Something new from FAC Drumkit.

muzka

@mjm1138 said:

@muzka said:
And is anyone triggering fac drumkit with drum computer sequencer?

Thanks

I haven’t used Playbeat so I won’t comment on that. I prefer Polybeat to the DC sequencer just because it supports 16 channels, but I totally get how the DC sequencer would be appealing. In my opinion, FAC Drumkit is different enough sonically from Drum Computer for it to be worth owning both. I personally think it’s easier to get good results from tweaking with FAC Drumkit but again, they’re different. I like them both.

Hi, thanks for the reply.

I'll check out polybeat as it popped up few times when looking in forum posts for drum sequencers. I love drum synths and from watching videos, as you mention, fac seems to get good results quicker so think I'll bite the bullet

Thanks again

Nik

mjm1138

@McD said:

@mjm1138 said:
I just looked at PatchStorage. You can suggest a new "platform" to add and it may get added depending on community votes. They say you should have five or more presets ready to go before submitting the request. So I'm not qualified but if someone else starts a platform there I will gladly contribute.

OK... does the app support easy import/export of presets? Is there a video tutorial for importing sounds and making user presets? I guess leading the parade means you'd have to be a sound designer. I did it for AudioLayer back in the SynthJacker days before AudioLayer added the auto-sampler feature.

I've been playing with this for a few days and the answer is "yes", there's an easy mechanism to export/import presets; it produces a .zip bundle that contains the configs as well as any user samples. I've created a preset which is pretty much just minimally-processed samples from my Volca Beats, and I'm working on a second one which is those same samples punched-up a bit with the oscillators. So I'll have a couple of presets ready to go soon.

McD

This would be a good candidate for patchstorage assuming they are not cautious about sample origination and rights issues. Is that still a thing or is it now accepted that small audio segments are free to embed in new use cases?

jonmoore

@mjm1138 said:

@muzka said:
And is anyone triggering fac drumkit with drum computer sequencer?

Thanks

I haven’t used Playbeat so I won’t comment on that. I prefer Polybeat to the DC sequencer just because it supports 16 channels, but I totally get how the DC sequencer would be appealing. In my opinion, FAC Drumkit is different enough sonically from Drum Computer for it to be worth owning both. I personally think it’s easier to get good results from tweaking with FAC Drumkit but again, they’re different. I like them both.

I'm a big fan of both DrumComputer and Polybeat but when it comes to a partner for FAC Drumkit, I'd agree that Polybeat is the more natural and flexible partner. But the great thing with MIDI-fx is that you can combine them in AUM which is especially great for more generative approaches to rhythmic parts. As long as you keep a clear mental picture as to what each sequencer is bringing to the party, the extra 'complexity' can be worth it.

I just wish that FAC Drumkit allowed a little more freedom with regards to automating a greater range of parameters. And of course, the limitation of 1s samples needs to be lifted too.

Having multi-stage envelopes complicates automation of those envelopes, but I'd love to see a macro system where multiple envelope control points could be grouped and edited as one by macro knobs/sliders (separate knobs/sliders controlling X and Y values). Maybe @FredAntonCorvest already has a few ideas about envelope automation. I know he's already mentioned that the max 1 sec sample length will be lifted to a more reasonable value in a future update.

mjm1138

@McD said:
This would be a good candidate for patchstorage assuming they are not cautious about sample origination and rights issues. Is that still a thing or is it now accepted that small audio segments are free to embed in new use cases?

Interesting question. I noticed that one of the files that gets dropped in the preset zip file is a little text file that says basically “the person who made this can share it as long as they own all the rights to the samples”. I get the impression it’s a sensitive topic. I was certainly careful to only use samples I recorded myself. I can see where patchstorage might just want to avoid the whole sample-rights quagmire.

mjm1138

@jonmoore said:

I just wish that FAC Drumkit allowed a little more freedom with regards to automating a greater range of parameters. And of course, the limitation of 1s samples needs to be lifted too.

Having multi-stage envelopes complicates automation of those envelopes, but I'd love to see a macro system where multiple envelope control points could be grouped and edited as one by macro knobs/sliders (separate knobs/sliders controlling X and Y values). Maybe @FredAntonCorvest already has a few ideas about envelope automation. I know he's already mentioned that the max 1 sec sample length will be lifted to a more reasonable value in a future update.

I hear you, but I kind of also think that level of envelope modulation would be a radical enough change that it would effectively make it a different instrument. Some of my favorite drum machines (FAC, Ruismaker FM, Ting) feel like they have “opinionated” design constraints that give them a distinct sort of musicality. I’d welcome longer samples though

McD

@mjm1138 said:
I can see where patchstorage might just want to avoid the whole sample-rights quagmire.

Sure. The platform needs to separate/disclaim itself from liability associated with "content" that users serve up there. Google for example errs on the side of the big copyright holders for even the smallest uses of recorded music. These small samples were traditional excused from infringement for purposes of critical reviews... but on Google even the smallest snippet of audio can get a video shut down.

Limiting the length of samples imported into FAC Drumkit may help navigate this issue.

I noticed AUM has been requested to be added to PatchStorage but it seems to be stuck. It could be that the host of the site is not interested in adding more projects.

To "heart" (upvote) AUM go here:
https://patchstorage.com/requests/

We'll have to go there to upvote for FAC Drumkit at some point.

jonmoore

@mjm1138 said:

@jonmoore said:

I just wish that FAC Drumkit allowed a little more freedom with regards to automating a greater range of parameters. And of course, the limitation of 1s samples needs to be lifted too.

Having multi-stage envelopes complicates automation of those envelopes, but I'd love to see a macro system where multiple envelope control points could be grouped and edited as one by macro knobs/sliders (separate knobs/sliders controlling X and Y values). Maybe @FredAntonCorvest already has a few ideas about envelope automation. I know he's already mentioned that the max 1 sec sample length will be lifted to a more reasonable value in a future update.

I hear you, but I kind of also think that level of envelope modulation would be a radical enough change that it would effectively make it a different instrument. Some of my favorite drum machines (FAC, Ruismaker FM, Ting) feel like they have “opinionated” design constraints that give them a distinct sort of musicality. I’d welcome longer samples though

Opinioned design constraints are often double talk for 'you get what I give', but I also appreciate designers that work to a definitive design strategy. However, community feedback also leads to very valuable places. Just look at Atom 2 and Loopy Pro for examples of opinionated design that's augmented with features over time without diluting the original design intent. Outside of music, I work as a design strategist so I'm fully versed in the power of design constraints and how they lead to innovation.

Envelope automation is particularly important in percussion synthesis as the three most significant timbral changes that add life to percussive patterns are hit attack/release times and hit tuning. And envelope automation linked to hit velocity is a common approach for automating effectively. Just think of how acoustic drums are snappier as you hit them harder and the shift in tuning you get with fast hard hits over slow low-velocity hits.

FAC Drumkit made an instant impact to my iOS rhythm toolset mainly because of its ability to play samples in place from a wide variety of iOS file system destinations rather than forcing you to import to a local destination first, and I applauded the opinionated design of decoupling sequencing from hit playback. But it also had large holes in its feature-set that @FredAntonCorvest is now in the process of addressing. And I don't believe Fred is at the point where he's taken FAC Drumkit to his long-term vision, he said as much when he announced that he's given up the 'day-job' to dedicate himself to FAC as his main occupation.

crifytosp

MIDI pitch bend is very ‘playable’ on drum synth/samplers

gregsmith

@wim said:

@Jeezs said:
is it possible to layer samples based on velocities or round robin or anything else(oscillator param, filters value to velocities or random changes) to make drum sound feel more natural?
Thanks

No layers, velocities, or round robin. No builtin randomization. Plenty of AU parameters are exposed, so you could use external apps to do some of switching up.

@jonmoore said:

@mjm1138 said:

@jonmoore said:

I just wish that FAC Drumkit allowed a little more freedom with regards to automating a greater range of parameters. And of course, the limitation of 1s samples needs to be lifted too.

Having multi-stage envelopes complicates automation of those envelopes, but I'd love to see a macro system where multiple envelope control points could be grouped and edited as one by macro knobs/sliders (separate knobs/sliders controlling X and Y values). Maybe @FredAntonCorvest already has a few ideas about envelope automation. I know he's already mentioned that the max 1 sec sample length will be lifted to a more reasonable value in a future update.

I hear you, but I kind of also think that level of envelope modulation would be a radical enough change that it would effectively make it a different instrument. Some of my favorite drum machines (FAC, Ruismaker FM, Ting) feel like they have “opinionated” design constraints that give them a distinct sort of musicality. I’d welcome longer samples though

Opinioned design constraints are often double talk for 'you get what I give', but I also appreciate designers that work to a definitive design strategy. However, community feedback also leads to very valuable places. Just look at Atom 2 and Loopy Pro for examples of opinionated design that's augmented with features over time without diluting the original design intent. Outside of music, I work as a design strategist so I'm fully versed in the power of design constraints and how they lead to innovation.

Envelope automation is particularly important in percussion synthesis as the three most significant timbral changes that add life to percussive patterns are hit attack/release times and hit tuning. And envelope automation linked to hit velocity is a common approach for automating effectively. Just think of how acoustic drums are snappier as you hit them harder and the shift in tuning you get with fast hard hits over slow low-velocity hits.

FAC Drumkit made an instant impact to my iOS rhythm toolset mainly because of its ability to play samples in place from a wide variety of iOS file system destinations rather than forcing you to import to a local destination first, and I applauded the opinionated design of decoupling sequencing from hit playback. But it also had large holes in its feature-set that @FredAntonCorvest is now in the process of addressing. And I don't believe Fred is at the point where he's taken FAC Drumkit to his long-term vision, he said as much when he announced that he's given up the 'day-job' to dedicate himself to FAC as his main occupation.

I would love to see envelope automation, but trying to code automation of an envelope that a user can add as many points to as they like, sounds like a huge undertaking to me. I’m not sure it’s just ‘opinion’ or ‘design’ but more looking at what’s feasible.

jonmoore

I would love to see envelope automation, but trying to code automation of an envelope that a user can add as many points to > as they like, sounds like a huge undertaking to me. I’m not sure it’s just ‘opinion’ or ‘design’ but more looking at what’s feasible

@gregsmith
There are plenty of examples of automatable multi-stage envelopes, especially in procedural animation (3d animation applications like Maya, Houdini, and Cinema 4d all feature automatable animation curves, which are mathematically speaking identical to a multi-stage envelope). At the end of the day, the control points are governed by simple rules in that they only have an X co-ordinate position and a Y co-ordinate position; and in a sequence of control points (0,1, 2, 3, etc), each subsequent X co-ordinate position can only ever go up in value or be at the same value as the last point (in other words envelopes can’t go back in time).

On that basis, the count of control points is the critical starting point, so you can identify the points for grouping - to create a macro you might want to group control points 4 to 7 under a single macro, as points 1 & 2 control the attack phase, and points 4 to 7 the decay phase. If you want to keep things really simple, you could limit macro values to X co-ordinate positions as automating the decay phase of an amplitude envelope is really common but I don't see the reason to limit things to X co-ordinates.

The main other factor of importance is that the starting positions of the control points can be reset, as once you start automating control points it's all to easy to zero everything out.

If you've ever set up instrument-rack macros in Ableton, Bitwig, or FL Studio you'll have a sense of how valuable macro knobs are for automation. Automating multi-stage envelopes without macro knobs will simply be too complex to easily manage.

But I agree, the important question for @FredAntonCorvest is what he see's as feasible. If macros are considered too complex to implement, an alternative approach might be to offer both multi-stage envelopes and traditional ADSHR's. The multi-stage option, non-automatable, and the ADSHR's automatable.

gregsmith

@jonmoore said:

I would love to see envelope automation, but trying to code automation of an envelope that a user can add as many points to > as they like, sounds like a huge undertaking to me. I’m not sure it’s just ‘opinion’ or ‘design’ but more looking at what’s feasible

@gregsmith
There are plenty of examples of automatable multi-stage envelopes, especially in procedural animation (3d animation applications like Maya, Houdini, and Cinema 4d all feature automatable animation curves, which are mathematically speaking identical to a multi-stage envelope). At the end of the day, the control points are governed by simple rules in that they only have an X co-ordinate position and a Y co-ordinate position; and in a sequence of control points (0,1, 2, 3, etc), each subsequent X co-ordinate position can only ever go up in value or be at the same value as the last point (in other words envelopes can’t go back in time).

On that basis, the count of control points is the critical starting point, so you can identify the points for grouping - to create a macro you might want to group control points 4 to 7 under a single macro, as points 1 & 2 control the attack phase, and points 4 to 7 the decay phase. If you want to keep things really simple, you could limit macro values to X co-ordinate positions as automating the decay phase of an amplitude envelope is really common but I don't see the reason to limit things to X co-ordinates.

The main other factor of importance is that the starting positions of the control points can be reset, as once you start automating control points it's all to easy to zero everything out.

If you've ever set up instrument-rack macros in Ableton, Bitwig, or FL Studio you'll have a sense of how valuable macro knobs are for automation. Automating multi-stage envelopes without macro knobs will simply be too complex to easily manage.

But I agree, the important question for @FredAntonCorvest is what he see's as feasible. If macros are considered too complex to implement, an alternative approach might be to offer both multi-stage envelopes and traditional ADSHR's. The multi-stage option, non-automatable, and the ADSHR's automatable.

Yeah I’m sure it’s possible, just doesn’t sound like a simple thing to just throw in. Hopefully your notes will help Fred 😂

I would have expected dynamically added exposed parameters would be impossible, but I’ve seen an auv3 do it - can’t remember which one it was now.

god

on the fence here.. 16USD, worth it? Already own EG pulse and hammerhead.

wim

@god said:
on the fence here.. 16USD, worth it? Already own EG pulse and hammerhead.

If you feel you can already do all the sound design and sample playback you want in those then there’s no reason to go for it. If you feel like you could benefit from more powerful drum sound design tools and would actually do it, then it’s totally worth it.

If you’re mostly a preset user, there aren’t a ton of them (but there are still plenty of dope sounds).

klownshed

@god said:
on the fence here.. 16USD, worth it? Already own EG pulse and hammerhead.

It’s worth it to me and I have way too many iOS drum machines and drum synths. I like synth drums.

Technically I could make all the synth drums I could ever want with all the other synths and drum apps I have. But I like drum machines so am happy to have too many of them.

I wouldn’t personally buy it if i just wanted sampled drums as you have that covered with pulse.

Ultimately you’ll have to judge for yourself whether it’s worth if to you. The demos give a good representation of the kind of sounds it’s good at. :-)

god

@wim said:

@god said:
on the fence here.. 16USD, worth it? Already own EG pulse and hammerhead.

If you feel you can already do all the sound design and sample playback you want in those then there’s no reason to go for it. If you feel like you could benefit from more powerful drum sound design tools and would actually do it, then it’s totally worth it.

If you’re mostly a preset user, there aren’t a ton of them (but there are still plenty of dope sounds).

@klownshed said:

@god said:
on the fence here.. 16USD, worth it? Already own EG pulse and hammerhead.

It’s worth it to me and I have way too many iOS drum machines and drum synths. I like synth drums.

Technically I could make all the synth drums I could ever want with all the other synths and drum apps I have. But I like drum machines so am happy to have too many of them.

I wouldn’t personally buy it if i just wanted sampled drums as you have that covered with pulse.

Ultimately you’ll have to judge for yourself whether it’s worth if to you. The demos give a good representation of the kind of sounds it’s good at. :-)

Okay! Thank you both, appreciate your input!
I'll give the demos a look and then most likely wait until a meaningful sale is held.

jonmoore

@god said:
on the fence here.. 16USD, worth it? Already own EG pulse and hammerhead.

Something that makes it essential for me is the 'play sample in place' nature of FAC Drumkit. Most people have 1000's of drum samples and it's particularly liberating to have access to your drum sample collection from whatever iOS repository you've set up (either on device, or on an external drive) without having to first import them to a FAC Drumkit.

That may seem like a small workflow thing, but the reality is that it really speeds up the audition process of building kits from bespoke samples (rather than the samples a drum app ships with).

As for the $16 asking price. Fred has mentioned that this is the intro price, so if you wait for a sale, the intro price will most likely have increased before any sale discount is applied.

god

@jonmoore said:

@god said:
on the fence here.. 16USD, worth it? Already own EG pulse and hammerhead.

Something that makes it essential for me is the 'play sample in place' nature of FAC Drumkit. Most people have 1000's of drum samples and it's particularly liberating to have access to your drum sample collection from whatever iOS repository you've set up (either on device, or on an external drive) without having to first import them to a FAC Drumkit.

That may seem like a small workflow thing, but the reality is that it really speeds up the audition process of building kits from bespoke samples (rather than the samples a drum app ships with).

As for the $16 asking price. Fred has mentioned that this is the intro price, so if you wait for a sale, the intro price will most likely have increased before any sale discount is applied.

Alright, I YOLO’ed. 😂
Really cool stuff!

mjm1138

Hey look at this tweet from @FredAntonCorvest
https://twitter.com/fac_corvest/status/1493975632644128772

Wishes are coming true!

eross

is it gonna be a sequencer? that would be cool

Samu

From the twitter post it's quite clear that it's support for longer samples...
...and maybe, just maybe chromatic playback of samples.
(Ie. use lowest octave to select sound and upper keys to play it).

anickt

“Guess the new features of the next updates by listening to this jam made only with #FacDrumkit”

“Made only with…”

Sequencer?

Poppadocrock

@McD said:

@Poppadocrock said:

@McD said:
I'm not a sound designer... do you think we can set up a "PatchStorage" project and get more Presets and sample content?

Fred actually asked about it on Twitter, myself and someone else strongly recommend patch storage. He seemed like he was leaning toward doing it. Maybe another tweet or 2, or just ask him if you can set it up for voting… I really hope it gets a Patchstorage page. I’ll vote immediately.

Looked into his twitter feed and couldn't find it. Any links appreciated if you see it.

I’ve only just noticed this message my bad @McD. I’m guessing you’re good now.

Poppadocrock

@muzka said:
And is anyone triggering fac drumkit with drum computer sequencer?

Thanks

Not yet…

Poppadocrock

@anickt said:

@Ailerom said:

@FredAntonCorvest said:

@Ailerom said:
@FredAntonCorvest Thanks for the wonderful update. I knew the preset manager was being moved but didn't realise it was being removed from the standalone. That is a real shame personally as that's the place where I would tinker and create, but not much point now without any save. Is there a technical reason why the preset manager can't exist in both versions?

The goal is to use Drumkit with other synths and control it with external midi, thanks to the responsive UI you can even maximise the view to get the same version (UI) as the standalone one in AUM or any other hosts. My focus (and it will be the case for all the series) is AuV3 all the way. The standalone for Drumkit is a factory only version. Please simply open AUM or other host and add Drumkit as main instrument.

That is unfortunately not the way I work. As a guitarist I have always developed sounds before writing. When putting a song together that last thing I want to waste my time on is sound design. Tweaking the sounds I had in my head is ok but I want that time to be focused on writing. I am usually able to get away with tweaking sounds after arranging and during mixing.

Just open Drumkit in AUM to do sound design. It’s not significantly different to opening a standalone.

I like to save stuff like this as a template, in AUM, in my Templates folder. I can always just open the premade template, mess around save a preset, and clear session when done. I have a bunch templates set up for sound design, for midimixer, and midi input templates for apps like piano motifs, beatonal, Beatly Pro. All the connections, routings, channels, and apps set up, just waiting to send and record the midi in Atom 2 or Helium. Saving templates can be a huge time saver for stuff like this.

realdawei

No sequencer, but if he decides to add one in the future I’m sure it would perfectly executed

anickt

@realdawei said:
No sequencer, but if he decides to add one in the future I’m sure it would perfectly executed

You know this for certain?

FredAntonCorvest

Here a quick video preview of FAC Drumkit 2.6.3 FREE fixes and NEW features!

• Max time is 4s
• Velocity Amount for AMPs
• External Midi CC Pitch Modulation (Max 3 pts or Env)
• Ring Mod between OSC I/II
• Soft clipper for each voice
• Voice renaming

If you got the App since day one, you know how many features I’ve already added.

Existing users please support FAC via the app ⮕ here and rate and review here ❤️

FAC Drumkit on the App Store ⮕ here
Get it now, the price will be updated on the release day.

oceansinspace

This looks great! I am still using seek beets and DC but this may be a nice add-on to the more synth drums I program. Would you say this is more realistic sounding or synth drum? It looks kinda in-between.... Cheers.

gregsmith

@FredAntonCorvest said:
Here a quick video preview of FAC Drumkit 2.6.3 FREE fixes and NEW features!

• Max time is 4s
• Velocity Amount for AMPs
• External Midi CC Pitch Modulation (Max 3 pts or Env)
• Ring Mod between OSC I/II
• Soft clipper for each voice
• Voice renaming

If you got the App since day one, you know how many features I’ve already added.

Existing users please support FAC via the app ⮕ here and rate and review here ❤️

FAC Drumkit on the App Store ⮕ here
Get it now, the price will be updated on the release day.

Looking awesome @FredAntonCorvest

Thanks for listening to our requests 👍👌🙌