Zenbeats 2.1

ipadbeatmaking

@Samu said:

@ipadbeatmaking said:

@GLacey said:

@ipadbeatmaking said:
Thanks... for some reason i get this. Any ideas?

Strange...
Which OS version do you have? I’m on 13.7

14.3 I REALLY hope this isn’t an iOS thing.

What is your 'interface scaling' set to?
(Mine is 100%).

That did it! The interface scaling wasn’t at 100% and button size wasn’t maxed either, since changing those settings it works!!! Wow that is beautiful!! @MatthewAtZenbeats be sure to add that to the manual

Thanks @Samu !!

Samu

@ipadbeatmaking said:

@Samu said:
iPad Air 2, iPadOS14.4

I am jealous! I can’t get that action on my iPad Pro 11”! I’ll try a restart

Check the interface scaling...
Normally I use 120% on my iPad Air 2 since my eye sight is getting bad and at 120% it's always big fullscreen sliders

Samu

Hmmm.

Seems like pinch to zoom in & out freezes the note editor?! (Ie. no longer possible to tap to select notes).
In order to regain functionality, go to settings and change interface scaling to another value, tap ok, go back to settings and change it back.

Boom notes can be selected again by tapping, use two finger pinch to zoom and boom notes can no longer be selected...

reasOne

@tahiche said:

@reasOne said:
Ahh ya that’s strange to me to control the controller with the software. If there was a dedicated zenbeats controller tho i would be all over that. Any daw with a custom controller tends to be a great thing IMO

That’s what I was expecting. I don’t want the Push or Maschine as I don’t want to be tied to a desktop, but with the iPad it’s different and there’s no such product.

I know right, we need one!
I mean gadget is the only daw with a dedicated controller but that’s not really a full on daw! I like it but i would love a zenbeats controller

ipadbeatmaking

@Samu said:
Hmmm.

Seems like pinch to zoom in & out freezes the note editor?! (Ie. no longer possible to tap to select notes).
In order to regain functionality, go to settings and change interface scaling to another value, tap ok, go back to settings and change it back.

Boom notes can be selected again by tapping, use two finger pinch to zoom and boom notes can no longer be selected...

Im not getting the note selection issue, but I am getting pinch to zoom behavior that isn't fluid or consistent. Sometimes it works sometimes it's unresponsive

tahiche

Loopop review on Zenbeats and MV-1. As he points out “literally turns Zenbeats into a screen for the MV-1”. Again, that’s not what I call “integration”.

Samu

@ipadbeatmaking said:

Im not getting the note selection issue, but I am getting pinch to zoom behavior that isn't fluid or consistent. Sometimes it works sometimes it's unresponsive

Yeah, it's quite 'random' but it's good to know that if/when the UI 'locks' up changing the UI scaling can temporarily fix it.
I've got the 'one finger zoom' thing some times and pinch zoom is a bit quirky so I tend to use the +/- buttons.

Performance seems to be improved.
I can now run 5 ZC-1's reliably on my iPad Air 2 without crackling. It was 2-3 instances max before...

For my degrading eye-sight I need to use the 120% UI Zoom on the 9.7" screen for somewhat comfortable user experience.
Could be that some of 'glitches' are related to UI scaling?

Anyways, it's nice to see an update to ZenBeats!

Don't know how big team @MatthewAtZenbeats has over at Roland but I'm pretty sure they're doing the best they can and a supporting a multi-platform app is no easy task. I have no idea how it runs on all the other supported platforms...

With most other apps it's relatively easy to track down a repeatable procedure for glitches but it feels like Zenbeats behaves differently between launches and reboots making it a real pita to track down issues which brings out the worst WTF moments I've experienced in a long time (it's to that extent that I just give up and focus on other apps).

Cheers!

krassmann

@tahiche said:

Loopop review on Zenbeats and MV-1. As he points out “literally turns Zenbeats into a screen for the MV-1”. Again, that’s not what I call “integration”.

But I think that's a very valid use case for MV-1 owners. It's probably not what you are up to but it's still valid. I find this quite interesting as this is a rather unusual approach to extend a hardware's capabilities with a software solution. I've seen quite often the opposite approach, Ableton Push, Launchpad etc.

But it would be sad if this is what is Roland's only intention for Zenbeats. I think they should also extend Zenbeats in the other direction and support popular hardware controllers without spending much time to MIDI learn everything. I think Imaginando's LK has got quite a nice take on that: support popular devices out of the box but also offer MIDI learn.

ipadbeatmaking

Great points @tahiche & @krassmann!

@MatthewAtZenbeats can we get QWERTY keyboard support on iOS please?

muzka

This program infuriates me. Tried it out after the update. Got a good groove going and added moog model d only for it sound distorted. Almost 30 minutes and the issues start. Try to alter buffer size and as usual it crashes losing everything

I am not sure if its just me but no other daw crashes as much for me and i really want to use it more. Outside of drambo it’s my fav daw but these constant glitches and crashes are soul destroying

Sergiu

Yes, stability is still sketchy

echoopera

All i want to ask is why is the Default control in the Piano Roll view a Selection tool and not a Draw Tool?

I want to lay down notes on a blank piano tool, not go to the Select Menu and Tap on Draw to create my masterpiece 😉

Select should be a secondary UI event of the Draw Tool, via Press+Hold. iOS interaction 101 ya know 🧐

This app being on Android is killing so many useful interactions and workflows on iOS by trying to serve too many platforms at once IMHO.

ajmiller

Not only on iOS but the desktop is the same - has some serious workflow issues. I won’t be continuing my subscription (if I can work out what subscription I have!).

@echoopera said:
This app being on Android is killing so many useful interactions and workflows on iOS by trying to serve too many platforms at once IMHO.

steve99

@krassmann said:
Now there is a Guide. You find it in the main menu under Help -> Open Help

https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/Zenbeats_ver21_start_guide_eng01_W.pdf

A manual - finally, my number one feature request

Still no idea what ‘block all raw midi CCs’ does though. I assume it blocks all raw midi CCs, but why and when would I want to do that or not?

krassmann

@steve99 said:

@krassmann said:
Now there is a Guide. You find it in the main menu under Help -> Open Help

https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/Zenbeats_ver21_start_guide_eng01_W.pdf

A manual - finally, my number one feature request

Still no idea what ‘block all raw midi CCs’ does though. I assume it blocks all raw midi CCs, but why and when would I want to do that or not?

You need to turn that off if you want to record CCs for example from MIDI controllers with knobs, sliders or pads. You also need to turn this off before you can MIDI learn a synth with such controllers.

Schmotown

@Jumpercollins said:

@krassmann said:

@ipadbeatmaking said:
FINALLY THEY GOT RID OF THOSE TINY TINY FADERS!!!!!!!!

Did we get busses/aux/groups in this version? Please tell me we did 🙏 @MatthewAtZenbeats

Hmmm... for me faders look the same as before. And... well, I can't see any busses/aux/groups. But I would also support that. AudioBus integration would be also great.

It’s the arrow on the master fader you have to select to get the full screen faders

I can reveal the long faders on the iPad but it's not working in MacOS. Anyone else try it on a Mac?

krassmann

Okay, today I spend some more time with Zenbeats. Unfortunately I also see still lots of problems. I experienced several crashes. When using CCs from external gear then a lot of crazy things can happen. Suddenly CCs were changing global tempo of Zenbeats, sometimes the whole MIDI in data processing seemed to be congested and when I turn the knobs. I connected my MicroFreak and playing some notes totally confused Zenbeats until I turned off all features under the cogwheel of the MicroFreak’s MIDI in settings. Apart from that buggy behaviour there are also lots of missing features.

1. Background audio
2. Unable to send MIDI clock and therefore no sync of external gear, e.g. synth arp
3. There is no way to see the MIDI learnend instrument parameters. Generally MIDI learn instrument parameters is hard how to do it: Show instrument plugin -> four-blocks menu -> show parameters, then hit MIDI learn.

It’s quite a pity because generally I do like Zenbeats a lot. I like the ableton style working with sessions and then recording your jam into a timeline. It’s a pretty nice workflow. But stability and missing features are driving me back to Cubasis 😔

muzka

These updates are well and good but stability should be the main focus

I know it looks good on paper but I need a stress free experience and this could be so good if it just worked without freezing or crashing

MatthewAtZenbeats

@Samu said:
I'll give it a spin later today...

Don't know if it's 'placebo' but it feels a bit more fluid on my ancient iPad Air 2, iPadOS14.4.

Love the 'Force 44.1' option that can be used on the iPhone 8 to keep sample-rates under control for projects.

Will check the new and improved audio-routing as well, who knows maybe ZenBeats is the first app that allows us to directly pipe audio from an AUv3 to an audio track

Thats not possible currently but I too would love this ability.

MatthewAtZenbeats

@tahiche said:
Nice new features in this update!. 👏 Specially the output selection per tracks.

Will check the new and improved audio-routing as well, who knows maybe ZenBeats is the first app that allows us to directly pipe audio from an AUv3 to an audio track

I haven’t tried it yet, this would be awesome but I doubt it works out of the box. But I guess there’s a workaround if you physically connect some outs to ins in your audio interface, in a loopback fashion. One of the reasons I really wanted the outputs option was to do effects loops with some guitar pedals and possibly use an old iPad as an effects unit. I have a Zedi 10 and it’s pretty good for this setup (I hope).

I’ve posted about VerseLab integration elsewhere, as I had seen a video of the beta. I have to say I find it disappointing. I only it’s only the first iteration but I don’t get the workflow.
The way I see it you have 3 “options”:
1) Zenbeats enhances VerseLab
2) VerseLab enhances Zenbeats
3) True integration
From what I see they’ve implemented option 1. Zenbeats serves just as an editor for VerseLab.
You can’t seem to use VerseLab as a hands-on controller and improve Zenbeats experience, using VerseLab in existing Zenbeats projects. In the video, using VerseLab mode you can’t even seem to add tracks outside the Verselab “space”. Which brings me to the most important point. VerseLab has, in my opinion, huge audio time limitation. 6 min stereo or 12 min mono overall per project, that’s nowhere enough for recording instruments, resampling, external gear... I hoped Zenbeats integration would allow to bypass this, being able to record into the iPad and use iPad resources from VerseLab. Doesn’t seem like this is the case.
In summary it seems to me like it’s a one-way integration. VerseLab benefits from Zenbeats as the missing big screen, that’s about it. Given the audio time limitations I can’t/wouldn’t make good use of the Verselab standalone. I wish it would enhance the Zenbeats experience: provide a dedicated hardware control as in Ableton Push or Maschine. Less screen for Zenbeats vs more screen for VerseLab; use the onboard sounds and synth. Audio interface + controller + sound engine.
So yeah, I’m a bit disappointed. Been waiting to see how the integration worked and i just don’t see it. It’s targeted as a “finish a song” machine for hip hop or trap singers. That’s a huge mistake IMO and limits the user base. I want to stress that I’m being critical only cos I love Zenbeats and my expectations were high for VerseLab.
I would love to hear your opinions, maybe it suits your workflow just fine. Please let me know if you own it and how it works for you.

@krassmann said:
They removed the ‘Enable Background Audio‘ option from the audio settings. Or am I too stupid to find it now? That‘s really bad. So you can have Ableton Link enabled but can‘t switch to another app without Zenbeats being stopped. @MatthewAtZenbeats why? This surely breaks the workflow of many iOS users.

Regarding the Background Audio option removal. That should not have been the case. Let me investigate this one.

MatthewAtZenbeats

@tahiche said:
Nice new features in this update!. 👏 Specially the output selection per tracks.

Will check the new and improved audio-routing as well, who knows maybe ZenBeats is the first app that allows us to directly pipe audio from an AUv3 to an audio track

I haven’t tried it yet, this would be awesome but I doubt it works out of the box. But I guess there’s a workaround if you physically connect some outs to ins in your audio interface, in a loopback fashion. One of the reasons I really wanted the outputs option was to do effects loops with some guitar pedals and possibly use an old iPad as an effects unit. I have a Zedi 10 and it’s pretty good for this setup (I hope).

I’ve posted about VerseLab integration elsewhere, as I had seen a video of the beta. I have to say I find it disappointing. I only it’s only the first iteration but I don’t get the workflow.
The way I see it you have 3 “options”:
1) Zenbeats enhances VerseLab
2) VerseLab enhances Zenbeats
3) True integration
From what I see they’ve implemented option 1. Zenbeats serves just as an editor for VerseLab.
You can’t seem to use VerseLab as a hands-on controller and improve Zenbeats experience, using VerseLab in existing Zenbeats projects. In the video, using VerseLab mode you can’t even seem to add tracks outside the Verselab “space”. Which brings me to the most important point. VerseLab has, in my opinion, huge audio time limitation. 6 min stereo or 12 min mono overall per project, that’s nowhere enough for recording instruments, resampling, external gear... I hoped Zenbeats integration would allow to bypass this, being able to record into the iPad and use iPad resources from VerseLab. Doesn’t seem like this is the case.
In summary it seems to me like it’s a one-way integration. VerseLab benefits from Zenbeats as the missing big screen, that’s about it. Given the audio time limitations I can’t/wouldn’t make good use of the Verselab standalone. I wish it would enhance the Zenbeats experience: provide a dedicated hardware control as in Ableton Push or Maschine. Less screen for Zenbeats vs more screen for VerseLab; use the onboard sounds and synth. Audio interface + controller + sound engine.
So yeah, I’m a bit disappointed. Been waiting to see how the integration worked and i just don’t see it. It’s targeted as a “finish a song” machine for hip hop or trap singers. That’s a huge mistake IMO and limits the user base. I want to stress that I’m being critical only cos I love Zenbeats and my expectations were high for VerseLab.
I would love to hear your opinions, maybe it suits your workflow just fine. Please let me know if you own it and how it works for you.

Hi @tahiche

Thanks for the feedback. You're correct in that this release is primarily on enhancing the workflow of the Verselab, specifically in the Clip/Seq, Section and Mixer workflows. As mentioned though, we are just getting started and you can expect deeper integration in future releases.

Telstar5

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:

Thanks for the feedback. You're correct in that this release is primarily on enhancing the workflow of the Verselab, specifically in the Clip/Seq, Section and Mixer workflows. As mentioned though, we are just getting started and you can expect deeper integration in future releases.

👍👍👍Great to know !

cretakano

@MatthewAtZenbeats iPhone resolution is fixed in latest update, thanks!

Also, the “Generate presets from SVZ” option in ZC1 still doesn’t do anything after importing a bank. Is it meant to save these presets in to the user bank?

mojozart

Adding separate track outputs in 2.1 got my attention.

steve99

@krassmann said:

@steve99 said:

@krassmann said:
Now there is a Guide. You find it in the main menu under Help -> Open Help

https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/Zenbeats_ver21_start_guide_eng01_W.pdf

A manual - finally, my number one feature request

Still no idea what ‘block all raw midi CCs’ does though. I assume it blocks all raw midi CCs, but why and when would I want to do that or not?

You need to turn that off if you want to record CCs for example from MIDI controllers with knobs, sliders or pads. You also need to turn this off before you can MIDI learn a synth with such controllers.

Thank you - I’ve been twiddling, so I must have turned it off before - there’s always been a lot of guesswork with Zenbeats settings and getting stuck not knowing the difference between a function or a bug. Glad to have the manual (and forum wisdom) to cut through the confusion.

Does anyone know if Roli Blocks integration still works? This was one of my favourite things about Zenbeats, but I can’t see the settings anymore. I’ll try myself some point soon and update if no one else beats me to the answer.

EDIT: ROLI Blocks integration working as before. Transport controls from Loop block working fine. What threw me was the ‘star’ settings menu that used to be above the track solo button has gone, now accessible by a long press on the track header. In that dropdown you can assign blocks to individual tracks (without needing to select them in the main midi input settings).

tahiche

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:

Thanks for the feedback. You're correct in that this release is primarily on enhancing the workflow of the Verselab, specifically in the Clip/Seq, Section and Mixer workflows. As mentioned though, we are just getting started and you can expect deeper integration in future releases.

Great! 👍
If I may emphasize on the features that would be interesting for me about MV1 integration as a Zenbeats user:

• Hardware control. You’ve added a screen to the Mv1, I’d like hardware control for Zenbeats. Less screen!.
• MV1 audio limit. That is really a dealbreaker for me. If there was a good integration maybe you could use iPad (Zenbeats) for handling audio. So if connected you could bypass the 6/12 min limit. Also add linear arrangement and vocal tracks within Zenbeats.

@MatthewAtZenbeats thats you in the video right?. It was great putting a face on you!. Well done 👍

tahiche

Is anyone having problems freezing tracks since the last update?. It’s not working for me. I get either no sound at all or some crackle.
I believe the frozen clip display also looks different.

Telstar5

@tahiche said:

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:

Thanks for the feedback. You're correct in that this release is primarily on enhancing the workflow of the Verselab, specifically in the Clip/Seq, Section and Mixer workflows. As mentioned though, we are just getting started and you can expect deeper integration in future releases.

Great! 👍
If I may emphasize on the features that would be interesting for me about MV1 integration as a Zenbeats user:

• Hardware control. You’ve added a screen to the Mv1, I’d like hardware control for Zenbeats. Less screen!.
• MV1 audio limit. That is really a dealbreaker for me. If there was a good integration maybe you could use iPad (Zenbeats) for handling audio. So if connected you could bypass the 6/12 min limit. Also add linear arrangement and vocal tracks within Zenbeats.

@MatthewAtZenbeats thats you in the video right?. It was great putting a face on you!. Well done 👍

@tahiche : Oh man .. you nailed it . I thought of this too but didn’t think it was possible .. To be able th use the Zenbeats recorder to somehow get around that time limitation. Either that or if Roland came out with an MV1” pro” model, either way..
@MatthewAtZenbeats : He’s got a great feature request there. If there was that level of integration there (I’m talking future updates of course ) that would be a sure workaround for the 12 minute limit which would happen fast once you’d start layering stuff ).

Telstar5

I dunno about the “less screen “request though. Screen is good

tahiche

@Telstar5 said:
I dunno about the “less screen “request though. Screen is good

Touching pads and knobs is better 🙃