Mozaic Ratchet?

Gavinski

Is there a Mozaic script that will allow you to inset ratchets into incoming midi without changing the notes. Something like the way the ratchet works in ArpBud 2, where you can create sequences with varying numbers of ratchets at each step but without altering the melody?

wim

Why Mozaic? Why not Rhythm Bud?

Gavinski

Rhythm bud doesnt work because then I also need to set up all the rhythm changes and it is very hard to do that with a complex input melody. RhythmBud is not what I'm looking for here. If I use it I need to think about and emulate the exact length of the rhythm sections, then I need to do the ratcheting on top. Looking for just a quick and dirty ratchet job

wim

I don’t see any scripts like that in the list.

Gavinski

OK thanks anyway Wim

Krupa

I’m sure it’s possible but it’s one of the things outstanding on my wish list for the sequencer I’ve been making, I might get back to that soon - I know the metroplex sequencer does it so I was planning to dismember that in order to figure it out...

auxmux

For another Metropolis clone, check out dTroy in miRack for racheting galore.

rs2000

Don't forget our mozaic creations list #2:
https://patchstorage.com/proton-p-locking-sequencer/
https://patchstorage.com/metroplex/
https://patchstorage.com/joc-bouncing-babies/

wim

@auxmux said:
For another Metropolis clone, check out dTroy in miRack for racheting galore.

DTroy doesn’t seem to be doing ratcheting, but rather repeating of steps. Or am I missing something?

With a high enough clock multiple, some of the Impromptu sequencers can do ratcheting.

Gavinski

All I'm looking for would actually be something simple maybe - well, sounds simple to a non-programmer like me but I know in reality that's often not the case. Something that would take incoming notes and never make them longer, but sometimes make them shorter by dividing any note into 2 or 3 or 4 shorter ones. There could maybe be some rules applied, like 'only divide notes between x and y length' etc and it could have some kind of mutation/randomisation functions.

wim

@Gavinski said:
All I'm looking for would actually be something simple maybe - well, sounds simple to a non-programmer like me but I know in reality that's often not the case. Something that would take incoming notes and never make them longer, but sometimes make them shorter by dividing any note into 2 or 3 or 4 shorter ones. There could maybe be some rules applied, like 'only divide notes between x and y length' etc and it could have some kind of mutation/randomisation functions.

Defining the rules would be the deciding factor in how complicated it would be. For instance, That last one wouldn’t be possible. You can’t know how long a note is until it’s done playing. So you can’t divide it unless you defer playing it until after it’s done.

wim

Hey @Gavinski - maybe use StepPolyArp Unit? That has ratchet per step.

Gavinski

@wim said:

@Gavinski said:
All I'm looking for would actually be something simple maybe - well, sounds simple to a non-programmer like me but I know in reality that's often not the case. Something that would take incoming notes and never make them longer, but sometimes make them shorter by dividing any note into 2 or 3 or 4 shorter ones. There could maybe be some rules applied, like 'only divide notes between x and y length' etc and it could have some kind of mutation/randomisation functions.

Defining the rules would be the deciding factor in how complicated it would be. For instance, That last one wouldn’t be possible. You can’t know how long a note is until it’s done playing. So you can’t divide it unless you defer playing it until after it’s done.

Very good point! See you are used to thinking logically about these things in a way that I'm not. I suppose then the nearest rule to that one could come up with would be just setting an overall minimum note length allowed maybe.

I'll take a look at step poly arp for this, thanks.

wim

Or maybe a rhythmic gate is more what you’re looking for. Rather than repeating a note, break up a held note. Maybe something like Perforator.

Actually, I think Effectrix could be just the thing. Yep. Unless I’m misunderstanding what you want to do (again ), that seems like just the ticket.

Jocphone

You might want to try doing it in two steps:

First you have a plugin that extracts the occasional note and routes to a different channel with another plugin.

Then the second plugin could just be anything that generates an arpeggio from a held note, if set fast enough this would provide the ratchet effect.

Jocphone

And depending on what result you want, @brambos Scatter brain or Polythemus might let you try out the idea with one of the VirSyn synths providing the arp functionality built-in.

This would be an easy way to do it without having to program anything.

Edit: Actually sorry I forgot, Scatterbrain routes audio rather than MIDI. Polythemus should be good though.

Also, it would be pretty simple to try something in miRack or Drambo.

Gavinski

@wim said:
Or maybe a rhythmic gate is more what you’re looking for. Rather than repeating a note, break up a held note. Maybe something like Perforator.

Actually, I think Effectrix could be just the thing. Yep. Unless I’m misunderstanding what you want to do (again ), that seems like just the ticket.

True, actually even just Perforator would probably do the job fine in this case instead of getting out the big Looperator/Effectrix guns. Just seemed like something that there might be an interesting Mozaic script for. I'll have a go with Perforator first and see if I get what I'm looking for. Thnx

Gavinski

@Jocphone said:
You might want to try doing it in two steps:

First you have a plugin that extracts the occasional note and routes to a different channel with another plugin.

Then the second plugin could just be anything that generates an arpeggio from a held note, if set fast enough this would provide the ratchet effect.

Good idea too, thanks

wim

The nice thing about Effectrix is you can throw the effect into the places in the sequence where you want your stutters, and not have to worry at all what the melody is doing.

It’s only a Big Gun if you’re using a lot of FX. If you use just one it’s no different than any other FX except you easy have control over where the FX happens.

But, whatever works for you. 👍😎

Gavinski

Trying Effectrix for that now, it’s working pretty well, thanks, pretty much what I’m looking for

wim

The stutter FX? That’s the one that seemed like it did the best job for me.

Gavinski

The loop one actually applied on 8T setting is giving me a bit closer to what I was looking for so far

_ki

@rs2000 You were right, the wiki‘s Mozaic list hadn‘t been updated in a while. Even though the three scripts you mentioned were already listed, I took this as reminder and added the other missing 8 scripts and i’ll try to keep the wiki list more-up-to-date in the future

.

Regarding the Ratchet topic - if not defined as ‚subdivide a held note into X parts‘ but instead as ‚subdivide into 1/xx th notes‘ one could implement something in Mozaic. If a note is longer than 1/xx th (-1/128 to produce a gap between notes‘, one could send a note-off and a new note on (on the same channel and with same velocity to not confuse mpe voice allocation) if the original note is still sustained on the next 1/xxth beat division. Would be easy to implement, you just need an Active Note Tracker as in my code sample snippet and a running host clock or a timer. And the logic is a bit like in the In-Order-ARP script without the arping

.

But as wim and others already pointed out, there are already several plugins out there working in that way or do similar changes to the audio itself - one would need to find an additional ideas to make it stand out and different to what the existing solutions provide. One also probably doesn‘t want to sub-divide all incomming notes, perhaps only every Nth or maybe just in a specific beat of a bar.

Or perhaps we can imagine other midiFX that could be applied so that the script idea could advance to some kind of midiFX sequencer with stutter, velocity-mods, probabilities etc ? In my opionion that would be a nice and interesting topic to work on - and yes i know putting this into an end-user friendly GUI layout using the fixed capabilities of Mozaic is the biggest challenge but still do-able with tons of if-cases... and if

Krupa

That’s what I started thinking about over this morning @_ki , each midinote going through an if tree, with settings for probabilities of different effects being applied would be interesting - is there a way of determining which beat we’re currently in as well? - that might allow some control of whether down beats are affected more than others or vice versa... hmm, you can tell I’ve got assignments that I’m not enjoying by the fact that random things are distracting me today 😆

Synthi

@_ki said:
Or perhaps we can imagine other midiFX that could be applied so that the script idea could advance to some kind of midiFX sequencer with stutter, velocity-mods, probabilities etc ? In my opionion that would be a nice and interesting topic to work on - and yes i know putting this into an end-user friendly GUI layout using the fixed capabilities of Mozaic is the biggest challenge but still do-able with tons of if-cases... and if

That’s something I was thinking of.... a sequencer not for MIDI notes but midi effects, advancing each step with key presses, and with stutter, random, velocities, divisions, additional notes, etc Programable for each step. Would be great!

rs2000

@Synthi said:

@_ki said:
Or perhaps we can imagine other midiFX that could be applied so that the script idea could advance to some kind of midiFX sequencer with stutter, velocity-mods, probabilities etc ? In my opionion that would be a nice and interesting topic to work on - and yes i know putting this into an end-user friendly GUI layout using the fixed capabilities of Mozaic is the biggest challenge but still do-able with tons of if-cases... and if

That’s something I was thinking of.... a sequencer not for MIDI notes but midi effects, advancing each step with key presses, and with stutter, random, velocities, divisions, additional notes, etc Programable for each step. Would be great!

Drambo is perfect for such stuff.
No coding knowledge required.
Edit: Rather than advancing steps by key presses, I would map different MIDI effects to different keys or controller pads so you always have the choice 😊

Synthi

@rs2000 said:
Drambo is perfect for such stuff.
No coding knowledge required.
Edit: Rather than advancing steps by key presses, I would map different MIDI effects to different keys or controller pads so you always have the choice 😊

NIce! I alwais forget Drambo for MIDI... is there some kind of example about the MIDI possibilities in Drambo?

auxmux

StepBud has racheting per step too.

rs2000

@Synthi said:

@rs2000 said:
Drambo is perfect for such stuff.
No coding knowledge required.
Edit: Rather than advancing steps by key presses, I would map different MIDI effects to different keys or controller pads so you always have the choice 😊

NIce! I alwais forget Drambo for MIDI... is there some kind of example about the MIDI possibilities in Drambo?

What do you need?

Gavinski

Yes, but will quantise the note length values of whatever melody you pipe into it @auxmux. I'm looking to preserve that but just add a ratchet feel on some notes from time to time

auxmux

Hmm, interesting, I think so, but it could be repeats like Metropolis as @wim said.