Share your side-chain set-ups and tips

McD

Side-chaining works wonders make a project come alive. Please share your tips and tricks for this studio technique.

jolico

If you only want to sidechain the lows of a channel or bus and keep the rest of the frequencies from pumping, you can use WOOTT as a frequency splitter and put your compressor only on the low channel with the kick as sidechain input.

jwmmakerofmusic

For me, these days I tend to use sidechaining sparingly. It all depends on the genre really. In Dance music, I tend to sidechain the bass(es) and pads to the kickdrum (or kick and snare if a genre like Dubstep) and let everything else breathe. However, if it's a genre that's like Future House or Big Room (such as the Lucas & Steve/Don Diablo/KSHMR style), then I also tend to sidechain the lead. It all depends.

For example, in this track https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/40863/asian-disco-crossover-track I only sidechained the bassline and the distorted electric piano. In this track https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/39626/grecian-big-room-bouzouki#latest I sidechained the instruments to the kickdrum.

Anyways, sometimes in vocal productions, I also group all of the backing instruments of an arrangement into one buss and subtly duck them to the vocals so the vocals pop. It all depends on how dense the backing arrangement is.

@McD how do you usually utilise sidechain?

Tarekith

Best advice I can give is really pay attention to the timing of your attack and release. I hear a lot of tracks lately where the side-chaining is doing that real obvious ducking effect, but the timing is crap and it throws the groove off more than it accents it. Aim to get the off beat locked on tempo, then use the attack to rush or drag it a bit depending on what you're going for. After that, longer releases can give it a more laid back feel, real short releases can add tension.

Less is more, and for heaven's sake, heavily side-chained music when the kick drops out during the song just sounds weird.

McD

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
@McD how do you usually utilise sidechain?

I've only tried it once... when someone told me MDE Stereo and had the feature I tried it and made a demo track. The drum track is side-chained into a Compressor loaded for the other instruments. Every drum note makes the other instruments "back off" so the drums are ever present and not lost in the mix. After 20 seconds I turn the side-chain off for 10 seconds and the drums recede into the mix. At the 30 second mark I flip it back on for the final 10 seconds.

But you can make anything the "center of attention" by side-chaining it into a compressor and muting anything that would complete with it in your mix. I imagine you could use a lot of it.

But this is the most basic of side-chaining techniques and it's relevant to any musical style but something
most of us might assume we control when we automate faders at mix time but no fader will have the
precision of a side-chained effect.

I'm sure some people side-chain drums into reverbs and other FX types and I'm hope they will share their tips.

NOTE: For me this is an AUM exercise but some people do it in Auria Pro too and NS2 and BM2 and more, I guess.

jwmmakerofmusic

@McD said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
@McD how do you usually utilise sidechain?

I've only tried it once... when someone told me MDE Stereo and had the feature I tried it and made a demo track. The drum track is side-chained into a Compressor loaded for the other instruments. Every drum note makes the other instruments "back off" so the drums are ever present and not lost in the mix. After 20 seconds I turn the side-chain off for 10 seconds and the drums recede into the mix. At the 30 second mark I flip it back on for the final 10 seconds.

But you can make anything the "center of attention" by side-chaining it into a compressor and muting anything that would complete with it in your mix. I imagine you could use a lot of it.

But this is the most basic of side-chaining techniques and it's relevant to any musical style but something
most of us might assume we control when we automate faders at mix time but no fader will have the
precision of a side-chained effect.

I'm sure some people side-chain drums into reverbs and other FX types and I'm hope they will share their tips.

NOTE: For me this is an AUM exercise but some people do it in Auria Pro too and NS2 and BM2 and more, I guess.

"and NS2" Guilty.

But man, that's a cool track you did. You should think about expanding that into a full track.

McD

The way you actually assign the connections is key. I was able to figure it out from an image @jolico sent me:

https://forum.audiob.us/uploads/editor/y9/dzvlro6uttx3.png

dendy

sidechaining is interesting when used as ceeative tool... for example put compressor to pad, set attack/decay of compresor cose to zero and feed it's sidechain from hihats track.. turn volume on hihats to zero so you don't hear them they are just sidechainin pad... add delay to the taste after compressor, play with hihat amp attack/decay - you can get very interesting rhytmical patterns on pad...

jolico

@jolico said:
If you only want to sidechain the lows of a channel or bus and keep the rest of the frequencies from pumping, you can use WOOTT as a frequency splitter and put your compressor only on the low channel with the kick as sidechain input.

Also, if you have Toneboosters Compressor, you can do this with one track by selecting the frequency range that needs to be controlled by the sidechain.

McD

What DAW's support side-chaining using traditional mix-busses?

Auria Pro - DONE
AUM - DONE
Cubasis 3 - ?
Nanostudio 2 - ?
Zenbeats - ?
BM3 - 3

I'm beginning to see the benefits of serious mastering being done on Auria Pro. @richardyot has been
trying to get the point across for ages.

I want to try some major side-chaining and prefer NOT to use a private App hacked to open a "private bus"
that could get shut down at some point. I want an Apple approved interconnect. We should be on this issue like we have been harping on AUv3 support. I'm sure most could care less about some obscure studio mixing technique but the demo's of the capability show that it's a "must have". I thought it was only for insuring the "four on the floor" Kick could be set to 11 but it's a lot more subtle and important than that. It's what bring the singer out of the mix. It can be used with splitters to really give you control over
a crowded bland ensemble sound and add clarity. You need to learn this but the DAW's have to add the bussing.

Skyblazer

@McD Not to derail the thread, but I really like that drum track. Which apps did you use for the drum sounds and the MIDI?

McD

@Skyblazer said:
@McD Not to derail the thread, but I really like that drum track. Which apps did you use for the drum sounds and the MIDI?

"Axon 2" which has internal sequencing (so no external MIDI needed). I just hit Play in AUM. @_ki turned me on to Axon2 years ago. In the words of Elton John's Lyricist, Bernie Taupin "Oh but they're weird and they're wonderful". The drum choices in Axon 2 are truly "weird and wonderful". It's a neural network drummer... "12 Monkeys" madness.

Axon 2 is a drum synth driven by artificial intelligence. (Well, "intelligence" might be a strong word. Artificial something-or-other.) An experimental instrument, Axon uses a modified artificial neural network as a sequencer, and features seven FM-based percussion voices, that are really a single 18-operator FM voice.

If that sounds weird, you ain't seen nothing yet. It is surprisingly intuitive once you get the knack of it, and is capable of all-new, complex rhythms that repeat in surprising ways. It often gets referenced as a "random sequence generator," but there is nothing random in Axon; it is entirely determinative.

The sequencer features seven "neurons" that trigger a voice and send a pulse when they have received a predetermined number of pulses. You can wire the output of any neuron to the input of any other (with built-in loop detection to prevent runaway feedback), and in this manner pre-program the artificial neural network without having to go through a "learning" phase.

The seven individual drum voices, each triggered by its attendant neuron, are 2-operator FM voices in a configuration to best make percussion sounds, with additional FM and AM busses that all voices send to and receive from. Each voice has a HPF, distortion circuit, and white noise generator to provide a full range of percussion-oriented voicing individually, while interacting with each other in new and unique ways.

Features

• Artificial Neural Network sequencer features seven neurons, and is easily programmed to create strange new repeating rhythms.

• Seven FM percussion voices that also buss together to create a single monolithic complex percussion synthesizer.

• Full mixer with pan, level, mute, and solo on each voice.

• Built-in stereo delay with X/Y pad control over feedback and filter frequency, for live playability.

• MIDI input, including Bluetooth MIDI, for driving Axon from DAW and hardware sequencers, and Virtual MIDI Output (standalone only) for driving other software with the Axon sequencer.

• Inter-App Audio, including transport synchronization, in standalone mode.

• Internal transport for non-synchronized playback.

• Resizable vector-based user interface.

• Drawn reciprocation dingle arm to reduce sinusoidal depleneration.

• XML-based cross-platform, human-readable preset system, with copy/paste, for easy transferring of your own presets and third-party offerings.

Please Note: This application will work fine on an iPad Mini, but the user interface may be difficult to use due to the size.

Listen to @_ki. He likes EDM and makes some cool tracks too.

ecou

Have you looked into side chain eq. Sounds way more pleasing to my ears. And it’s not a cliche like side chain comp. So far anyway.

McD

@ecou said:
Have you looked into side chain eq. Sounds way more pleasing to my ears. And it’s not a cliche like side chain comp. So far anyway.

Cool. What EQ apps support a side-chain input?

Still hoping to flesh out the matrix of DAWs with Side-Chain capability:

Auria Pro - DONE
AUM - DONE
Cubasis 3 - ?
Nanostudio 2 - ?
Zenbeats - ?
BM3 - ?
GarageBand - ?

Thanks

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

ecou

@McD said:

@ecou said:
Have you looked into side chain eq. Sounds way more pleasing to my ears. And it’s not a cliche like side chain comp. So far anyway.

Cool. What EQ apps support a side-chain input?

Fab filter Pro-Q and Tonebooster EQ

Still hoping to flesh out the matrix of DAWs with Side-Chain capability:

Auria Pro - DONE
AUM - DONE
Cubasis 3 -

Nope for Cubasis - I use Audio damage Pumphouse. It as a grid that you activate where you want the side chaining to be pumping. It works very well.

Nanostudio 2 - ?
Zenbeats - ?
BM3 - 3

Thanks

McD

Still hoping to flesh out the matrix of DAWs with Side-Chain capability:

Auria Pro - DONE
AUM - DONE
Cubasis 3 - NO (Use Pumphouse, Woodpressor or 4Pockets Sidechain Compressor)
Nanostudio 2 - ?
Zenbeats - ?
BM3 - ?
GarageBand - ?

Thanks

cian

With bass I like to sidechain just the frequencies that conflict with the kick. You can either do it with EQ, or with something like Toneboosters compressor. A nice way to have your bass and kick in sync, have a deep bass, but keep the kick clean.

Though sidechaining compression can work well with a distorted drone bass. Sidechain on the kick, play with the release to get some space/groove and add a little delay, or reverb. Can get a nice groove going that way.

Another techno trick. Add a send to your kick drum. On the send channel add reverb and get something quite dark and bassy. Then sidechain that from the kick drum (you can also get a similar effect with the reverb and having the right predelay, but more flexible using sidechain).

Also you can do lots of fun things using sidechain from a muted percussion loop. Everything from applying it to a pad, to messing with reverb, or even sidechaining the output of a delay.

Damn, I wish I was less busy. Want to make some tracks.

McD

@cian said:
With bass I like to sidechain just the frequencies that conflict with the kick.

What DAW are you using?

Emanresu

midiLFOs app - incoming notes triggering the shape with assigned cc like LFOtool on desktop

cian

@McD said:

@cian said:
With bass I like to sidechain just the frequencies that conflict with the kick.

What DAW are you using?

I do it in AUM. Don't think any of the DAWs support this do they?

McD

@cian said:
I do it in AUM. Don't think any of the DAWs support this do they?

Auria Pro does I believe. I know it was a selling point years ago with the FabFilter tools that (at that time)
only ran inside AP. When Fab Filter's FX in AUv3 form shipped they had side-chain settings but (at that time) no DAW was ready to support it. But I think AP added support for the AUv3's to work and hopefully in a way that would work for any multi-input capable FX like Magic Death Eye Stereo. But I have't put those pieces together to see.

cian

If only Auria MIDI wasn't so painful... Or Cubasis support sidechaining, or Nanostudio had audio...

Oh well, recording stems/loops in AUM is fairly painless, and I quite like the way it forces me to keep moving forward.

cian

@Emanresu said:
midiLFO app - incoming notes triggering the shape with assigned cc like miditool on desktop

This sounds like it would be right up my alley if I understood what you were saying

Can you expand on this a little.

espiegel123

@McD : does support side-chain. That was added in the most recent update. BM3's built-in compressor does, but I don't think it supports it for other plug-ins.

I don't have Cubasis 3 but comments from others make me think the answer is that it doesn't support it.

cian

Nanostudio doesn't support side compression in AU3s, though it's own (pretty good) compressor does.

McD

Current status on this thread - only 2 left but they are probably similar to Cubasis3 w/ 3 options.

Auria Pro - DONE
AUM - DONE
Cubasis 3 - NO (Use Pumphouse, Woodpressor or 4Pockets Sidechain Compressor)
Nanostudio 2 - internal compressor does it.
Zenbeats - ?
BM3 - internal compressor does it.
GarageBand - ?

shinyisshiny

Sidechain anything to anything!! If two elements are clashing in a mix, and EQ etc doesnt fix the problem, try a sublte sidechain. Even just 1.5db of ducking can really help.

McD

@shinyisshiny said:
Sidechain anything to anything!! If two elements are clashing in a mix, and EQ etc doesnt fix the problem, try a sublte sidechain. Even just 1.5db of ducking can really help.

But... the DAW's. I'm not going to master until the DAW's catch up and there's solid advice for them on how to use it effectively. I'll go the other way and make simple music that sounds transparent because there's
not a lot going on.

(Don't hold me on this... bad news day).

Emanresu

@cian said:

@Emanresu said:
midiLFO app - incoming notes triggering the shape with assigned cc like LFOtool on desktop

This sounds like it would be right up my alley if I understood what you were saying

Can you expand on this a little.

noob

@Emanresu @cian I use Rozeta XOX for AUM faders, with the range tweaked for subtle moves, basically Perforator DIY