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GeoSwam model parameters
I think it would be a good idea to discuss here about the different available parameters of each GeoSwam instrument, as this subject hasn’t been thoroughly reviewed until now. I am referring to the model parameters that simulate the instrument behavior and provide the feeling of playing the real instrument.
Also it may help people decide which GeoSwam instrument they would like to play, according to certain criteria on playing capabilities.
So, first : to read about the different parameters of GeoSwam instruments, the best is to consult the GeoShred documentation. For that, the easiest way is to select the menu “Model & FX” then select your instrument, then click on the “?” to display the contextual help :
You can also access the full list of parameters by clicking “Expert” in the window opened in the situation above :
Now, what I can tell about the GeoSax I own : you mainly have 2 parameters, Growl and Flutter, besides the vibrato.
The Growl particularly is your direct ticket to fun, similar to the “sexy” button of Sensual Sax app 😉
But there is also a parameter called “key noise” that should allow to activate and/or modulate the mechanical sound of the keys when they are triggered. Unfortunately, I didn’t notice any difference when changing the value of this parameter. Maybe it’s present but permanently deactivated, maybe it was in preparation then eventually was not implemented in GeoSwam, maybe it’s for a future release (?). I don’t know...
Also, the documentation mentions a parameter called “overblow threshold”. The overblow occurs when the expression value reaches a certain value (threshold) and under certain circumstances, producing a “squeaky” sound with high overtones. This is when you blow too strong in your instrument... This parameter is documented as being available for all wind instruments but it is not listed in the parameters list.
Maybe it would be nice if @moForte could comment on “key noise” and “overblow” parameters whose availability is not very clear to me.
Thanks !
Comments
Wondering how it would sound to layer sensual sax with geosax. Have you tried it?
You can't see it in the graphic but the last item in the list is "Vibrato Rate". I found the GeoViolin default to be too fast for my taste and lowered it with that Parameter.
It also worth repeating that any incoming MIDI using channels 2 or higher will be treated
as valid MPE MIDI.
The Polythemus App can break chords into multiple MIDI channels and with AUv3
instances you can get 2-4 note chords with these SWAM instruments in a DAW.
3 AUv3's is safe but 4 pushes close to the line for me and 5 won't work.
As a 2 handed keyboard player I tried GeoCellos on channels 2+3 and GeoViolins on channels 3+4 and was able to get a string ensemble sound with a few missed notes. Block chords work best.
This would also work well for Fugue Machine or multiple Riffers or any multi-channel MIDI generator app. When I use those apps I can only get 3 channels reliably.
I’d love seeing a video using Velocity Keyboard app ,using the radius gesture and check how it performs
@McD can you give one of your detailed instruction sets on how to set up the upper and lower split? I can assign upper and lower parts to the midi channels on my keyboard... but how does one get it into a DAW? Are the settings in GeoShred?
When I bought Sensual Sax back in the day I was amazed how good it sounded and how expressive it could be . To me it sounded like the real thing. Now when I compare it with GeoSax I wonder what the heck I was thinking. I feel that throwing it in with with GeoSax would only serve to diminish the beauty of this gift we’ve been given. Haven’t tried it though.
I can assign upper and lower parts to the midi channels on my keyboard... but how does one get it into a DAW?
The keyboard split will assign channels to each note range. Set your DAW MIDI inputs per instrument to match the bass and treble channels accordingly. So, isolating a single bass part should be easy for the Monophonic SWAM GeoShred targets like the GeoCello. Just set
that instrument to match the lower split range... channel 2 would be ideal.
To keep life simple I'd route the treble to a polyphonic instrument like the Korg Module
presets. Because I suspect you want some chords over your bass.
Doing Chords with SWAM instruments requires a MIDI FX app like Polythemus to break the chord notes into multiple MIDI channels. It has several algorithms to choose from "First available", "round robin", etc.
GeoShred supports MPE input (channels 2-15). It will play every note coming on on those channels. It will ignore anything on channel 1.
Polythemus has a "keep the lowest" algorithm which could force the bass notes to Channel 1 and sent 2 and above (for as many channels as you set in the app) to 2-top channel.
@McD, can I set the lower keyboard to one instance of SWAM and the upper to another instance of SWAM?
Try lower keyboard split on channel 2 and set the DAW GeoShred first instance to 2 also.
Try upper keyboard split on channel 3 and set the DAW GeoShred second instance to 3 also.
Using 2 and 3 is arbitrary. Anything 2 or above will work up to channel 15 max.
The default MIDI inputs in Cubasis are set to "Any". So both GeoShreds would respond to both lower and upper splits if they are set to channels 2 or above. If they are set to 1 they would be ignored following MPE specs.
So I read the woodwinds manual available on the Swam site.
As expected, there are a lot of other parameters available, not included in GeoSwam :
Particularly, there is a Breath noise parameter that would have been very interesting for GeoSax. I would have gladly exchanged the Flutter (more suited to GeoFlute) for the Breath to be able to produce sounds à la Stan Getz.
I wonder if the upcoming standalones will have more of those parameters.
Upcoming stand alone have most of the same parameters as desktop. There are only a small handful of things that won’t be a part of it. Certainly all of the important parameters are there. There are some detuning (making the instrument sound old and slightly out of tune) things that you can do on Mac that won’t be on iOS. There is also some kind of random feature (randomizing vibrato rate for example) that I recall they said would be left out on iOS as well.
These sounds are extremely configurable, to the point where you can make it sound like a 4th grader playing for the first time if that’s what you want; however, the main parameters people will be looking for are supposed to be on the iOS app.
Yes, they invested a lot in their cross platform infrastructure in this purpose.
So great !
However, I think the price tag will not be the same as GeoSwam...
If I had to guess, I would say maybe 50$ per instrument or maybe more for a whole set of instruments (flutes, clarinets, brass).
Why do you think that @Paulo164? $50 per instrument (even pianos) is pretty out there for iOS.
Wow, the price is totally silly, considering that they terrible preset already. It should be a fix to the bad tones in this app to start with(yikes)!
I have no clue, really. Just my guessing...
I think Audio Modeling has high expectations for their iOS instruments, with a level of quality almost equivalent (if not equal) to the desktop ones. They will not give them away...
I hope they will not set the price higher than 50$ though.
Because of their desktop pricing. The SWAM Brass (with 15 horns) sells for $600... $40 per horn.
The StaffPad Libraries sell for $500-750 on the desktop and $99 in the StaffPad IOS instance.
So, $50 seems like stretch. I'm expecting either higher price for a bundle or breaking the
"Brass" into "Trumpets", "Trombones" and "Horns" in the $50 range.
Someone will do a demo that makes you covet the capability and find a way to participate too.
@oceansinspace, I’m really on the fence with this. I have to agree with you that most of the presets are not very interesting. I have only used the “dry” versions and the arp preset once. It seems I got some realism on my Track The Gypsy and @Intrepolicious has done well with the sax. But you can edit and modify the sound on GeoShred, no?. Ravneeth Sundar has created several presets. His Sarangi is great. Maybe @Spidericemidas, @shinyisshiny or @RedSkyLullaby can give it a shot.
I do wish with geoshred in general that reverb and delay weren't slapped liberally on absolutely everything. In patches that don't have it baked in to the control panel, it can be time consuming to turn off.
As for swam presets, I quite like the drone ones and the scale ones are useful in that scale settings are there in the control panel.
By the way, has anyone noticed that there are sometimes problems with state saving in aum. I asked this inn another thread but got not response. To check: load 3 GeoShreds in aum. Put them to, let's say, 1 a cello, 2 a violin, 3 an Oboe. Close the session and reopen. Is it the same or are they something totally different like shred guitar?
@gavinski, yes the scales are useful. But not available on every patch.
The scales are available in the control panel on the 'scales' patches. One thing some people might not get about geoshred is that the presets are not necessarily about tweaking sounds. Sometimes they are just about having quick access to different parameters in the control panel. All of this is editable, you can edit the control panel in any patch and save it as a new preset. Same with the various expression parameters. Because menu diving in geoshred can be fiddly and time consuming, it is definitely worth setting up your own presets exactly the way you like them if you have certain setups you use regularly.
C'mon, it's only the price of 5 cups of coffee per IAP 🤣
And Syntronic isn’t Synthmaster One. If you’re after a user configurable physical modelling engine, you definitely need to look elsewhere.
Just picking up on three things that @Gavinski has mentioned.
I agree that State in AUM doesn’t appear to be consistent. For me it sometimes changes all instances to the one I last set up and other times defaults all instances to one of my presets. At the moment I can’t see a pattern but will keep trying.
Also agree that setting up your own presets is the way to go. I add Root and Scale to all my presets in addition to changing to Standard Guitar layout.
Finally... also agree re cups of coffee. I use this as a standard measure of expenditure but normally add a cake in. So if I am hesitating about the cost of something I just think, coffee and cake for two about covers it and just buy it!
Cheers
For putting up with the hype of geoshred and its shortcomings I would have expected some new tones for free. I am sure they sound sweet but I feel geoshred is more flawed than ifretless for example. It never saves any of my global parameters and all I want is a 8 string guitar with the same tuning with every preset, Ive done so many times its almost funny.
@oceansinspace have you told @moForte about this issue with parameters? They're pretty good at taking bug reports seriously in my experience.
KeyNoise is a statistical noise representing the sound from the keys. The parameter is on/off. It's very subtle and can be heard when playing many notes together.
They are parameters "Overblow Enable" and "Overblow". Overblow Enable turns off/on overblowing. Overblow changes the threshold velocity where the overblow engages. For an iPad, velocity is on KeyY position, so it changed the KeyY position of the tap. Video here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/usovk7infbat48t/Overblow.MOV?dl=0
The GeoSWAM models have a subset of the SWAM parameters, and they don't use the same MIDI mapping. Also the semantics of some of the parameters are handled differently. For example GeoTenorSax has a "Growl Enable" which works better with the GeoShred Control Surface semantics.