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A new idea for a Sequencer?
Below is a draft image for an idea for a Sequencer where rhythm is entered separately from notes.
The blue boxes are "rhythm markers" entered on a "single line" piano roll type transport.
How it works:
Start with a blank pattern. Set the length in bars.
Turn on record with metronome.
Use either the Tap Pad, or a any keyboard key to enter a rhythm onto the time line.
Once a rhythm is entered.. Tap on the first "rhythm marker" on the blue time line to highlight it.
Play a note on a keyboard.
The played note is entered into the first "rhythm marker", and the note is displayed in the red box above the timeline.
Note entry could be done by step record style. Or by selecting any "rhythm marker" then entering a note.
The entire timeline would scroll by swiping.
WHY ???
Because traditional step sequencers only do same note length rhythms, or the process of adjusting the note length is time consuming and not intuitive IMO.
With a concept like this, you could "bang out" a complex bass rhythm (think Led Zeppelin).
Then fill it in with notes like you would a traditional step sequencer.
I'm hoping a developer might be inspired and take up the challenge.
Below is my sloppy picture outlining a rough draft of the premise.
Comments
Great to see others supporting one of my favorite concepts!
By the way, what you describe is how the Drambo sequencer works:
See the infinity sequencer for Mozaic at patchstorage. You can play in notes and then send in notes that trigger the notes in the sequence.
The OP-Z is great for this. You hold down a step, then just press another key further along. The further it is away, the longer the note. It’s super intuitive
Yup, Drambo parameter lock is good for this!
I'll have a look at that.
I've gotta check this out... I'd love to be able to use Drambo for this.
Yep, I've "fighted" for this feature long enough and it would be a bummer if people didn't use it
Do you have a video showing this? 🙂
No but it's the default behavior of the sequencer. It will record how long you tap and hold the pad.
You might want to enable the metronome when recording.
After recording, hit "EDIT" and then, you can tap and hold a step while toggling the notes on that step without changing the note length that you have tapped in before.
To edit the notes as described, the sequencer must be stopped.
This?
Decoupling pitch and timing data is in essence quite modular. This was something I first explored in hardware, when I had both a Minibrute and a Microbrute. I would set them side by side and record a sequence in the Microbrute, but I would patch in the gate signal from the Minibrute. This would mean silence on the Microbrute unless I was playing the keys on the Mini, or had the arpeggiator engaged.
I know you're a Drambonaut, so this is a really fun thing to do with several tracks:
-Record a mono or poly sequence on Track 2.
-Set up an empty Track 1, except for a midi to cv module.
-Route track 1's gate signal to the gate input of the track 2 instrument.
-Now you can experiment creating new rhythms (on track 1), while preserving the original harmonic timing (on track 2).
You can even place an N-1 switch before the instrument, and route it to the instrument's gate. Now you could take several track's gate outputs into the N-1, or even use gate sequencers. The switch will let you immediately switch between several rhythmic variations on the fly (or automate it with a sequencer, p-locks, etc).
I demonstrate this about 3 minutes into this video.
Here's a musical demo of the results/process
Rhythmbud lets you record of program a rhythm and then applies that rhythm to whatever you play. Kind of like an arpeggiator but for rhythmic patterns.
Or you could put a different sequencer in front of rhythmbud instead of playing keys live.
Not exactly the same but a fun way to achieve something similar.
I think Cykle might actually do what you’re after, with pitch and gate detached from each other, but haven’t got round to trying it yet.
It works pretty good.
Here's a video.
The baseline started as a randomly tapped in kick drum rhythm. Then I edited in bass notes over the Kick rhythm, per your instructions.
I think this is a good technique for composing complex parts. But it does make you think about how the notes will fit the rhythm. So I think (for me anyway) I'll need to pre-think what the part will sound like before I start to work on it.
EvolverFX can play some nice games with this as the notes and timing (and samples per note) are all on independent lanes which can be different lengths, so you can either synchronise them or have them run independently. A very powerful concept, as also used in the Korg Wavestate.
Hm. You can think about it in advance but you don't have to. Even if you have no melody in mind at all, you can tap a rhythm anyway and go back to the sequence when the bird tweets.
Or you place the notes manually on the sequencer steps, by tap-dragging you can enter any note length too and come back to it with a melody or chords later.
The future will bring a sequencer module to Drambo that allows for more advanced routing, and when that happens, I'll certainly build a patch that will let you tap a rhythm on a table that Drambo will record via microphone and record your taps as sequencer hit points.
Yes, put me down for one.
I would also like it if you could select the notes and the order they occur in first - then tap them out rhythmically.
The context reminds me on a smart function of some Casio keyboards:
you can record a melody or sequence of notes which it would playback exactly as entered when the Auto-Play button was pressed.
With a pair of buttons called One-Note Play it would do the playback step by step when switching between those 2 buttons, at the momentary manual timing, even doing a sustain part properly.
As simple as it is, as versatile are the results...
ps: just checked to refresh my memory... as usual Casio left out a couple of things one would consider obvious: you can‘t playback faster than recorded and the alternating presses aren‘t needed. Hammering one button will advance the steps, too. Real smart would have been repeating the current step while tapping the same button and advance if the other button is pressed.
I've built that 4 months ago:
https://patchstorage.com/step-sequencer-with-manual-forward-and-reverse-buttons/
The 16 step sequencer module now has an adjustable grid so note entry can be made even easier now.
Edit: When I find the time, I might make this send MIDI notes too and fix a few issues.
I think you can already do that live using 2 tracks. By routing the gate signal from track 1 to the gate input of a 2nd track. This allows you to record and play the rhythm in real-time. To do it all on one track, a midi filter could be used on the lowest note, an the gate from that note to generate the rhythm. It’s easier to visualize though with 2 tracks for now. I put a little demo up earlier in the thread for @horsetrainer
I was messing around with StepBud and RhythmBud, and it's looks like these two Apps would be ideal for this purpose if StepBud was updated to use "Any midi note input" as the trigger to advance through the note steps.
Maybe a setting labeled "Transport" with two options: "HOST" and "MIDI NOTE IN".
RhythmBud already has a mode called "Tap Out Rhythm to Record".
A new mode in RhythmBud called "Control" could cause RhythmBud to send Midi out on a single note with no external note input required.
StepBud could then use the timing from RhythmBud's midi note output, to step through it's recorded notes according to RhythmBud's timing.
There would still be a overall host timing sync, because RhythmBud would continue to operate in sync with host timing.
I'm really surprised that most traditional step sequencers don't already have a feature like a mode switch to enable step advance, from either the Host clock, or a MIDI Note input.
Rozeta Cells is another step sequencer that could have a whole new dimension of use if only it could advance through it's steps based on Midi Note input.
This is my personal opinion.... Even though I do like much of the "mechanical sounding" "fixed rhythm" music that many use iOS Apps to produce.
I think iOS music is profoundly effected by the law of "Maslow's hammer", AKA "The law of the Instrument" Which says.... If the only tool one has is a hammer, they tend to treat everything as if it were a nail.
Give everyone a sequencer that's primarily designed to output steady unvarying rhythms, and the music they make will most likely be a construction of made out of steady unvarying rhythms.
I propose that if the developers provide people with tools to creating variable rhythms and melodies using intuitive and easy methods, that the types of music iOS musicians make, would evolve because of those tools.
@hypnopad requested what he called a "Round Robin" MIDI processor that in the end turned out to be
a need for a "note input" method to advance a sequence of notes. @wim wrote him a Mozaic Script called "Round-Robiner' and @rs2000 (I think) suggested a way to use Drambo. The historic thread conversation leading to defining to need and the script to solve it is here:
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/38132/any-ios-apps-that-do-midi-round-robin#latest
@Hypnopad needed this capability to map drum taps to sequences of notes. It's pretty say to code that
ask in Moziac. What's missing is the ability to "record" the rhythms and if RhythmBud can do that then it can be the "automated" Hypnopad drummer feeding the input to @wim's script. @wim coded a way to
set up a 16 step sequence as I recall.
I hacked up a version of the idea and it was a lot of fun using Kat Pads to generate live rhythmic jams.
Like you, I hope a developer is fishing around for new app ideas and decides to code us a creative solution
that gets us past the 16 step sequence or the piano roll editor. We need:
and then creative ways to merge the 2 into a rhythmic-melodic MIDI generator with a lot of tracks.
We could do this in Mozaic but data storage is the problem. All you get are 1024 element arrays so it's better to let a developer make us this new tool.
I wonder if I'm getting this straight.
The idea is to have a pitch sequence. Ie, a number of discreet pitches in a specific playback order.
For example: A G E G D F E G C D Bb
Then you could tap in a rhythm for that pitch sequence. So each 'tap' advances the sequence by one pitch value, for the duration of that tap... is this correct?
Indeed, this is similar to @hypnopad method.
I think if you were to enter a note sequence in a step sequencer (in MiRack), then use a separate gate sequencer to advance the sequence (or an external rhythm sequence converted to gate through the 'basic midi input' module) this would work.
Pretty close.
The script is called Hypno Sequence. It's a lot of fun and is sort of like what @horsetrainer is after, but limited to 16 note sequences. Same idea of separating note entry and rhythm.
Rounder Robin is a bit different concept. That one chooses notes from a contiguous chromatic range.
Yep. This works very well. There are some posts on this subject somewhere...
Probably my posts haha. I was working closely with hypnopad at the beginning in mirack before it went to mozaic.
Found it. Guess who the instigator was. (Hint ... it rhymes with coarsebrainer).
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/41171/question-about-how-apps-communicate-to-provide-clock-sync-capability.
Here's the tested miRack solution: https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/854096/#Comment_854096
Ah yeah, similar ideas.
This was before the midi out update.
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/801611/#Comment_801611
I suspect we're trivializing the "ask" in this thread. Developers, please, re-read the original post for additional requirements. I wouldn't expect a developer to reply here if an idea seems worth pursuing.
We can sometimes glue 2-3 apps into a series or in parallel or create a new data workflow and get close to
prototyping what someone just wants to purchase in an app. Suggesting that solution, is never the solution but if it doesn't exist it's just a "Request for Application"... and developers never explicitly honor
them because the "rights" get complicated and never work to the benefit of the developer.
There's a good idea here.
I suspect when the @horsetrainer walks into a room the average IQ goes up. I feel the same way about @wim. The rest of us haven't provided evidence to support that conclusion. Just my opinion.
aha, I just reread initial post. I was going about it backward - its rhythm then melody. Cool idea.
At least you read it. I jumped it before even doing that. 🙄