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Comments

  • jolicojolico

    @Max23 said:

    @jolico said:

    @Max23 said:

    👍

    We already have AI that pulls vocals/bass/drums etc. out of mixed tracks. Hopefully soon we’ll get AI that removes aliasing.

    I wasn't that impressed by the ai demos I heard, it roughly seems to work, but
    it had that "weird underwater fft sound" if you listen closely, if you know what I mean

    But aliasing looks much more consistent than human voices.
    Shouldn’t it be easier to lock on and remove?

  • Blue_MangooBlue_Mangoo

    @jolico said:

    @Max23 said:

    @jolico said:

    @Max23 said:

    👍

    We already have AI that pulls vocals/bass/drums etc. out of mixed tracks. Hopefully soon we’ll get AI that removes aliasing.

    I wasn't that impressed by the ai demos I heard, it roughly seems to work, but
    it had that "weird underwater fft sound" if you listen closely, if you know what I mean

    But aliasing looks much more consistent than human voices.
    Shouldn’t it be easier to lock on and remove?

    We could easily remove aliasing from sine sweeps. But for more complex sounds it can be quite difficult to identify what prt of the signal is aliased. I am not saying it can’t work but it would be MUCH easier to design plugins that don’t alias than to design a plugin that removes aliasing after it’s already in the signal.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited August 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • jolicojolico

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @jolico said:

    @Max23 said:

    @jolico said:

    @Max23 said:

    👍

    We already have AI that pulls vocals/bass/drums etc. out of mixed tracks. Hopefully soon we’ll get AI that removes aliasing.

    I wasn't that impressed by the ai demos I heard, it roughly seems to work, but
    it had that "weird underwater fft sound" if you listen closely, if you know what I mean

    But aliasing looks much more consistent than human voices.
    Shouldn’t it be easier to lock on and remove?

    We could easily remove aliasing from sine sweeps. But for more complex sounds it can be quite difficult to identify what prt of the signal is aliased. I am not saying it can’t work but it would be MUCH easier to design plugins that don’t alias than to design a plugin that removes aliasing after it’s already in the signal.

    I agree, but many plugins are already aliasing like crazy and lots of recordings have been contaminated.
    This would be great for audio restoration.

    Any other solutions besides cpu heavy oversampling?

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    Btw folks, I posted an Audulus patch for generating sine sweeps. I think they are quite clean:

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/656990/#Comment_656990

    If you have Audulus, just record the output in something like AUM than trim. In Auditor or Twisted Wave, it is simple to zoom in and delete the silence before and after.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited August 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • jolicojolico

    @Max23 said:

    @jolico said:

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @jolico said:

    @Max23 said:

    @jolico said:

    @Max23 said:

    👍

    We already have AI that pulls vocals/bass/drums etc. out of mixed tracks. Hopefully soon we’ll get AI that removes aliasing.

    I wasn't that impressed by the ai demos I heard, it roughly seems to work, but
    it had that "weird underwater fft sound" if you listen closely, if you know what I mean

    But aliasing looks much more consistent than human voices.
    Shouldn’t it be easier to lock on and remove?

    We could easily remove aliasing from sine sweeps. But for more complex sounds it can be quite difficult to identify what prt of the signal is aliased. I am not saying it can’t work but it would be MUCH easier to design plugins that don’t alias than to design a plugin that removes aliasing after it’s already in the signal.

    I agree, but many plugins are already aliasing like crazy and lots of recordings have been contaminated.
    This would be great for audio restoration.

    Any other solutions besides cpu heavy oversampling?

    no.
    you could filter everything below the fundamental away,
    but that's just lipstick on a pig. ^^

    Maybe something like Metaplugin by DDMF for oversampling plug-ins that don’t have their own oversampling?
    https://ddmf.eu/metaplugin-chainer-vst-au-rtas-aax-wrapper/

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited August 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Blue_MangooBlue_Mangoo

    @jolico said:

    @Max23 said:

    @jolico said:

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @jolico said:

    @Max23 said:

    @jolico said:

    @Max23 said:

    👍

    We already have AI that pulls vocals/bass/drums etc. out of mixed tracks. Hopefully soon we’ll get AI that removes aliasing.

    I wasn't that impressed by the ai demos I heard, it roughly seems to work, but
    it had that "weird underwater fft sound" if you listen closely, if you know what I mean

    But aliasing looks much more consistent than human voices.
    Shouldn’t it be easier to lock on and remove?

    We could easily remove aliasing from sine sweeps. But for more complex sounds it can be quite difficult to identify what prt of the signal is aliased. I am not saying it can’t work but it would be MUCH easier to design plugins that don’t alias than to design a plugin that removes aliasing after it’s already in the signal.

    I agree, but many plugins are already aliasing like crazy and lots of recordings have been contaminated.
    This would be great for audio restoration.

    Any other solutions besides cpu heavy oversampling?

    no.
    you could filter everything below the fundamental away,
    but that's just lipstick on a pig. ^^

    Maybe something like Metaplugin by DDMF for oversampling plug-ins that don’t have their own oversampling?
    https://ddmf.eu/metaplugin-chainer-vst-au-rtas-aax-wrapper/

    If only iOS audio units could be hosts to other audio units.

  • jolicojolico

    @Max23 said:

    @jolico said:

    @Max23 said:

    @jolico said:

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @jolico said:

    @Max23 said:

    @jolico said:

    @Max23 said:

    👍

    We already have AI that pulls vocals/bass/drums etc. out of mixed tracks. Hopefully soon we’ll get AI that removes aliasing.

    I wasn't that impressed by the ai demos I heard, it roughly seems to work, but
    it had that "weird underwater fft sound" if you listen closely, if you know what I mean

    But aliasing looks much more consistent than human voices.
    Shouldn’t it be easier to lock on and remove?

    We could easily remove aliasing from sine sweeps. But for more complex sounds it can be quite difficult to identify what prt of the signal is aliased. I am not saying it can’t work but it would be MUCH easier to design plugins that don’t alias than to design a plugin that removes aliasing after it’s already in the signal.

    I agree, but many plugins are already aliasing like crazy and lots of recordings have been contaminated.
    This would be great for audio restoration.

    Any other solutions besides cpu heavy oversampling?

    no.
    you could filter everything below the fundamental away,
    but that's just lipstick on a pig. ^^

    Maybe something like Metaplugin by DDMF for oversampling plug-ins that don’t have their own oversampling?
    https://ddmf.eu/metaplugin-chainer-vst-au-rtas-aax-wrapper/

    I guess that adds a lot of maybe it will work maybe it doesnt?
    if your plugin doesnt react to a higher sample rate in your daw, why should it work here?
    its just another host

    Any ideas for a solution to our problem?

  • FingolfinzzzFingolfinzzz

    @jolico said:

    Maybe something like Metaplugin by DDMF for oversampling plug-ins that don’t have their own oversampling?
    https://ddmf.eu/metaplugin-chainer-vst-au-rtas-aax-wrapper/

    I don’t know much about audio engineering so sorry if this is a dumb question but would adding an au that has oversampling at the end of a chain like Pro L do anything to fix aliasing?

    I’ve been reading through this thread objectively with a lot of fascination

  • Blue_MangooBlue_Mangoo

    @Fingolfinzzz said:

    @jolico said:

    Maybe something like Metaplugin by DDMF for oversampling plug-ins that don’t have their own oversampling?
    https://ddmf.eu/metaplugin-chainer-vst-au-rtas-aax-wrapper/

    I don’t know much about audio engineering so sorry if this is a dumb question but would adding an au that has oversampling at the end of a chain like Pro L do anything to fix aliasing?

    I’ve been reading through this thread objectively with a lot of fascination

    Oversampling works because aliasing is less audible when the sample rate is higher. In order for it to work, the effect that produces the aliasing must be running at a higher sample rate. If you do the upsampling after the aliasing has already occurred, it would not improve the situation.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited August 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • FingolfinzzzFingolfinzzz

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @Fingolfinzzz said:

    @jolico said:

    Maybe something like Metaplugin by DDMF for oversampling plug-ins that don’t have their own oversampling?
    https://ddmf.eu/metaplugin-chainer-vst-au-rtas-aax-wrapper/

    I don’t know much about audio engineering so sorry if this is a dumb question but would adding an au that has oversampling at the end of a chain like Pro L do anything to fix aliasing?

    I’ve been reading through this thread objectively with a lot of fascination

    Oversampling works because aliasing is less audible when the sample rate is higher. In order for it to work, the effect that produces the aliasing must be running at a higher sample rate. If you do the upsampling after the aliasing has already occurred, it would not improve the situation.

    Okay yeah that makes, it’d be like throwing a bandaid on the problem

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @Fingolfinzzz said:

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @Fingolfinzzz said:

    @jolico said:

    Maybe something like Metaplugin by DDMF for oversampling plug-ins that don’t have their own oversampling?
    https://ddmf.eu/metaplugin-chainer-vst-au-rtas-aax-wrapper/

    I don’t know much about audio engineering so sorry if this is a dumb question but would adding an au that has oversampling at the end of a chain like Pro L do anything to fix aliasing?

    I’ve been reading through this thread objectively with a lot of fascination

    Oversampling works because aliasing is less audible when the sample rate is higher. In order for it to work, the effect that produces the aliasing must be running at a higher sample rate. If you do the upsampling after the aliasing has already occurred, it would not improve the situation.

    Okay yeah that makes, it’d be like throwing a bandaid on the problem

    More like it would be putting a band-aid far away from the injury. It isn't that it is a band-aid (i.e. not sufficient to make a different), it is that it can't possibly fix the aliasing and would only drive up CPU use.

  • FingolfinzzzFingolfinzzz

    @espiegel123 Yeah that makes sense I guess it have to boil down to how the plug-in was developed

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @Max23 said:

    @Fingolfinzzz said:

    @jolico said:

    Maybe something like Metaplugin by DDMF for oversampling plug-ins that don’t have their own oversampling?
    https://ddmf.eu/metaplugin-chainer-vst-au-rtas-aax-wrapper/

    I don’t know much about audio engineering so sorry if this is a dumb question but would adding an au that has oversampling at the end of a chain like Pro L do anything to fix aliasing?

    I’ve been reading through this thread objectively with a lot of fascination

    that doesnt change what "went wrong" before

    oh people dont understand what internal oversampling of a plug in does?
    it pushes the artifacts above what you are able to hear than its downsampled again, so all the junk we cant hear anyway is cut up. resulting in a sound with less artifacts

    its not witchcraft, but this is complicated DSP
    nothing you can expect from nooby programmers.
    making pretty pictures / UI to sell your plugin is way easier. ;) >:)
    that's why a lot of stuff isnt as great as their adds want to make you believe ;)

    I'd be very interested, Max, in hearing which plugins you think have nice UIs but also have aliasing problems.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited August 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • jolicojolico

    @Max23 said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @Max23 said:

    @Fingolfinzzz said:

    @jolico said:

    Maybe something like Metaplugin by DDMF for oversampling plug-ins that don’t have their own oversampling?
    https://ddmf.eu/metaplugin-chainer-vst-au-rtas-aax-wrapper/

    I don’t know much about audio engineering so sorry if this is a dumb question but would adding an au that has oversampling at the end of a chain like Pro L do anything to fix aliasing?

    I’ve been reading through this thread objectively with a lot of fascination

    that doesnt change what "went wrong" before

    oh people dont understand what internal oversampling of a plug in does?
    it pushes the artifacts above what you are able to hear than its downsampled again, so all the junk we cant hear anyway is cut up. resulting in a sound with less artifacts

    its not witchcraft, but this is complicated DSP
    nothing you can expect from nooby programmers.
    making pretty pictures / UI to sell your plugin is way easier. ;) >:)
    that's why a lot of stuff isnt as great as their adds want to make you believe ;)

    I'd be very interested, Max, in hearing which plugins you think have nice UIs but also have aliasing problems.

    I didnt buy much the last years and Im not interested in pretty pictures, so I wont be of much help here
    so instead of shaming people I prefer to tell you what really rocks.
    I like no nonsense UIs like airwindows does. just some faders and listen!

    these pretty picture UIs are irritating
    they sound much better if u look at them ^^
    airwindows is great, he knows his shit

    that channel plugin alone is pure audio magic 😍
    I use it on almost everything

    Can’t find airwindows in the AppStore.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • FingolfinzzzFingolfinzzz

    @Max23 I just checked those out, I’ll try them out later, they look like they’ll be great. No pun intended.

  • jolicojolico

    Grand Finale
    Preset: Nice Pop

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @jolico said:
    Grand Finale
    Preset: Nice Pop

    what happens if you lower the level of the signal going into the plug-in. Using presets without doing any input volume adjustment may result in artifacts that you wouldn't get if the input level were adjusted.

  • jolicojolico

    @espiegel123 said:

    @jolico said:
    Grand Finale
    Preset: Nice Pop

    what happens if you lower the level of the signal going into the plug-in. Using presets without doing any input volume adjustment may result in artifacts that you wouldn't get if the input level were adjusted.

    Here is the same preset with -6db on the input and -6db on the output

  • wimwim
    edited August 2020

    We need an FX app that strips out the real signal and just leaves the aliasing to add some flavor to boring tracks.

  • noobnoob
    edited August 2020

    https://www.wavtones.com/functiongenerator.php
    https://www.audiocheck.net/audiofrequencysignalgenerator_sweep.php
    https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_aliasing.php
    https://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_highdefinitionaudio.php

  • jolicojolico

    @wim said:
    We need an FX app that strips out the real signal and just leaves the aliasing.

    Apparently we have many of those.

  • jolicojolico

  • wimwim

    That's wat I'm talkin' about. I need some mud in my beatz.

  • wimwim
    edited August 2020

    Ten years from now we'll be paying good money for apps with advanced aliasing emulation for that "vintage digital" sound.

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