How many make music because of J Dilla?

Tarekith

I'm just trying to learn WHY he is so special to people, I'm in no way, shape, or form trying to doubt it. A lot of musicians I have a lot of respect for cite him as a major influence, but no one has ever really gone into detail about what it was J Dilla was doing that made them feel that way.

Even as a guitar player it always baffled me why people thought Hendrix was so good when I thought he was kinda sloppy initially (I was into guitarists with "cleaner" technique like Satch or Vai). Then other people who were big fans passed on certain performances to me, or documentaries that explored what he did in greater detail and then it all clicked for me. Just looking for that sort of connection with this artist as well.

supadom

@AudioGus said:

@supadom said:

@Simon said:
Superdom is correct. Whether we are prepared to admit it or not, all of us here make music because of Phyllis Dilla.

You have no idea what I’m on about do you? I will forgive you though cause I have no idea what you’re on about.

I believe this was an attempt on Simon's part at starting a series of evolving, often humorous, non-sequitur replies. This has become quite popular on the internet, particularly on 'forums' such as Reddit. However, the odds of it propagating now have been severely diminished.

Ah cool. I’m not much of a social media buff.

Stuntman_mike

@espiegel123 said:
For those that doubt J Dilla was anything special, spend some time reading interviews with musicians influenced by him. When scores of musicians tell you that someone’s music was life-changing and changed how they approach things — believe it even if you can’t hear why. Dilla has been dead 15 years and was influencing other musicians for 10 yeas before that. If you invest time, you will find That it was not just hip-hop and rap artists that were influenced by him.

If what he did doesn’t sound innovative to you, it is largely because he was so influential that a lot of what was innovative is commonplace. It is hard to listen to music decades after the fact and experience it as if you hadn’t heard all the music you have heard since then.

Listen to Louis Armstrong today and he may seem pretty run-of-the-mill. Listen to Sgt Pepper’s and it might seem like “what’s the big deal”, etc.

His music might not speak to you, but believe the scores and scores of musicians that tell you, his music changed their lives...which also means it influenced all the people they listened to.

And if rap and hip-hop as genres mean nothing to you, go find another thread. Not everyone appreciates every genre which is normal -- but if you don't appreciate a genre, you should probably pass on sharing your opinions about it.

Touché!

Stuntman_mike

@Tarekith said:
I'm just trying to learn WHY he is so special to people, I'm in no way, shape, or form trying to doubt it. A lot of musicians I have a lot of respect for cite him as a major influence, but no one has ever really gone into detail about what it was J Dilla was doing that made them feel that way.

Even as a guitar player it always baffled me why people thought Hendrix was so good when I thought he was kinda sloppy initially (I was into guitarists with "cleaner" technique like Satch or Vai). Then other people who were big fans passed on certain performances to me, or documentaries that explored what he did in greater detail and then it all clicked for me. Just looking for that sort of connection with this artist as well.

It’s the difference between being a singer and a “sanger”! Singers hit the notes perfectly. “Sangers” may or may not hit the notes perfectly, but they sing with emotion and have their own sound. Character is the difference. Dilla, as well as Hendrix, had immense character, gifted ears, a knack for happy accidents, and made stuff out of nothing. Dilla could flip a sample in a plethora of ways and nod to the original or create something completely different and genre bending. He was also nice on the mic and was a multi instrumentalist. Very inspiring!

P.S. I know some folks won’t understand. I have a friend who thinks Sia’s voice is trash. 🤦‍♂️ I responded in shock! I absolutely love her voice. I understand that some artists will be so different and polarizing that they will have naysayers and some people just won’t get it. Hopefully this thread is inspiring to those that get Dilla! ❤️

AudioGus

Stuntman_mike

@AudioGus said:

Yessir! That was dope!!!
Thank you so much for sharing!
One of my favorite SV tracks too!

Stuntman_mike

https://open.spotify.com/album/06Ee6dveq170ls1t52Cj6s?si=mtLP8mFHRdeMS_-4YiICHA

espiegel123

@Tarekith : if you spend some time with Google, you will find lots of articles and interviews talking about J Dilla's impact. I am no expert but this thread got me interested in exploring -- and there is a wealth of material to hep you to what the people he influenced have to say.

If anyone doesn't get why Hendrix was such a big deal, spend some time reading what guitar players at the time had to say. He pretty radically changed the vocabulary of the electric guitar. pretty much overnight he changed guitar players' notion of what the guitar could -- even the people he admired (like Clapton) changed their notion of what the electric guitar could do. And because his influence was so pervasive -- what was new doesn't sound new. Even a virtuoso level player like John McLaughlin was like "crap I never thought about all the sounds you could make with the guitar".

ksound

@Max23 said:

@ksound said:

@Max23 said:

@ExAsperis99 said:

@Max23 said:

@gusgranite said:

@Max23 said:

@gusgranite said:
@Tarekith I think this is a decent introduction to his sound https://www.okayplayer.com/originals/j-dilla-best-beats.html

A track I personally love is this one with Busta even if it isn’t his most inventive production. It’s just a classic hip hop tune with a different twist. Busta’s foul mouthed rhymes are the icing on the cake:

@Max23 what on earth are you going on about?

Im on about how ppl try to make this man a „posterboy for African American Culture“,
it’s like people try to make a postergirl out of Wendy Carlos for transsexuals.
People try to use these musicians for their own needs, to boost their low self-esteem.

Hmm. You might be overthinking this one...

Nope. People try to use these musicians for their own needs, to boost their low self-esteem.
And press them into a form that fits into their small minded views of the world.

You might need to sit this one out. You don’t know what you’re talking about at all. Dilla’s MPC is in the National Museum of African-American History and Culture, which is part of the Smithsonian Institute, and which seems perfectly appropriate.

Which seems perfectly appropriate to you.
What’s next?
Andy Warhol in the Smithsonian as posterboy for white mans history and culture?

Nah, you wouldn’t do that. He is just part of the Smithsonian American Art collection, ask yourself why.

With black people this and white people that you don’t win a flowerpot in my lottery.

A few years ago you told a forum member: “Don't make jokes about worlds you don't understand.” In the same thread you also corrected that “Not the whole world is white, male, straight and Christian.” https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/20061/suicide-linkin-park-singer/p4

Perhaps identity is only important to you when it’s about yourself. You’re out of your depth here, changing the subject to something you don’t understand on a thread about an artist. Consider relenting.

Cough cough
How hollow is your (understanding of) identity if you base it on your skin color?

Is it a facet? When you said “Not the whole world is white, male, straight and Christian” what alternatives did you have in mind for white?

Im having this kind of discussion all the time with Americans, and they never understand what I’m on about.

It’s telling that people in Americans “never understand” your ideas on our culture. You are speaking on worlds you have strong opinions and little knowledge of.

espiegel123

@Max23 said:

@legsmechanical said:
It’s about lifting up black culture which has historically been marginalized or appropriated or exploited by the institutions of white power.

And you think that is the right way to do it???
To separate it from the rest???
Argh 😣

You have no idea what you are talking about. Ignoring the reality of racism because racism shouldn't exist is not a sophisticated view -- it is an ignorant one.

Pretty much every word you have spoken about race and America indicates either that you are completely ignorant of African American history and present -- or you are totally insensitive (at best) to the fact that racism has a daily (and devastating) impact on the lives of tens of millions of people.

Ignoring racism doesn't make you some kind of wise sage.

McD

@espiegel123 said:
Ignoring racism doesn't make you some kind of wise sage.

I agree and we all have a lot of work to do in America and many other
countries on the true meaning of free and equal.

It looks like white privilege isn't just a problem in America.

The OP wants to celebrate the birthday of someone he reveres and here we are.

This result is the proof of the problem but it takes lot introspection to see it
if you're the problem.

Introspection starts with a simple question:

"What if I'm wrong in my assumptions about the world?"

Then work through the case where the answer is "Yes" even if you can't see it yet.

Dig deep.

HINT: Assume you are not the victim but someone else is and you could help address that.

If you don't want to play... then that's the problem.

I had a friend tell me: If you're not part of the solution, then you're a part of the problem. I replied "I'm not doing anything to hurt anyone." and she said "Yes, but we need your help."

This is an exercise that will span centuries and each of us has a role in the process.

wim

@espiegel123 said:
And if rap and hip-hop as genres mean nothing to you, go find another thread. Not everyone appreciates every genre which is normal -- but if you don't appreciate a genre, you should probably pass on sharing your opinions about it.

What? Why?

I'm not trying to pick a fight. I genuinely don't understand this sentiment. If everyone says the same thing then who learns anything?

As someone largely ignorant about and not all that into hip hop, I'm in this thread with all kinds of interest. I don't understand why anyone would want to tamp down different thoughts and experiences that could shed light on why those for whom J Dilla's is an influence. Maybe I personally don't want to get jumped on by being honest, but I definitely appreciate the discussion that results when someone does speak up honestly (off-topic race/political sidelights excluded).

Is it just because controversial discussion makes some people especially uncomfortable, or is there some point of etiquette I'm missing here? This is a genuine question and not meant to be provocative.

Anyway ... I am enjoying this thread and learning a lot from it. Maybe answering my question isn't what I'm after because that would just be another off-topic diversion. I guess my point in posting is to register a vote for open discussion rather than simply one-sided affirmation.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

legsmechanical

@McD said:

@espiegel123 said:
Ignoring racism doesn't make you some kind of wise sage.

I agree and we all have a lot of work to do in America and many other
countries on the true meaning of free and equal.

It looks like white privilege isn't just a problem in America.

The OP wants to celebrate the birthday of someone he reveres and here we are.

This result is the proof of the problem but it takes lot introspection to see it
if you're the problem.

Introspection starts with a simple question:

"What if I'm wrong in my assumptions about the world?"

Then work through the case where the answer is "Yes" even if you can't see it yet.

Dig deep.

HINT: Assume you are not the victim but someone else is and you could help address that.

If you don't want to play... then that's the problem.

I had a friend tell me: If you're not part of the solution, then you're a part of the problem. I replied "I'm not doing anything to hurt anyone." and she said "Yes, but we need your help."

This is an exercise that will span centuries and each of us has a role in the process.

'Nuff said.

Simon

@supadom said:

You have no idea what I’m on about do you? I will forgive you though cause I have no idea what you’re on about.

You are correct - I have no idea what you are on about. But I have no idea of what I am on about either... ::-)

Just trying to lighten a thread that was becoming a bit "heavy".

legsmechanical

@Max23 said:

Im not ignoring rassism
and neither I’m supportive of ideas that bang on the importance of skincolor because it leads nowhere.

Ask any black person in America how important their skin color is to the way they're forced to interact with the world around them. You might be surprised how important it is.

audiobussy

@Tarekith Dilla’s ability to play with time is truly remarkable. Rather than just being a little ahead of the beat or a little behind it, He does whatever he wants at any given moment, making the music breathe. He can make it strut, glide, jilt, shake, etc. This sophistication is to rhythm what micro tuning is to Melody. Perhaps similarly , a lot of people do not understand, appreciate, or enjoy classical Indian music.

And Max, you are a wart on this forum.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

espiegel123

@wim said:

@espiegel123 said:
And if rap and hip-hop as genres mean nothing to you, go find another thread. Not everyone appreciates every genre which is normal -- but if you don't appreciate a genre, you should probably pass on sharing your opinions about it.

What? Why?

I'm not trying to pick a fight. I genuinely don't understand this sentiment. If everyone says the same thing then who learns anything?

As someone largely ignorant about and not all that into hip hop, I'm in this thread with all kinds of interest. I don't understand why anyone would want to tamp down different thoughts and experiences that could shed light on why those for whom J Dilla's is an influence. Maybe I personally don't want to get jumped on by being honest, but I definitely appreciate the discussion that results when someone does speak up honestly (off-topic race/political sidelights excluded).

Is it just because controversial discussion makes some people especially uncomfortable, or is there some point of etiquette I'm missing here? This is a genuine question and not meant to be provocative.

Anyway ... I am enjoying this thread and learning a lot from it. Maybe answering my question isn't what I'm after because that would just be another off-topic diversion. I guess my point in posting is to register a vote for open discussion rather than simply one-sided affirmation.

@wim: the point I was making was that if someone is dismissive of a genre (as at least one commenter in the thread is), coming into a discussion and being entirely dismissive is not constructive engagement. I was not implying that someone shouldn't participate if they aren't interested in the genre. The point is that if you are inherently dismissive of a genre than coming into a room and putting the genre down isn't an exercise in good faith dialog.

Nothing I said implied one has to have one-sided affirmation. But if one has a closed mind why come in and put the music down? That just seems like trolling to me.

supadom

@Simon said:

@supadom said:

You have no idea what I’m on about do you? I will forgive you though cause I have no idea what you’re on about.

You are correct - I have no idea what you are on about. But I have no idea of what I am on about either... ::-)

Just trying to lighten a thread that was becoming a bit "heavy".

Cool man

wim

@espiegel123 thanks for the insight.

I'd rather have it all. If people feel like they'll get jumped on for being at all contrary, or that they have to couch their little bits of criticism in layers of disclaimers or made-up praise then they're less likely to provide their perspective. I find that unfortunate. But that's just me.

Sorry for the OT distraction. Back to the regularly scheduled broadcast.

McD

@Stuntman_mike said:
Happy Born Day Dilla! You continue to influence music makers that weren’t even born when you were alive. Your instrument is immortalized in the Smithsonian 🙌🏽

Thank you for putting this thread up. I've been watching the J Dilla youtube videos.

The stories of record store shopping sessions and the hours of dedication mentally cataloging the contents of those records to find new sources of inspiration for something new.

It helps me understand my nephew and the 2,000 records in his garage.

PeteSasqwax

Ever wonder why it's only white people who argue that people should just stop seeing things in terms of colour? Qwhite a privileged perspective.

Society is a canoe (no, not North American society: society). Those holding the paddle have spent so much time and effort paddling on the same side that it's going to take one hell of an effort of paddling back the other way to reach equality.

Stuntman_mike

@McD said:

@Stuntman_mike said:
Happy Born Day Dilla! You continue to influence music makers that weren’t even born when you were alive. Your instrument is immortalized in the Smithsonian 🙌🏽

Thank you for putting this thread up. I've been watching the J Dilla youtube videos.

The stories of record store shopping sessions and the hours of dedication mentally cataloging the contents of those records to find new sources of inspiration for something new.

It helps me understand my nephew and the 2,000 records in his garage.

Wow, so awesome! I find this thread more valuable than the music Dilla represents... this discussion is valuable and I personally appreciate all the opinions. We Americans wish racism could be turned off like light switch. As a biracial American I experienced racism from both sides of my family. I love my family regardless, but color is very intertwined into our language and culture because the United States is open to all cultures and ideas. We realize a person’s culture has a lot to do with who they are, but we all deserve respect.

Tarekith

@audiobussy said:
@Tarekith Dilla’s ability to play with time is truly remarkable. Rather than just being a little ahead of the beat or a little behind it, He does whatever he wants at any given moment, making the music breathe. He can make it strut, glide, jilt, shake, etc. This sophistication is to rhythm what micro tuning is to Melody. Perhaps similarly , a lot of people do not understand, appreciate, or enjoy classical Indian music.

And Max, you are a wart on this forum.

Thanks for that.

jonnycat

@Simon said:
Just trying to lighten a thread that was becoming a bit "heavy".

Who do you think you are trying to inject humor into a conversation on the internet, don't you know that this is a no fun zone? I am reporting you to the cyber-police!

Tarekith

Found some good documentaries on the Tube that really explained more about him. Pretty amazing work ethic, seems super humble too. Inspired me to start flipping samples in my 707, which actually turned into a pretty good song idea. Good stuff, I learned a bunch and got some ideas of my own too.

JohnnyGoodyear

@Tarekith said:
Found some good documentaries on the Tube that really explained more about him. Pretty amazing work ethic, seems super humble too. Inspired me to start flipping samples in my 707, which actually turned into a pretty good song idea. Good stuff, I learned a bunch and got some ideas of my own too.

OK, now you've got me interested Look forward to a short sample-flipping 707 video....

Tarekith

These Red Means Recording videos explain it better than I could.

ksound

@Max23 said:

@ksound said:

@Max23 said:

@ksound said:

@Max23 said:

@ExAsperis99 said:

@Max23 said:

@gusgranite said:

@Max23 said:

@gusgranite said:
@Tarekith I think this is a decent introduction to his sound https://www.okayplayer.com/originals/j-dilla-best-beats.html

A track I personally love is this one with Busta even if it isn’t his most inventive production. It’s just a classic hip hop tune with a different twist. Busta’s foul mouthed rhymes are the icing on the cake:

@Max23 what on earth are you going on about?

Im on about how ppl try to make this man a „posterboy for African American Culture“,
it’s like people try to make a postergirl out of Wendy Carlos for transsexuals.
People try to use these musicians for their own needs, to boost their low self-esteem.

Hmm. You might be overthinking this one...

Nope. People try to use these musicians for their own needs, to boost their low self-esteem.
And press them into a form that fits into their small minded views of the world.

You might need to sit this one out. You don’t know what you’re talking about at all. Dilla’s MPC is in the National Museum of African-American History and Culture, which is part of the Smithsonian Institute, and which seems perfectly appropriate.

Which seems perfectly appropriate to you.
What’s next?
Andy Warhol in the Smithsonian as posterboy for white mans history and culture?

Nah, you wouldn’t do that. He is just part of the Smithsonian American Art collection, ask yourself why.

With black people this and white people that you don’t win a flowerpot in my lottery.

A few years ago you told a forum member: “Don't make jokes about worlds you don't understand.” In the same thread you also corrected that “Not the whole world is white, male, straight and Christian.” https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/20061/suicide-linkin-park-singer/p4

Perhaps identity is only important to you when it’s about yourself. You’re out of your depth here, changing the subject to something you don’t understand on a thread about an artist. Consider relenting.

Cough cough
How hollow is your (understanding of) identity if you base it on your skin color?

Is it a facet? When you said “Not the whole world is white, male, straight and Christian” what alternative did you have in mind for white?

It’s telling that people in North America don’t “get” your ideas on our culture. You are speaking on worlds you don’t understand.

stuff that seems to be social accepted behavior in the USA is totally alien to me.
And I’m glad I don’t have to understand that because I don’t life in an environment that supports

Asking again: When you said “Not the whole world is white, male, straight and Christian” what alternative did you have for white? I’m just wondering how recently you’ve gone colorblind.