Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
What is Loopy Pro? — Loopy Pro is a powerful, flexible, and intuitive live looper, sampler, clip launcher and DAW for iPhone and iPad. At its core, it allows you to record and layer sounds in real-time to create complex musical arrangements. But it doesn’t stop there—Loopy Pro offers advanced tools to customize your workflow, build dynamic performance setups, and create a seamless connection between instruments, effects, and external gear.
Use it for live looping, sequencing, arranging, mixing, and much more. Whether you're a live performer, a producer, or just experimenting with sound, Loopy Pro helps you take control of your creative process.
Download on the App StoreLoopy Pro is your all-in-one musical toolkit. Try it for free today.
Comments
What about build quality, reliability, resale value etc.?
Don’t these things matter to behr users?
Maybe just low standards because they don’t know any better?
Ignorance is bliss.
There IS a reply button, at the top right of the comments, but it didn’t work on my iPad. Perhaps I need to be signed in. What I would have said is that legal isn’t the same as ethical.
I’ll still buy a poly aftertouch midi controller keyboard if they bring one out though...
I think it’s more about how Behringer have been pretty lazy and careless in their rip-off. That’s what could be disrespectful. Make the buttons rounded, move them around a bit... voila. It’s the “I’m not even gonna bother and cover it up” attitude that makes them look like bullies.
Personally I’m quite fond of Behringer. At least they make products that are affordable. On a “empire of evil” list they’re well behind Apple, Amazon, Thomann, almost every Chinese pedal manufacturer...
BTW who’s Uli?. Is he the owner?. If you refer to him by his nickname he must not that bad after all...
True. Most cannot distance themselves enough to see the bigger picture.
I checked in like 3 different browsers and it doesn't do anything. The comments are so fawning that they have got to be fake, no one writes like that
But in any case, replying to the charge of being shameless ripoff with "but TECHNICALLY it's not a crime" is not exactly setting high standards for good behaviour. Many things are not crimes, yet should still not be done.
They didn’t mention having licensed the design in their response...
Yeah, this theory was already debunked by Arturia and the designer that worked with Arturia on the Keystep.
Via @Clam earlier in this thread: https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2020/11/23/arturia-responds-to-behringers-keystep-knockoff-seriously/
No they did not.
What I don’t understand about this thing is why copy it so closely? It’s not like the Arutia key step is a 40 year old classic with nostalgia value. It’s ‘just’ a MIDI keyboard with a rudimentary sequencer.
Behringer could have easily made the same keyboard but made it look different.
They chose to make the size, button layouts and functions almost identical. That’s not by accident.
It’s not even cheaper than the Arturia is selling for.
It’s not just that it’s a blatant rip off, but that it’s a copy of a product that’s not exactly ground breaking. I’m not disparaging the key step, but it’s no Minimoog. It’s very nicely designed I think, but A design icon? Not really.
They could have made a much more powerful machine without slavishly copying somebody else. There isn’t an iPhone of the keyboard controller world. They all look pretty similar anyway.
So yeah. Totally unnecessary.
Behringer definitely would be a worthy participant in the Plagarius award competition. Arturia should send in the nomination.
https://www.plagiarius.com/
It’s very nicely designed I think, but A design icon? Not really.
A few people state similar to those above.
Its a good device and its a sub £100 keyboard controller.
Its "the best in its class" in many peoples view.
Compact, rugged, good connectivity and a scratch pad sequencer.
For "getting your brand out there" behringer do Entry level soundcards and Swing puts them in the entry level Keyboard market.. by "entry level" i mean "budget" and also attractive to newcomers to the market who just "dip their toes" financially. These people have no brand affiliation anyhow.
I suspect it’s so they can bundle it with their imminent DAW...
The fact Behringer after all these years don’t seem to have an industrial design aesthetic is disappointing. They boast about how much money they reinvest into manufacturing. Why not invest some of that into design and lead rather than copy?
Korgs look like Korgs. Rolands look like Rolands. Behringers look like Korgs, Rolands, Arturia, Boss anybody but Behringer.
They’re big enough to have their own style.
Caution Long read
Not having an industrial design aesthetic - I'm not sure that's not entirely true or entirely fair. It's not a crime though - it's an aspect of consumerism that's gotten big post WW2, and accelerated to a point of absurdity.
Behringer do a multitude of products across categories and budgets (which are different markets), They do have ranges of products in their own style.
It's a bit unfair using the replica synths to illlustrate your point.
As far as i know, the Boss pedals thing was 15 years ago and they changed the styling, and they settled up with Roland, out of court. Justice done.
The Crave and Neutron.. i'm not aware they're copying anything, The Deepminds take a little inspiration from the Juno's livery - but its starting point was a Juno replica anyhow.
The styling of Roland Boss pedals brand range is a bit more defined than the Arturia Keystep vs the Swing, in my opinion - the dimensions etc and varying colours across the Boss range, there was clear design branding there.
If you go through a tool catalogue, particularly an electricians, you'll see a lot of very similar devices by different manufacturers. It's how things are.
People get a degree of design protection - but once fashions are defined and markets exist, manufacturers are allowed to follow the fashions. You can copy aspects of products. You can facsimile a product if it doesn't meet the criteria to be granted a design copyright. If its not granted a design copyright, you can still try your luck in the courts, or threaten it and settle out of court.
The Swing is not a Facsimile copy, you couldn't "swap the moulds" between the two factories and have no issues. I've seen it described as akin to "black marteteering" too, its nothing like that, it says "Behringer" on it, not "Arturia". It's not millimetre identical, bevels are different etc, yup its a clone, different knobs and buttons too, its not copied its styling, just its layout.
Take a look at 2nd hand prices of some old midi controllers.. maybe 5 years back, some had no second hand value, as they were all cheap silver plastic and looked like space ships control panels. Styling is also part of "inbuilt obscelescance".
Nobody is gonna buy it thinking "Duh, i've been ripped off, i thought it was Arturia". Just like when someone buys a cheaper ipod mp3 player clone, they don't think they're buying an Apple Product. They want a bit of the fashionable style, for a lower price. Some Corporations do imply we're very stupid though, and can't tell the difference, that is an aspect of some of the law too. We're stupid and cant tell the difference with knock offs - I feel the Swing and Arturia are not really in that area, its not the same as pirate goods for sale, fake Nike tees etc.
The Swing is a clear challenge to these ideas and ethics though.
Many people cannot debate this issue without adhominens regarding Behringers past.
Branding, design aesthetics, marketing - they're all linked. Not everyone likes it. Some of it is about making a nice looking product, some of it is a little more sinister, psychological manipulation of individuals and groups/communities and taking advantage of legal protection for a monopoly of trends.
People end up identifying with brands and defending them to the hilt, irrationally.
Take wheel clamps as an example.. if you have a desirable car or caravan.. why on earth do two manufacturers wheel clamps need to look different? Why do we give so much romanticism to audio equipment? They're tools, not a lifestyle.
These issues have been widely covered in writings, such as the famous "No Logo" by Naomi Klein. It does amuse me how many in our community pass themselves off as radical liberals yet fiercely defend styling I.P at the drop of the hat, claiming corporations using international manufacturing, markets and global advertising are "the little guy".
Nowadays, with our online communities, our integration into the "mechanism" is strong. Its new, its changed the world, changed peoples reasoning and identity. It's not a always a good thing. Design aesthetics are a huge part of this mechanism. Some of Our influential community members are bribed with gear too. We get "unboxing ceremony" videos.
Much of design aesthetics is style over function. For synths and instruments.. i want sturdy construction and a good user interface, hopefully not quite looking like the industrial CNC controllers like they once did. Plenty of boutique manufactures have this utilitarian ethic, and some go the other way, like what Behringer also mocked in the Kirn video.
I would sum up, that there is quite a confilct between what people see as legal and ethical - but much of branding and marketing and design aesthetics have a very questionable ethic behind them, quite sinister. They wanna make it look cool, so you feel cool, good about yourself. It's consumerism.
Behringer use additional different methods.. a bit of banter, occasional trolling playing on the pantomime baddy narratives.
Step outside the emotional connections for a moment - it is amusing.
On boasting and investing..
When the CEO proudly talks of his acheivements, like investing in manufacturing, work force conditions etc, it attempts to demonstrate the positive things Behringer has done.
If you don't reinvest in manufacturing, you'll get overtaken, likely beaten on price.
I'm sure some of BHGRs competitors workplace conditions are better and some are worse. As for the Competitors shareholders.. what have they spent your money on? Uli Behringer tells you and shows you the photos. He shows where your money goes.
As we are Apple users, its worth pointing out at the factory where some Apple stuff is made, they invested and improved their workforce conditions by installing suicide nets. I think it's a good point to illustrate that as a community we are being disproportionate in our reaction.
The verbal venom i see used against Behringer is often akin to some political activists talk of the weapons industry or speaking of fascist regimes bulldozing houses whilst the babies are still in them.
Branding and lifestyle has become their politics? well, yes, it's consumerism.
Some of the better work places are simply very fortunate they inherited a legacy, like Moog which is employee owned. I hear they get some boards made in china though. I cant afford £3000 and their cheaper gear is made in China anyhow. I suppose i may take the Behringer option.
IPAD musicians use copied stuff all the time, (i mean, this is the Audiobus forum right? It's an Ipad thing).
I'm not putting words in your mouth here, i know its not a "zero sum game" but i'd sooner see investment in worker conditions than brand identity. I've read about Behringers factory - I know nothing of the other brands.
We see the other extreme with Apple.. the strongest brand design aesthetics in the world, has suicide nets at factories it uses.
I don't doubt there's a happy middle ground though. Is it Behringer? I dunno. I can't see an Anarcho Syndicalist Utopia occuring anytime soon.
But branding via design aesthetics.. maybe Behringer just doesn't believe in it that much. He sees instruments as a tool to get the job done, but appreciates some people like a bit of fashionable style, doesn't reinvent the wheel and copies the fashionable.
It's normal, very common.
I’ve go no interest in a Behringer DAW. So far all their software was obviously designed and written by engineers... and I say that as an engineer that works with software engineers in the aviation industry. UX isn’t even an afterthought.
Although, the Wing is slick, and they’ve been making iterative improvements, so maybe there is a chance.
The Swing though? That’s a real Swing and a miss. Total unapologetic, blatant rip-off with no improvements.
This is the core of your sentiment, your axe to grind, Mr. Fox:
It does amuse me how many in our community pass themselves off as radical liberals yet fiercely defend styling I.P at the drop of the hat, claiming corporations using international manufacturing, markets and global advertising are "the little guy".
Your contortions defending Behringer are rooted in a cultural attack on — well, you're too sophisticated to say "sheeple" — but some imagined collection of benighted consumer. Your whole "commonsense" filibustering feels like warmed-over Jordan Peterson. Apple has literally nothing to do with the wholesale disregard for intellectual property at Behringer. Nothing.
And for the record, Arturia employs 80 people. Behringer has 3,500 workers. Who's the little guy again?
If Arturia can afford the services of an external design consultancy, so can Behringer.
But they chose to use the same design studio that Arturia employed, only Behringer didn’t bother to pay them.
Behringer should ‘copy’ the best German companies that lead the world in design. There are plenty of fantastic German design studios. They could even start their own. They have a huge pool of talent to choose from.
Germany have a cultural design heritage that’s the envy of the entire design world.
Behringer ignore it. Shame.
Behringer doesn't have a wholesale disregard for intellectual property. Intellectual Property is a legal term and not all products warrant legal protection, if the Keystep does, it could be proved in court. If it met legal criteria, it could have been granted a design patent. Does it? If not, why? If it doesnt warrant legal protection, its not I.P. - i cant assert the Keystep vs Behringer Clone is legally ok, but in my opinion, its fine.
Its like a portable cassette player that looks a lot like a walkman, but not enough to infinge I.P
Arturia employs 80 people but outsources its manufacturing, Behringer doesn't. I'm not going to pretend Arturia isnt the smaller entity here though.
I suspect There is far more than 80 people who work for Arturia, they only employ 80 of them. Or does that include the manufacturing plants?
Apple has nothing to do with Behringers "disregardings" but it is another consumer product we use, along with the apps. And people do disregard Apples crimes. It seems one sided and nonsensical.
Only looking at Behringer without looking at other corporations we buy products off is an abstraction, no perspective.
Klownshed yes they could, maybe they obviously do employ some designers or outsourcing. Somebody does their designing, its not a facsimile copy. They just dont go down the arty aethetics defining route - they copy the fashion.
Well, there’s 45 mins I’m never getting back.
But, I did learn a lot about these companies and many of you!
Happy Thanksgiving!
The SWING is an almost 100% facsimile of the Arturia. Trying to argue that it isn’t is disingenuous. They’ve not made a generic midi keyboard, they’ve copied every function, control and button and only changed the most minor of labels or details. If the swing had an Arturia logo it would look like a Black Keystep.
Everything gets copied. Most phones look the same. Most cars are much of a muchness.
But the line is drawn at direct copies for a good reason. Many if not most consumers looking at the Swing and Key Step side by side would make take the inference that they are identical inside as well as outside.
Big companies fiercely protect their designs for this reason.
Behringer know exactly what they are doing.
Arturia are not mad when AKAI release a midi keyboard. Or novation. Or korg. Even if the features are the same. Arturia don’t own the right to make midi keyboards with a simple built in sequencer. But they should own the actual visual design of their products.
There’s a difference between the natural converging of design and just switching on the photocopier.
I don't disagree with much of what you said there, but my interpretation of the law for industrial design copyright.. (in context of Swing Vs Keystep) is that the Swing is quite generic looking, nothing particularly orginal about how it looks or to associate it with a brand (for illustration compare to the multicolored boss pedal range - which along with the close styling, was enough to be I.P, so Roland won).
The Coca Cola bottle got a design patent for its profile. Theres many notable designs protected, some are bunk too.. many of us laugh at Apples design patent for rounded corner rectangle as an example - its likely no one is rich enough to successfully challenge that though.
Compare the Keystep to a few other minikey controllers - i dont think its fits most countries criterea for a unique design.
Yes you are right - its almost a 100 % facsimile of the Arturia, but what percent of that coincides with the Samson Graphite M32 ? Quite a bit, most of that 100 % seems generic or derivative to me.
As so much of it is derivative (generic), i honestly dont think the law would afford it i.p protection.
It has approximate casing dimensions and the positions of knobs and buttons are the same. The knobs and buttons stylings are different.
but i also disagree here "Many if not most consumers looking at the Swing and Key Step side by side would make take the inference that they are identical inside as well as outside."
Im not sure we would, i did adress that point amongst my waffling, that point is implying we're stupid on their part. Theres no mistaking of what brand I'm buying either. Its a valid point in some market instances, but not this one, not largely.
The fact that a midi keyboard is fairly generic is part of my point.
There is no arguing that the swing looks like the Keystep. It’s almost identical.
Why did behringer do that? They have a reason. It could have been just another generic looking keyboard but they made it look just like a competitors generic looking keyboard. If they don’t want you to think it’s the same they wouldn’t have done it would they? They are surely wanting people to associate their keyboard with Arturias. If they didn’t why would they copy it so closely?
But that’s just my take. There is definitely a reason behind why B have done what they’ve done. They may not have high morals but they’re not stupid.
I will leave the legalities to lawyers. Behringer know more about the laws surrounding this than most, having defended themselves (usually successfully) many times over similar complaints.
Behringer make a lot of products. A lot of them are quite desirable. Their business practices and the way they conduct themselves in public sometimes leaves a bad taste.
And it’s just so unnecessary.
Behringer seem to revel in the notoriety.
Anyway. As I said earlier, everybody is free to like or dislike Behringer and their products and I’m not going to judge anybody for either boycotting or purchasing their products.
Behringer know what they’re doing. Some people like it some don’t. I think they’ve crossed the line on this product but I’m not going to stop using my Pro-1. I wouldn’t be disappointed if father Xmas left a Behringer MS20 clone under my tree either. I’d be even happier with a real one though :-)
I am genuinely curious as to why Behringer did this though. It just seems like a strange decision and somewhat confrontational.
It’s just a keyboard though. The only people that really have the right to be furious about it are the folks at Arturia ;-)
These phone comparisons in regard to this discussion don’t make sense to me. At all. A phone has a flat screen and no sliders, knobs, keys. It’s just a plane of glass. Once you turn those phones on, the similarities are gone. I hate android phones and can’t use them at all because I think the entire experience is a nightmare. My iPhone...completely different workflow and ideology. It clicks with me.
Conversely, The Swing is copying every single aspect of the Keystep. Down to the knob and button placement. Like the exact same.
Completely different paradigm and, IMHO, not a comparison at all to this phone comparison that keeps coming up.
Yes, that aspect of this sort of thing would typically be covered by "Passing off" law, and maybe also "brand defamation" in legal cases.
The passing off thing.. making out like your goods are someone elses maybe wont quite cut the mustard in this instance due do brand logos on it, but yes, Behringer is certainly riding on the keysteps steam or reputation, but they can say its the functionality.
I know about a few of these law aspects as ive sold tshirts for ten years, a friend got stung for 5k for parodying a brand.. settled out of court. I've had cease and desists from some big names, my favourite is the The Met Police (London)
Artwork is different to industrial design though.. being inspired by some works can be enough in some instances for a dispute, a derivative work is a derivative work kinda thing, but it has to be proved (no prior art). Just the concept can be enough to own.
People conflate arts protection with industrial design - theyre right to a degree ethically. but in practice youd just get monopolies so the law is different.
Youre right about who should be angry. Arturia. Instead we get hysteria.
I do get hacked off by some, not all Behringer bashers, its a thing.. perceptions greatly affected by this recentish occurence.. a bunch of people deliberately missrepresented what a cease and desist letter was about (a site was Calling behringer Useless dogs and maybe implying Uli gives the workforce Leukimia, and more slurs) detractors republished it at first, then later minimised it (Claiming Uli is suing just for being called a copycat), they hung historical cases to it, making a very toxic narrative ultimately ending up with Uli being publicly branded a racist by some when Behringer took the piss (it backfired cos a bunch of axe grinders launched a dissinformation campaign claiming Behringer is mocking jews).
No one got sued, A publicly distributed mocking cartoon rather than ruining someones life via bankrupting legal action seemed perfectly reasonable to me, i'd say thanks for going lightly.
Behringer were not in the wrong on that cease and desist issue and they werent corporate bullies. People picked a personal shit slinging fight with Uli Behringer, it got out of hand.
Some People are still slurring claiming Uli is an antisemitic racist on social media.
People appropriating minority group struggles cos they have an axe to grind isnt on, in my code of ethics, It's a far more important issue than synthesizers.
I think a lot of peoples "take" on the outcome this Swing is wrong, I dont think it will affect Arturias takings.
I think Swing wont fetch the $99 dollar price Uli suggests in most places - why would you pay the same for a clone? People do read stuff online, most store staff would tell you straight which products are clones (stores/distributors could be done for passing off or brand defamation here if they lie ).
I think The Swing will be a budget entry level device, people who can afford the Arturia comfortably mostly still will, and Behringer will be kicking some cheap crap bottom feeding competitors out of the market, along with bringing more newcomers to the market, perhaps buying a behringer starter pack, like Focusrights stuff.. mic, audio interface, swing, headphones, some will later upgrade, maybe buy an Arturia Keystep Pro mkiii. Just like how guitarists move from the clone to the branded original.
Its a very good thing in my opinion. Particularly raising the standard at the budget end of the market, that has a knock upwards effect.
Sony and Apples portable music devices being cloned shows what happens to people who are cloned - it boosts their kudos, they become known as the market leaders. Arturias credability just went sky high essentially.
The keystep is now the defacto benchmark Minikey controller, culturally.
Ive got a Beatstep Pro and a Microfreak - which is one of my fave synths ever, its delightful. I may get a Minibrute 2s, ive just ordered a Behringer Flow 8, im often tempted by a few of the Bhr clones, the Cat particularly, or an Odyssey. I bought a BCR2000 20 years ago or more, it was the most innovative thing for years either direction, and still works. It looked a bit like a Mackie 😂
If Behringer wasnt so competitive at the lower price part of the market, the markets quality would only be worse,
.
Speaking of terrible, unethical music manufacturing firms, Gibson is one of the worst.
Has it occurred to ya all that Behringer has anticipated all this prattle before they released this. Why. Are. You. Even. Bothering. To. Talk. About. This.
what I can't understand is why people care...
gear emulation, second-hand knock offs, copies clones, yadayadayada. These aren't artistic expressions, they're products and tools. Copying and cloning and making just legal enough replicas of products is the foundation of the music business. If it was common, there'd only be one brand of each instrument, based on which every company made them first.
The Swing is unoriginal, but who cares? did you ever consider buying it? how many of you complaining even own the Keystep? Remember when phones all had buttons, and then apple released the iPhone, and then everyone went touchscreen and we ended up with a long drawn out legal battle over buttons and the validity of IP with swipe design. Now you can barely tell if apples copying an android design or vice versa, and ultimately, who cares beyond the companies and their investors and tribe of fans? If you want an apple phone, you'd buy an apple phone. If you wanted a similar device, but not apple, you'd be android.
So, if you don't like Arturia, congrats! there's ANOTHER alternative. They look almost exactly alike, but so do most pianos. I still know when I want a Steinway or not. Non of this bickering over design and copyrights and IP benefits us on the user end. Arturia is not gonna go out of business because the Swing came to market. They'll keep pushing out vintage synth emulations and dropping gear to keep people in their ecosystem.
just move on. You'll probably forget the thing exists in a year. I bet by the time there's a next-gen swing it won't even look the same.
and one last point...they didn't create the unique design of the keystep for artistic expression. They created it with the idea that it would be an iconic look that would stand as marketing. So that when you saw a keystep you know exactly what brand it is, and hopefully would want it. If they didn't have the incentive to try and hook people with their aesthetics, they wouldn't waste money on it.
I wonder if behr lovers also use knock-off iPads for audio production.
Do they send their behr produced tracks to mastering engineers who only use behr knock-offs of iconic mastering equipment?
I’ve still not really forgiven them for killing off Opcode!
If there was an Ipad pro Hardware Clone that ran IOS for 70% of the price.. i think it would be a big seller.
We could compare it to the nature of "IBM compatible".
We cant have cheaper knock off Ipads due to I.P. laws and Apple monpoly. In the past, many tech items get opened to competition via licensing.. VHS, Betamax, DVD, the MSX computer was a great example.
Apple could benefit.. more apps sold, they take 30% cut after all. (would it kill Android devices?)
A big difference with the Keystep is they dont own the tech, they cant license it.
If you look across the 'Step Range (as Arturia describe it) the design aesthetics for branding are not consistent. Which is why Behringer can copy the derivative generic looking Keystep without infinging upon the brands image ip. Had Arturia used a design meeting legal criteria required for protection, they wouldnt be in this position.
I'd describe the Keysteps design aesthetics as "banal".
Which to be fair.. Behringer copying a banal design does speak volumes about how we've been hoodwinked. I described earlier how branding and marketing can define what is stylish, its true..
We have loads people defending a banal design. I feel Theres some sort of "emporers new clothes" vibe going on tbh.
I think most musicians don't use Mastering Engineers at all, but i'd pick one based on talent, I wouldnt care if they used a P2 333.