Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
What is Loopy Pro? — Loopy Pro is a powerful, flexible, and intuitive live looper, sampler, clip launcher and DAW for iPhone and iPad. At its core, it allows you to record and layer sounds in real-time to create complex musical arrangements. But it doesn’t stop there—Loopy Pro offers advanced tools to customize your workflow, build dynamic performance setups, and create a seamless connection between instruments, effects, and external gear.
Use it for live looping, sequencing, arranging, mixing, and much more. Whether you're a live performer, a producer, or just experimenting with sound, Loopy Pro helps you take control of your creative process.
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Current state of the iOS music app market.
What are people options on the current state of iOS music apps market.
Has the market reached saturation point do we have everything thing we need now to make tunes!?
Have the big players ie IK Multimedia / Korg/ Yamaha /Arturia stopped releasing new apps, or have they lost faith in the market ? All 3 were quite active 5 years ago.
How do indie developers judge the market is it healthy or a long passing fad?
Have we passed the heyday of the music app?
What influence will Apple have if cross platform MAC OS iOS combine?
Will the iPad become the future MBP?
Comments
Good topic! I hope I'm not jumping away from main topic...but I would like to know how can i secure apps from not being able to run in the future ( let's say 5 years from now) . Do i need to keep same IpadOs and not update ? Protocols changing? Auv3's vs. whatever might come....?
@Sergiu yes, that‘s the proper way... dedicate an iPad to be ‚frozen‘ and keep it off the internet (in case you want to prevent accidental updates).
I‘m time and again amazed whenever I switch to my iPad-1 how lean earlier IOS versions were.
I think releasing DAWs is pretty over with. It's hard for a new one to compete with the current market.
I think we're going to see a steady migration of Desktop vendors moving towards IOS as the
core body of users moves. There will always be pros that can spend whatever it takes to get the best software but even pros will look for labor saving and cost effective tools to get the work done.
Protools was a studio requirement... now it's just a solid desktop for a studio. And the next
massively successful batch of pop stars might be making products in their hotel rooms on iPads. Mobility will slowly trump scale as a core requirement.
wow... couldn't disagree more.
The only sentence I kinda agree with is the next gen pop stars
Still a huge vacuum in the market for an actual, honest to god real life synthesizer app with full MPE support that isn't a nightmare to actually use with MPE controllers
Also, SWAM apps have yet to be released.
After that I can't see myself buying any more new shimmer reverbs or anything like that so it feels kind of end gamey
Back then, The only thing that set IPads apart from computers
was that feeling of creating sounds and music all the while touching, swiping that screen.
That was the best excitement I had back in the heydays of IOS music.
But That was from 2010 till 2014.
We all felt we were spoilt back then.
Although I come and read y’’all everyday here,
I feel like an old member of some obscure private geeky club
IOS music IMHO is now miles away from its pleasures It brought
and we first expressed and the hopes we had...
Back then.
O Appoholic, where art thou ?
In the last 2 years we got:
FabFilter
Tone Boosters
OverLoud
Nembrini
Eventide
But you have every right to my opinion. What do you think we'll add in the next 3?
Go ahead and share your forecast. No one will ever check anyway. It's just a vision.
What about taking in consideration peripherals ( midi controllers and stuff)... plenty for desktop , but not sure if same dedication only for iOS ... I do feel dedicated controllers for specific daws/apps would make a difference. Imagine a dedicated controller just for Drambo ( with detachable modules that can be rearranged based on a specific patch ) or expressive board for mpe.
You might say they already exist ... but those were never developed and built specially for iOS ( Ableton Push is an example ).
I would like to see an IOS ableton push of some sorts.
I think for many people, music creation apps are discretionary spending and have more in common with similar sorts of discretionary spending such as going out to eat. While there are a multitude of apps available, if an app is appealing enough in terms of what it can do versus a similar app, many will decide to give it a shot.
Others will focus on learning how to use the apps they already have and be increasingly reluctant to buy another app.
Nevertheless, since the purchase of many apps isn’t a huge financial commitment, it might be an easier sell than a more expensive desktop/laptop app which also has more development and marketing put into it.
Social media sites which cover mobile music creation will be increasingly important as users will turn to them to get an idea of what an app is about or how it might work for them or not. This sector has moved beyond one app reviews. Frequently there are tutorials, demos creating songs with apps, and using the app in conjunction with other apps and hardware.
There are also younger people who start down the path of music creation and do not begin by having hundreds of apps. Outside of subscriptions, it seems most of the income for apps is generated in the first month after its release. This should mean that the budding user market should have a strong influence on many developers whereas the jaded hundreds of apps users who think do I really need another app will have less influence with the exception of niche app markets. Given the demographics of frequent posters here, their wants, desires, and predictions may be less significant as their needs frequently don’t line up with the larger music creation app market.
In some respects, there will never be a 100% cross over from macOS to iOS/iPadOS due to differences in screen sizes and the touch interface. As we’ve already seen, many of the functions previously the exclusive domain of laptops or desktops can now be done on mobile devices. The upshot of this trend is there will be a similar generational change similar to hardware studio to computer based workflow to mobile device workflow for fledgling music creators. Consequently in concert with the increased capability of mobile devices, more computer based software developers will offer their products as apps on mobile devices. There are likely to be winners and losers among app developers with respect to increased compatibility between macOS and iPadOS/iOS.
There seem to be several types of indie developers— hobbyists who do it as a labor of love but not anything they can earn a living from, some focus on Apple mobile apps as a full time job, and developers of multiple OS platform apps.
The traditional DAWs or apps like Gadget are much more difficult to develop, document, support, and update. There are still major DAWs that have yet to appear. I believe at some point this will happen, not at all clear as to when though.
Major music hardware manufacturers will increase their focus on integrating their hardware with mobile devices to maintain their competitiveness and relevance in the market place. This doesn’t mean they’ll all go the route of a company like a Korg, it might be as simple as adding hardware compatibility features or apps that extend or improve the functionality and compatibility of their hardware.
The iOS market is, and will continue to be, a space to innovate in for apps that can leverage the form factor and unique interface that a mobile touch interface like a ipad or iphone.
For me the most successful apps have been the ones that either capitalized on the touch interface, like Samplr, or the ones that realized that there wasn't the physical space nor the cognitive load for a desktop app and accordingly simplified and automated ways around the mobile constraints. Sound Prism was one from years ago that always stood out for me in this regard. There are several others.
I never really understood why some desktop paradigms keep proliferating on mobile interfaces. Straight ports are always a mess. I'm looking at you every single DAW on iOS.
Processing power of mobile devices will only increase as will some features, and software development should become at least more cross pollinated with desktop software as Apple shifts to desktop ARM processors.
I think we have everything we NEED to make make music. It is now a matter of refinement to iron out the kludges and work arounds. Apps like Mozaic go a long way to help as do non traditional mixers like AUM and ApeMatrix.
I would love to see more apps with the simplicity of Nodebeat that can be combined either in a modular fashion to other apps or that have their own expanding functionality (that get paid for) to increase their flexibility.
For example lets take Nodebeat. Having Nodebeat internally record midi in a buffer like manner, of say 5 minutes, and then having that available for export to a DAW or an internal editor would be great.
iOS is missing convenience of flexible production that a desktop offers and the simple glue that makes moving shit around easy. It still is a viable option in that area, just at a cost of time and frustration.
I have no idea where those people exist, but they certainly don’t reside here on the AB Forum! 🤗
We seem to be getting more MIDI control products: Sensel Morph, Roli Blocks, and all the MIDI based pad/key/knob surfaces.
@echoopera has made something very close to what you want by mapping a standard device.
It's too easy to build one for Mac/PC and IOS so why just IOS.
We all want to see some of those Ableton innovations on IOS. I can see them making a move at some point. Hopefully, better than what Propellerheads tried to do with an IOS gateway
toy to sell more Reason licenses. But they could just treat it as a peripheral in the first phase
for the same reasons Reason did... cash cows get the focus.
I think we're a few years away from Apple really bringing a great DAW to IOS so Ableton would be a welcome player.
If anyone has a LaunchPad X and would like the layout here it is:
https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0yOcLGU3RZoDytOy5FRnDypnQ#Drambo_Setup
I believe being too early is as bad as being too late the same way as being to hot is the same as being too cold. It’s all about ‘Goldilocks’ zone.
It’s all about suppliers being able to connect with buyers/users etc. a lot of the early early folks were shooting in the dark and early adopters were doing the same. No expectations.
Auv3 really changed everything though. It made iOS a real contender as a desktop replacement. And everything affects everything else. Cubasis 3 being universal changes things, same as NanoStudio 2, and these apps were simply hard to imagine being implemented and working the way they do, as efficiently as they do, today, back then.
I’d say that we are in a special period where the iOS quality of apps is far higher than the price they currently go for. There honestly needs to be a market correction of some sort. Either on the desktop side or iOS side as more apps become 1:1 with each side and iOS devices becomes more powerful. So I think we are in the best time to be alive per $ spent in terms of power we get from iOS. Every $ spent here is 10x that on desktop. There’s very little bloat, scams, & dissatisfaction between iOS music app developer & end user.
iOS currently has the small town charm, with the people good at reading futures and trajectories understanding what this will be. I.E young Bitcoin, or a young Los Angeles.
I’m beyond satisfied with the current state of the iOS market.
(i think you mean opinions)
Hell no!
We did before iOS existed.
Haven’t been paying attention. The things I am interested in come from the smaller operations.
Some seem to be doing well. Like most modern successes I think it is probably about finding their own groove/niche and not just following a template.
Hell no! (Although I don’t actually really know what qualifies as a heyday...)
I think whatever is on iOS is mostly because of Apple.
I doubt it.
When lockdown is over globally the ipad will be our travelling vaccine. When we all are fully let out of caveman / cavewoman status. I have noticed the resurfacing of desktop posts since lockdown. I recently attempted a Pro Tools & Logic session and was bored using that damn mouse.
Yah I still can't get very excited with desktop sessions done from scratch anymore. Day job and tapping on glass has killed any mouse love. I am going to try doing some Xequence2 / Laptop on the couch sessions this weekend to see if I can get a best of both worlds dealio thingy majiggy going on.
Yup, different boat, same sea....
These big players I think work as any established big companies in any industry. They have business plans for 1, 3, 5 years, they have revenue, profit, market share, etc targets. All these companies want to see these numbers growing.
They have to and they want to be innovative, because this is the key for growth. They watch the market, conduct market surveys, they do internal workshops, etc and they end up with a few (even 1 or 2 only) potential future product they're goint to develop. They have the planned cost and the expected revenue of these future product
Then invest the money for the development, product marketing and hope the new product meet the expectation.
If the new product does not deliver the expected numbers within the planned timeframe, they're not going to 'waste' further money for it. Because of the business nature they will focus on products that deliver the expected profit and focus on the ones that worth to be further developed.
Maybe that's the case with these companies. They invested a lot of money, but these apps do not bring the expected revenue, they can't sell enough 'copies', etc, despite we enthusiasts think that these apps are very good.
I think the challenge in this corporate environment with a team of 3, 5, 10, whatever (but limited) number of people responsible for new products is that no matter how creative they are, they not neceassarily will be the ones who come up with the breakthrough idea which changes the market. Not because they are not good, but simply how it works in a standard corporate structure.
If you mean the small, independent 'one man show' developers, their challenge (I think) is they have very limited budget for product marketing, they might lack of pricing strategies, and they don't get enough income from these projects to work on them full-time.
How many times I read from devs 'if I have some spare time I do it/finish it, etc.'... They might have other (non-music) projects or/and full-time job, where majority of their income comes from and what they have to focus on. And that's OK, we all work like this.
However the breakthrough innovations are coming from them, just think about AUM. And not because they are smarter than the guys who work in a big company, but this is how innovation works in my opinion.
Many-many people, many-many ideas and only a very few out of them which will be really groundbraking or (potentially) successful in the market. So these few ideas (by the law of large numbers) are not necessarily coming from corporate people.
My opinion is that the big companies should take up these innovative developers and their ideas, put the proper marketing and pricing stratgy behind. They should let these guys work full-time on these projects by giving them a fixed, competitive salary, plus revenue share from the sold apps, IAPs or subscription fees.
Nanostudio and its dev could be a good candidate for this cooperation model in my opinion. Very good concept, excellent implementation, but no updates or new features, maybe because of lack of free time.
At least this is how I see.
By the way, do you guys have an idea how many downloads a typical 10-20$ music app (synth, efx or daw) can achieve? Is it hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands?
Lock down has made me fire up the laptop again, and I am enjoying the simplicity of everything working and file movement so easy.
So the ipad has taken a back seat, as someone mentioned, once back at work, ipad will get used more.
Am now treating the ipad as Instruments, make something I like, move audio or midi to laptop.
So am now happier with the constraints, rather than fighting to achieve, get this talking with that, etc
Am now at peace with my ipad
And my music making has also increased
I got into the iPad last year, and while I do have my gripes with MPE, the ipad still feels pretty fucking magical and revolutionary to me. As long as people keep spending $1,000+ on things like the op-1, I'm gonna feel like I've got this magic wand that the rest of the world hasn't woken up to yet
The only thing I’d say I miss is real, dedicated physical controls. But then I do the value vs cost thing in my head and it’s like “Man it makes a lot more sense to just pick up a controller and use it with the iPad” instead of spending some unholy amount on hardware I can’t justify to myself (or wife)
I’m of the same mindset as you. I have been into iPad music making for a couple months, and the value of these apps at their cost is just insane. I’m coming the perspective from being a guitar pedal addict and what you can get from a $10 delay app outclasses almost everything on the market outside of the Strymon/Empress/Meris types. Even then, you can get pretty close to those pedals with combos of apps or in Drambo. I love Drambo so much.
I’m trying to be intentional with my purchases and not wind up with a bunch of apps, because it’s not like I can flip them if I don’t like them. Just comparitively it’s night and day in terms of investment. I’m having the most fun making music I’ve had in years.
I see several branches of interest quite a bit different but each of us might blend them sometimes. There are live performers who would need sounds, loopers, effects, etc. but then you can also use these to produce your own audio recordings with DAWs and mixers.
But for me the primary interest is using ios as a portable sketchpad for midi files that I can then edit, for example, in Xequence. So I’m a sucker for any kind of new midi generator, sequencer, arp, chords and scales. That has been amazingly useful for me.
But my main point is that if I really have something I want to seriously work on I must do that on my Mac with my particular DAW, Digital Performer. I ipad screen is just too small for serious work and the touch interface, which works great as a sketchpad can be fidgety for detailed work. (Although I really admire Xequence’s interface.)
But one thing in particular that is missing from iOS apps, as far as I know, is the ability for “tempo mapping” which I think is essential for natural sounding music. A relentless fixed beat is just tiring to my brain. When you play actual drums, for example, there is going to be natural rubato. It’s part of expressivity.
Tempo mapping was available on digital performer way back when it was first made on Macs with much slower, tinier processors so it’s not like the ipad wouldn’t be up to the task; wouldn’t it?
Which is all to say I think there’s more to come in apps.
I still feel after all this time that there is room for improvement in the daw/host area.
We still dot not have a host that fully supports all the AUv3 features including support for multi in/out, automation recording and editing which I feel are needed so that the developers can fully verify the functionality of their plug-ins...
While AUM and apeMatrix are nice as 'hosts' they do lack the integrated recording, automation & editing which for me is what breaks them for more in-depth tweaking.
Who knows, maybe we'll see some kind of change sooner rather than later...
i love apps and i love hardware. i hate making music on a computer/laptop.
the ipad kinda makes you feel like you’re using hardware but in a different way as obviously there are no physical knobs/sliders/keys but you do get to “touch it” and interact without a mouse, ugh the dreaded mouse 🤣
i’m quite happy with where we are in terms of midi effects, audio effects and synths.
i don’t necessarily make technical music or deep complex midi expressions. for those that do i can see ios is lacking things to make that doable without a zillion work arounds.
for me jamming on a synth or running a midi sequence is very available in the way i enjoy to do it, and arranging songs is getting easier everyday. i think the hardest thing is that initial process, figuring out a way to go from an idea to a way to arrange it and trying multiple apps to get there.... ableton would be great, but we don’t have it so i don’t dwell on it. ios is at a modular state where every app is great at a few things but can’t do the other things you need... so you start in one environment then move to another.
it’s kinda fun imo... ideally for me aum would become that all in one environment that lets you work just like we do but then have a way to arrange it into a song like a daw. it can be done as is but is def not quite there in terms of a linear arranger... and i don’t think the developer is interested in going that path, so i respect that and find a way to use other apps to achieve it.
my overall opinion... ios is spectacular. i love it and will continue with it for as long as it exists. there’s a lot of trial and error and is to bad only a couple companies let you demo before you buy... i think that’sa big turn off to people, they bought the wrong thing thinking it was the right thing and don’t want to keep spending until they strike gold and that makes sense. i hope for ways to demo and donate to developers down the road where apple isn’t taking money from them, and we aren’t stuck buying something that isn’t what we thought it was.
Great discussion. @Paulinko, you left out the preset crowd. I am interested in just that amount of tech that allows me to get my tracks down. With contributors like @Spidericemidas, there is never a dearth of new sounds to integrate.
I think you might say iOS is a jack of all trades and master of some. Cubasis 3, BM3, Drambo, Gadget, AUM all provide different recording experiences, but whatever you choose you can make it happen. The FX area seems to be the place we are getting closer to desktop professionalism. Acoustic instruments have a ways to go. Synths get better and better. Sure, it idn’t the Wild West early adopters reminisce about, but the buffet is far broader now and more users can find their needs met in a heaping plateful of inexpensive apps.
That being said, I just bought my first vst piano in hopes of finding a better piano than the, quite able, Ravenscroft 275.