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Comments
But the simulated aliasing will only go down to 10kHz so that it doesn’t sound like complete garbage to their spoiled alias-free ears.
You don’t have to wait ten years. A plugin like that released just last month and people were very excited about it. I think there is an iOS version. I can’t find the link or remember the name though.
😂😂
Flynth doing some 'Nick Batt' (PWM)
The major advantage to me is that with a non-antialiased waveform like a mathematically clean sawtooth wave, you can draw any waveform inside Drambo by just adding a Graphic Shaper module after the oscillator.
With an antialiased waveform it's impossible to do that without artifacts.
Load my Drambo Processor rack preset:
Processor rack > Presets > Factory > Fx > Mirage
and add a few modules to extract the FX-only sound like this:
Wow. That’s very interesting.
I have been working these past few days to smooth out the jagged marks that appear when the spectrogram runs in real time but disappear when you pause and scroll. We made some changes a few days before release that caused that error and now we are trying to fix it.
Nice.
The above image is accurate though.
Those wobbles are not graphics glitches. (Just to be clear for those that may wrongly interpret your comment about the jagged marks as being the cause)
Why would you not expect to see wobbles in a cassette simulator that ... simulates a wobbly motor? And artifacts around the signal in something that simulates less than perfect tape, dirty heads, low quality electronics, etc?
I think you’ve lost your way here bud. But, I’ll quit tweaking you and leave you to your crusade. ✌️
You seem to have something against me.
It looks like you always interpret my posts as wrong or even offensive before even reading or understanding them.
It feels like I’m being bullied for NOT being a flat-earther.
Nope. Read, understood, disagree. Nothing personal. I tried to do it with a bit of humor. I underestimated how serious you take this. I apologize. I’ve made a note to not chime in if I disagree with you in the future. I do not want anyone to feel bullied.
Calling people who don’t agree with you flat earthers is kind of silly, IMO, but OK.
There are some genuine graphics glitches going on in addition to the wobbles that the tape simulation adds. However, they disappear when you pause and scroll the screen. in the images @jolico posted from those tape sim plugins, he has paused before taking the screenshot so the only wobbles you can see are genuine tape sim wobble.
I think these kind of misunderstandings could be avoided if every time a pic is posted there is just one sentence of text stating the conclusion. That way, no one has to second guess.
edited
I must admit i find it interesting to see the effect of plugin on the spectrogram - it‘s not about the gothic cathedrals of anti-aliasing when not doing oversampling. This thread interests me because its cool to see, what type of effect does what to a sweep and then to think about why it looks this way.
And i think thats what @jolico wanted to show with his images
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Here for instance the ‚omissions‘ in the spectogram show the effect of phase cancelation of a zeeon preset with enabled phaser. Switch the phaser off and the darker parts are gone.
I’m still unsure, if the phaser lfo uses triangle or a sine, i assume triangle because i imagine the turning points to be not that sharp, but flatter when using a sine to mod the phaser
I need to find a synth or fx with phaser and flanger, just to see the different cancelations - or does a flanger do amplifications ?
That IS interesting. I haven't seen the effect of a phaser visualized like that before. Do you know what causes those diamond shapes? That isn't from the phaser, right?
The zeeon sound also uses reverb thats where the white noisy background comes from - it makes the phasing stand out a lot more.
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I didn‘t have the time to setup a comparison between phasing and flanging - but i imagine that flanging will do amplifications instead (just from the sound of it)
I am still working on fixing those glitches up. Yesterday I re-wrote the code for the third time.
W> @wim said:
Not as serious as you think and “bullied” may have been a bit much.
It’s just a little annoying when someone constantly speaks to you in a condescending manner for no reason other than sharing useful information for free.
Also, this thread is about interesting findings in spectrograms.
It was not meant to be an “Emperor has no clothes” thread. I still love and use Drambo and Toneboosters apps. I’m just more careful with the settings now.
Some sounds build nice city scapes like in ‚Digi Drops‘ from the Cinebient10 presets:
Thats probably the result of rectangular filter tone mod and triangluar filter freq mod, the little glitches in the background are added by the phaser and delay fx of this preset.
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Without fx, the structure is more clear:
The vertical ‚beams‘ correspond to the pulsing klicks that are audible. They get washed out by the added fx.
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But why the spectrogram seems sharper than when played an octave below ?
Perhaps that‘s some kind of visual blurring, because the harmonics are now spaced nearer together and there are’n enough pixels for the darker gaps, so the spectrogram looks a bit more blurry ?
>
Yes. That’s right.
Also, you’ll notice that waveforms that have sharp corners loose focus when the wavelength is longer than the spectrogram analysis window or when it’s long enough to take up a significant part of it.
For example, an unfiltered Low frequency saw wave has two parts: a long, gradually slanted part and a short part that is almost a straight vertical with sharp corners at both ends. If the wavelength of that saw wave is so long that you get the long slanted part of the wave on one Column of pixels in the Spectrogram and the short vertical part on the next column of pixels then the short Vertical part looks like the clicks in the image you posted above and the long slanted part doesn’t look like anything at all. The result is that for those low frequency saw waves you see vertical lines on the spectrogram rather than horizontal. Any waveform with sharp corners does something similar. As you go from high frequency to lower frequency there is a transition from horizontal to vertical lines when the wavelength is near the analysis window length. You will see the horizontal lines getting blurry as you approach that transition point.
When you zoom out all the way this spectrogram uses an analysis window of length 4096 samples. At 48 Khz sample rate that corresponds to a frequency of 4800/4096 = 11.7Hz But anything down below 50 Hz starts to get blurry.
There is a tradeoff between analysis window length and resolution. You can make the horizontal lines more clear and precise by using a longer window but each window only generates one column of pixels in the output so if you make your windows really long it means the picture gets blurry on the horizontal axis.
We have to decide whether its more important to have clarity in the vertical or horizontal direction because they can’t both be clear at the same time.
4096 samples is a good length for zoomed-out spectrogram because it can resolve on the vertical axis with reasonable clarity down to 50 Hz and still has enough horizontal resolution to generate 20 distinguishable columns per second.
We are working on adding a spectrum view that will give you a more precise view of the frequencies in your sound but it will have an analysis window length of 8192 pixels, which would be too blurry on the horizontal axis if used in a spectrogram.
Stairways.
Poison-202 saw wave lfo filter sweep
Poison-202 pwm wave lfo filter sweep
Thanks for the explanation, helped a lot in understanding whats going on visually (and technically
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Spectrum view will be a nice addition as it allows to compare the loudness of each frequency component.
The Oscilloscope is already a very handy tool, that would make it even better 👍🏼
Here a comparison between phaser and flanger, using the NOISE source of iVCS and the Modley multifx from Klevgränd that featured both FX:
For the Phaser, the number of stages corresponds to the number of darker frequency cancelation bands, the feedback is dialed back, so that no amplification occurs and the mix between phased and original signal needs to be equal for the cancelations to be strongest:
The Flanger also does cancelations and i assume that the passing signal are a bit amplified, but there are a lot more bands (and they are perhaps differently spaced) than in the phaser:
When turning up the number of stages of the Phaser and adding feedback, the signal looks and sounds more like the flanger:
👍
And because that looked different than what we saw with the Zeeon Phaser, i investiaged a bit more.
Here a pure noise patch with open filter running into Zeeons Phaser FX:
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For Zeeon, the frequency cancelation is only visible if combining the channels - here the same spetrogram with separate channel display. There is just a tiny, tiny hint of frequency omissions:
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So, Zeeons Phaser FX does its cancelation in the stereo field - when summing the channels to mono - or when listening to both of them.
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If one turns up the feedback and views both channels, one can also see that one channel runs with upward freq modulation, while the other uses the same modulation source but for downward freq modulation:
And we can deduct that its a three stage phaser