller messages, so they won't mix up with the actual notes playing from matrix clips. E.g. Fugue machine have separate MIDI out as AUv3.
5. Then when LK loads, it'll send all these MIDI SEND trigger messages to the controller to initialize the LEDs state. If this could be triggered manually (e.g. when you connect controller after the load), that'd be nice.

Nice to have improvements:

• "Scrolling", or basically navigating, in the matrix from the controller - to set the currently visible area on your controller to not be restricted only on the number of pads on your controller. For that you'd need:

  • Ability to set the matrix size of your controller - number of tracks and scenes.
  • Be able to MIDI map arrows to navigate scene up / down and select next / previous track.
  • If navigating up / down, LK will send all the mapped MIDI sends of all the clips that fit into it's matrix size to the controller, so you'll see the same thing on the controller as in LK.
  • Since you can have LK open a window of any size as AUv3, it would be nice to indicate, which part is currently displayed on the controller, or you'd get easily lost. Ableton Live uses red rectangle around the clips that are currently displayed on the controller.

• Custom mapping of color palette to note velocity per controller somewhere in the settings to indicate that e.g. color red is lit up when note is send with velocity 124.

Still, I am getting to the conclusion, it'd be the best to be able to load some controller setting file in LK preferences. People (or even you) would be able to create those files even without owning the controller, just based on their manual and send to people with less technical skills to test. Such file would contain: 1. List of note/cc numbers with option to set: number, type (note/cc/pc), channel, scene coordinate and track coordinate and velocity. This way you can also detect the size of the matrix. 2. To have flexibility over how various controllers handle blinking state, the same list would go for mapping blinking state and you e.g. just change MIDI channel there (or velocity or so). Then besides these notes list, there would be color mapping to either velocity or other parameter (if you know about other system some controllers use for displaying specific color), something like 'red' : 124 or 'red': { 'velocity': 123 }

There is endless amount of controllers out there that currently support some kind of pads and on light up them on received MIDI messages. Opening the option for people to create their own mapping will save you a lot of time and requests. Not to mention you won't have to add anything new in the UI (maybe except a button to open the mapping file). I'd happily create such mapping for less skilled users and their controllers and I believe here in the community many people would do so. Please, at least give it a try

Thanks for your incredible feedback. I've made a post at the bottom of the thread on why I don't want to choose this path right now.

sinosoidal

@espiegel123 said:
Launchpad X
Launchkey mini mk2

Also recommend that you have an option to select a "generic" controller that users can select if they don't have a supported controller that assigns triggers to clips etc.

this way users can configure their own devices and scripts and mididesigner and lemur templates to send the midi triggers LK is expecting.

Launchpad X is already supported. Have you tried it?

sinosoidal

@echoopera said:
Getting in on this today.

That's a really nice machine. I've only messed a little with it. I love the buttons feel. How is LK handling it?

sinosoidal

@NTKK said:
Is it possible to map the the volume,pan and solo/mute controls in the matrix module to AUM’s mixer? Are these controls for Ableton only? I have it set up in the controller module, and it is working great, but it is sending on one channel only - it would be nice to have these controls on a per channel basis. Thanks for all the hard work😀

Are there standard midi values for pan, solo and mute? I know that AUM automatically maps MIDI CC to volume.

The volume faders in LK are controlling the velocity of the notes. Maybe it would make much more sense to send midi if there is general midi for this.

sinosoidal

@White said:

@sinosoidal said:
We have just uploaded a new beta that allows sync transport with host when hosted. This is something that has been asked several times here. I hope this simplifies the workflow.

Thanks for adding this, it is working fine In the beta 😊

Thanks for your quick feedback!

sinosoidal

@espiegel123 said:

@sinosoidal said:

@espiegel123 said:
I find the current setup difficult (particularly for those projects where I would like to start by recording MIDI whose length is not predetermined) as there isn’t a way to record the first clip with a count off or click so that you can start on one. The workaround of starting play back in the plugin and stopping the host transport is kind of cumbersome (and as far as I can tell doesn’t allow for a first clip without a pre-determined length to be recorded).

A negative count would definite well. Ableton Link does that. We need to find a way of doing that.

p.s. it would be great if LK let you choose a input controller protocol so that even if you don’t have a launchpad (or other controller LK has mappings for) that you could send the same MIDI such a controller would. This would allow one to use Mozaic or MIDIDesigner to remote control LK without the laborious process of setting up the triggers for each clip manually.

My last post at the bottom of the thread previous post talks about the reasons we are not doing this for now.

So, it would be difficult to add the ability to let a user select the Launchpad mapping you already have in LK?

I wouldn't call it difficult, but we would certainly need glue to make things work.

Right now we are detecting the presence of a midi device with a certain name connected and we will only handle that midi input if it matches the controller name. In some controllers there is more than a port being added (eg: Launchpad X).

espiegel123

@sinosoidal said:

@espiegel123 said:
Launchpad X
Launchkey mini mk2

Also recommend that you have an option to select a "generic" controller that users can select if they don't have a supported controller that assigns triggers to clips etc.

this way users can configure their own devices and scripts and mididesigner and lemur templates to send the midi triggers LK is expecting.

Launchpad X is already supported. Have you tried it?

I've just received one to try out but haven't had a chance to try it with LK. I was responding to the question about what controllers people wanted to see supported not realizing that Launchpad X was supported.

sinosoidal

I've created a pool for the controller -> https://forms.gle/LuTptp2QUBh6m9Kj7

cozido

@sinosoidal said:
Launchpad MK2 is very similar to Launchpad X, what's the difference?

They might be similar but the MK2 doesn’t seem to work, it’s recognized by LK in standalone mode, but doesn’t respond to anything. And it’s not even recognized in AU mode.

skrat

@sinosoidal said:

@skrat said:
You didn't ask for it But here's my suggestion for generic support for any controller. I think it's not so complex changes, given how much progress you did just in last months, and you'd cover needs for any possible controller in the future. What I see that needs to be done is:
1. Ability to change clip MIDI trigger properties also on empty slot (Actually exactly like it's currently done for scenes), so you won't need to map everything over and over when creating a new project and you'll be able to create empty preset projects for your controller.
2. Ability to choose MIDI SEND trigger message, for controlling LEDs color when the clip is pressed and played (distinguish between clip pending to be triggered and actually playing - for the "blinking" state of a pad / button)
3. For controlling specific LED color, at least on APC40, note velocity is used and I believe this is the case for most of the controllers. Also don't forget to allow for channel selection, which is pretty important too as (again at least APC40) controls LED blinking state based on the MIDI channel on which the note is sent.
4. That said, you should also allow for separate MIDI out for these controller messages, so they won't mix up with the actual notes playing from matrix clips. E.g. Fugue machine have separate MIDI out as AUv3.
5. Then when LK loads, it'll send all these MIDI SEND trigger messages to the controller to initialize the LEDs state. If this could be triggered manually (e.g. when you connect controller after the load), that'd be nice.

Nice to have improvements:

• "Scrolling", or basically navigating, in the matrix from the controller - to set the currently visible area on your controller to not be restricted only on the number of pads on your controller. For that you'd need:

  • Ability to set the matrix size of your controller - number of tracks and scenes.
  • Be able to MIDI map arrows to navigate scene up / down and select next / previous track.
  • If navigating up / down, LK will send all the mapped MIDI sends of all the clips that fit into it's matrix size to the controller, so you'll see the same thing on the controller as in LK.
  • Since you can have LK open a window of any size as AUv3, it would be nice to indicate, which part is currently displayed on the controller, or you'd get easily lost. Ableton Live uses red rectangle around the clips that are currently displayed on the controller.

• Custom mapping of color palette to note velocity per controller somewhere in the settings to indicate that e.g. color red is lit up when note is send with velocity 124.

Still, I am getting to the conclusion, it'd be the best to be able to load some controller setting file in LK preferences. People (or even you) would be able to create those files even without owning the controller, just based on their manual and send to people with less technical skills to test. Such file would contain: 1. List of note/cc numbers with option to set: number, type (note/cc/pc), channel, scene coordinate and track coordinate and velocity. This way you can also detect the size of the matrix. 2. To have flexibility over how various controllers handle blinking state, the same list would go for mapping blinking state and you e.g. just change MIDI channel there (or velocity or so). Then besides these notes list, there would be color mapping to either velocity or other parameter (if you know about other system some controllers use for displaying specific color), something like 'red' : 124 or 'red': { 'velocity': 123 }

There is endless amount of controllers out there that currently support some kind of pads and on light up them on received MIDI messages. Opening the option for people to create their own mapping will save you a lot of time and requests. Not to mention you won't have to add anything new in the UI (maybe except a button to open the mapping file). I'd happily create such mapping for less skilled users and their controllers and I believe here in the community many people would do so. Please, at least give it a try

Thanks for your incredible feedback. I've made a post at the bottom of the thread on why I don't want to choose this path right now.

I see your point, of course some big refactoring does not make sense. But I believe some of the points like having extra MIDI out to be routed in AU host and ability to send specific notes out for each clip trigger / play would help a lot and does not require some fundamental changes. Of course, I get the feature creep issue which always can cause instability and I am totally with you rather having limited but stable app, than an app that does a lot of things, but is unreliable, which is basically useless for people relying on it for live performances.

Nevertheless, I have an idea of an hack to go around this limitation in my setup. Let's see how it goes, I'll keep you informed

ghost_forests

Still using my Tascam 424 mk iii here!

@McD said:

@espiegel123 said:
I'd say Sonic Foundry's Acid (later Sony Acid Pro) got the ball rolling on. It was PC only and until the first version of Live came around several years later, people on the Mac were begging for Acid on the Mac because realtime pitch-shifting/time-stretching of loops wasn't really available -- I think GarageBand's AppleLoops weren't around till a few years after Live hit.

Wow. That's around the time I stopped following Music Making on a PC. When Sony bought
Acid.

I later got a Mac and bought Reason but never really dug into it. It was already into a hardware device simulation that I just didn't get and still need to catch up on. I was and
still am stuck in the Multi-track Tape system with out-board FX. I bought a couple of the
Korg Digital Recording systems and made some projects there using keyboards, guitars, and mics.

ghost_forests

Like Riffer!

Even on a 9.7” iPad in full screen, I don’t think there is enough space to deal with multiple piano roll windows. One (non-trivial but elegant solution) would be multiple layers in the piano roll with each layer’s notes displayed in a different color and edit actions target at the “active” layer.

ghost_forests

Big +1 for this

@PeteSasqwax said:
Launchcontrol XL seems like the most powerful in relation to LK's feature set (full disclosure: yes, I do have one 😉)

branis

@sinosoidal said:

@branis said:
Of course, everybody is going to vote for a controller they own, I'm no different
My vote goes to Launchpad MK2

@sinosoidal If there is any chance of assisting you remotely with adding controller support I'd be more than happy to help

Launchpad MK2 is very similar to Launchpad X, what's the difference?

The biggest difference are the custom modes making the Launchpad X more useful as a you can easily configure it to work with other software/hardware than just Ableton Live. Also, the pads are velocity sensitive.

I think there's not much change in integration with Live if any at all, but I'm not sure about that because I don't use Live. I got my Launchpad MK2 to use it with the Launchpad app where the integration is perfect.

I tried to connect my Launchpad MK2 to LK, but it's not recognized, so for me that's the biggest difference

ghost_forests

Yeah I got the LCXL and Mini 2 to use with the Launchpad app and it’s a ton of fun. Really need to actually start investigating LK as I don’t think I really grasped quite what it was on release!