Moog Model D 1.3.2 update is out

DMfan

@NeuM said:

@DMfan said:

@NeuM said:

@DMfan said:
Moog FYI

Model D 1.3.3, all buffer sizes, iPad 2018 128 GB, iPadOS 14.4.2, crackles in both standalone and AU (3 instances in Zenbeats). No problems before updating.

Regards,
DMfan🇸🇪

Try increasing the “Preferred Audio Buffer Size” for that specific app via your iOS Settings.

Crackles regardless of buffer size unfortunately, tried them all. An app restart fixes it in standalone, but as soon as I use it as AU again the crackles start in standalone as well.

😔

Hmm. I presume you’ve also done a force restart of the device to clear out memory?

Sure have.

AudioGus

@NeuM said:

@AudioGus said:

@MoogMusicInc said:

@Bon_Tempi said:

@MoogMusicInc said:

@Bon_Tempi said:

@AudioGus said:

@Bon_Tempi said:

@MoogMusicInc said:

@drewinnit said:
I've luckily still not updated my Model D from the old version, before it became unstable...is it safe to update it now or are there still issues?

As far as we know there are no issues anymore and it's safe to update.

your friends at Moog

I got that impression from your last post that you think the problem is solved ... but I can’t confirm this for my case for example - and I also had the impression other users still report less performance stability compared to the situation “before” the update -

Hate to say it but I get a ‘yah we’re done’ corporate messaging vibe. They probably made changes to benefit the majority of users moving forward on more recent and future devices but for those on ‘older’ devices (four years or more, or maybe base models?) they tried their best, but sucks to be us. Welcome to the future?

Would be very sad if this would be the final result of this AUV3-CPU-Optimization-Update ...

@MoogMusicInc Is it?

And if its the final outcome ... that older devices not only do not benefit from this so called optimization but get a “downgrade” performance-wise instead - then this should have been communicated beforehand at least - so that a user of a such a device could have a made a conscious decision about updating or not ... at least ...

But lets not give hope here - maybe it can still get sorted out by Moog - I deeply hope so ,,,

Here is a video of the problem which I am facing with the update of Model -

IPad Pro 2017 12,9 - IOS 13.7
AUMSession - buffer: 1024
ModelD - Version 1.3.3.

Two instances of Model D running smoothly around DSP 30-45% with both AUV3-windows closed - as soon as I open the UI - I get spikes up to 110/120% and instant crackles

Video:

https://streamable.com/gzjc22

The interesting thing is - sometimes these UI-related crackles even happen at a DSP of around 80-90% (not in the video here - but maybe of interest for trouble shooting) - never experienced this with any other app ever.

Hi Bon_Tempi,

Here's the behavior on our oldest iPad Pro 12.9 inch from 2015 (model ML0N2NF/A) running iOS 14.4.2. We don't have the 12.9 inch model from 2017 but have the one from 2018 (model MTEM2LL/A) and that one opens up a lot more instances in a stable fashion.

... and here's a video of the UI behavior on the same 2015 iPad:

https://app.box.com/s/xdihknbbwj8yrzprm4wnm22gzcfzy117

your friends at Moog

Hi - thanks for getting back at me - and providing the informations about the behavior of your 2015model.

Really weird and irritating - don’t know what could cause such a difference - I even deleted Model D and set it up freshly - and I get the same result -

Basically not even a single instance of Model D is working correctly as soon as anything is added in conjunction to play a long with ... as this video shows:

Video:

https://streamable.com/hsib0w

Can this difference be caused by IOS 13 vs IOS 14?
Is there anything in the new versions of the app which requires in a mandatory way for IOS14?

We know this is not of much use for you, but we did another test with the 2018 iPad Pro 12.9 we have at 512 buffer size in AUM, and it also seems to behave just fine with the current App Store version of Model D :

https://app.box.com/s/65fu92ya6vornb8xwa7fzi9yypwcnoi6

One could say that the current version behaves just fine on my 2017 base iPad. I mean it is usable, particularly when starting a project from scratch. The ceiling is just a little lower now. Previous projects that used Model D will now require a bit more CPU and that could push them into stuttering territory where they were not before. So the only option will be to now free up resources. This just reaffirms the iPad for me more as a disposable sketch pad, where the sooner audio is exported and moved to desktop, the better.

When you say “2017 base iPad” what does that mean exactly? Is that the 9.7” iPad with 32 GB of storage? And how much storage is left on the iPad? Do you have a lot of files? I have a Pro with 128 GB of storage, but less than 10 GB of space left. I definitely cannot run large files anymore until I get a new model to replace it.

The 2017 9.7 iPad with 128gigs and plenty of room (storage shouldn’t really matter for this sort of thing). It is what it is. A small 5+% bump per instance in CPU use on this particular device.

NeuM

@AudioGus said:

@NeuM said:

@AudioGus said:

@MoogMusicInc said:

@Bon_Tempi said:

@MoogMusicInc said:

@Bon_Tempi said:

@AudioGus said:

@Bon_Tempi said:

@MoogMusicInc said:

@drewinnit said:
I've luckily still not updated my Model D from the old version, before it became unstable...is it safe to update it now or are there still issues?

As far as we know there are no issues anymore and it's safe to update.

your friends at Moog

I got that impression from your last post that you think the problem is solved ... but I can’t confirm this for my case for example - and I also had the impression other users still report less performance stability compared to the situation “before” the update -

Hate to say it but I get a ‘yah we’re done’ corporate messaging vibe. They probably made changes to benefit the majority of users moving forward on more recent and future devices but for those on ‘older’ devices (four years or more, or maybe base models?) they tried their best, but sucks to be us. Welcome to the future?

Would be very sad if this would be the final result of this AUV3-CPU-Optimization-Update ...

@MoogMusicInc Is it?

And if its the final outcome ... that older devices not only do not benefit from this so called optimization but get a “downgrade” performance-wise instead - then this should have been communicated beforehand at least - so that a user of a such a device could have a made a conscious decision about updating or not ... at least ...

But lets not give hope here - maybe it can still get sorted out by Moog - I deeply hope so ,,,

Here is a video of the problem which I am facing with the update of Model -

IPad Pro 2017 12,9 - IOS 13.7
AUMSession - buffer: 1024
ModelD - Version 1.3.3.

Two instances of Model D running smoothly around DSP 30-45% with both AUV3-windows closed - as soon as I open the UI - I get spikes up to 110/120% and instant crackles

Video:

https://streamable.com/gzjc22

The interesting thing is - sometimes these UI-related crackles even happen at a DSP of around 80-90% (not in the video here - but maybe of interest for trouble shooting) - never experienced this with any other app ever.

Hi Bon_Tempi,

Here's the behavior on our oldest iPad Pro 12.9 inch from 2015 (model ML0N2NF/A) running iOS 14.4.2. We don't have the 12.9 inch model from 2017 but have the one from 2018 (model MTEM2LL/A) and that one opens up a lot more instances in a stable fashion.

... and here's a video of the UI behavior on the same 2015 iPad:

https://app.box.com/s/xdihknbbwj8yrzprm4wnm22gzcfzy117

your friends at Moog

Hi - thanks for getting back at me - and providing the informations about the behavior of your 2015model.

Really weird and irritating - don’t know what could cause such a difference - I even deleted Model D and set it up freshly - and I get the same result -

Basically not even a single instance of Model D is working correctly as soon as anything is added in conjunction to play a long with ... as this video shows:

Video:

https://streamable.com/hsib0w

Can this difference be caused by IOS 13 vs IOS 14?
Is there anything in the new versions of the app which requires in a mandatory way for IOS14?

We know this is not of much use for you, but we did another test with the 2018 iPad Pro 12.9 we have at 512 buffer size in AUM, and it also seems to behave just fine with the current App Store version of Model D :

https://app.box.com/s/65fu92ya6vornb8xwa7fzi9yypwcnoi6

One could say that the current version behaves just fine on my 2017 base iPad. I mean it is usable, particularly when starting a project from scratch. The ceiling is just a little lower now. Previous projects that used Model D will now require a bit more CPU and that could push them into stuttering territory where they were not before. So the only option will be to now free up resources. This just reaffirms the iPad for me more as a disposable sketch pad, where the sooner audio is exported and moved to desktop, the better.

When you say “2017 base iPad” what does that mean exactly? Is that the 9.7” iPad with 32 GB of storage? And how much storage is left on the iPad? Do you have a lot of files? I have a Pro with 128 GB of storage, but less than 10 GB of space left. I definitely cannot run large files anymore until I get a new model to replace it.

The 2017 9.7 iPad with 128gigs and plenty of room (storage shouldn’t really matter for this sort of thing). It is what it is. A small 5+% bump per instance in CPU use on this particular device.

That is puzzling that you’d experience these issues.

Bon_Tempi

@MoogMusicInc said:

Hi - thanks for getting back at me - and providing the informations about the behavior of your 2015model.

Really weird and irritating - don’t know what could cause such a difference - I even deleted Model D and set it up freshly - and I get the same result -

Basically not even a single instance of Model D is working correctly as soon as anything is added in conjunction to play a long with ... as this video shows:

Video:

https://streamable.com/hsib0w

Can this difference be caused by IOS 13 vs IOS 14?
Is there anything in the new versions of the app which requires in a mandatory way for IOS14?

Hi Bon_Tempi,

We've not changed anything in the supported platforms or targeted versions, nor added any code that would be iOS version specific. We just did another test with FugueMachine like in your test, on our 2015 iPad Pro and we can't get the audio to stutter, even when opening the UI of both Model D instances and FugueMachine, closing and opening continuously. The UI of Model D does get a bit sluggish being dragged around, but the audio is not impacted.

Could you provide the exact model number of your iPad? Maybe we have an alternative iPad in our collection with the same CPU characteristics.

your friends at Moog

the model number is: MP6G2B/A

reasOne

@MoogMusicInc what do you think about future animoog audio unit options? Is it on the table or a hard no?

yaosichen

@MoogMusicInc said:

@yaosichen said:

@MoogMusicInc said:

@yaosichen said:

this happened after upgrade model 15 （v2.2.6 b269） when loading up as “trunk” fx ，anybody experience the same？

model 15
mini5
all software updated

This is probably not something we can do anything about. Please try to force quit all apps and restart your iPad, then first launch Model 15, and then AUM and try the AUv3. If that doesn't work, the download or install might be corrupt, please try offloading your app (don't delete it because you'll lose presets), and re-install it again. Then do the restart song and dance.

Hopefully this helps.

your friends at Moog

Sorry I tried that before and did it again ,just not working. Can you let me try the beta test version please?

We've re-enabled the TestFlight link for 24 hours so that you can try it out. Please note that this is the exact same binary as Apple distributed through the App Store. Hope it works for you.

your friends at Moog

Appreciate your effort，sadlly it still not work， hope you can get some report from betatest，it's hard work and you are doing your service great，thank you

VoytecG

My dear people!
If the buffer enlargement is our medicine, it means we're going backwards.
Greetings.

ashh

@ervin said:

@ashh said:

I'm thinking about moving to the Surface. Another iteration, maybe 2 and I'm definitely going to give it a try.

Is there a good number of touch-screen-using music-making software apps available for the surface? Genuine question. I don't like Apple at all but I can't see the non-desktop alternative to the ios world for music making.

Bitwig will do me. I don't really get a lot out of the touchscreen if I'm honest. MPE is kind of wibbling around the edges but I can get that via some midi thing or just not really miss it until it is much more mature.

ashh

@AudioGus said:

@ashh said:

@AudioGus said:
This is one of the main reasons now why I always wait before updating and only update if I am having specific problems. My iPad has something like 60 updates waiting.

Not being able to load old projects anymore because a couple plugins running a few instances decide to eat just a little more CPU and that old project that was hovering around 70-80% is a complete crackle fest over 100%... MEH! In fact that is a big reason why I have more or less bailed on iOS 'daws'/hosts.

This makes me wonder how Apple view their customers? Like, do they think an iPad user expects it to become obsolete after a few years? That, basically, we should see our iPad as disposable tech?

It is a new platform that has yet to mature in many ways. This reminds me a bit of how desktops were in the mid/late 90s where a computer was seemingly ‘out of date’ every three or four years. I recall issues with VST updates when they first started too. Loading up old presets and they sound all wonky, projects ruined etc. Anyway, dust more or less eventually settled there it seems.

I'm thinking about moving to the Surface. Another iteration, maybe 2 and I'm definitely going to give it a try.

I got a touchscreen monitor as a test for future tablet life. So far the Maschine software works not too bad as touch but there are a few sliders that are way to skinny. I hear Bitwig is good. Tried the demo on mouse/keyboard once. Maybe now that I have since wiped and reinstalled my computer I can try it again in touch mode.

These are the opinions I come here for. Very interesting, makes sense.

OnfraySin

@MoogMusicInc said:

@OnfraySin said:
iPad 2018, same problems with the new update. Reboot and re-installed.

2 instances, a few crackles, lagging and 95% CPU

3 instances, crackles everywhere.

Nop, is not working like before.

Can please you double-check the version number in the app?

Yes, last update.

OnfraySin

I tested on the last iPhone SE, it works perfect.

So yes, is something related to some iPad's version

VoytecG

@OnfraySin said:
I tested on the last iPhone SE, it works perfect.

So yes, is something related to some iPad's version

Just tested (during shopping) on my phone 11, and you’re right!!! 33% one instance. Buffer size 64.
Your post shows the way!

Pierre118

@MoogMusicInc said:

@Pierre118 said:
@MoogMusicInc

iPad Pro 12.9'' 2017, IOS 14.4.2

Buffersize 1024

1 instance 30-39%
2 instances 60-90%
3 instances 90->100% spikes

Where I before the updates could load 3 instances without any spikes , now it's limited to 2 instances.
Wish I never did the update.

Can you please try offloading Model D and re-installed the latest version from the App Store?

@MoogMusicInc Did all what is possible, but the bad results stays the same.

circledsquare

@FRibeiro said:
I just love all the Moog apps! Hoping for a definitive fix soon.

For those in need of some patches, I have this free collection of 100 patches for the Model 15.
Classic sounds, famous patches, and lots of patches for learning purposes (with description).
Hope you like it!
I have a similar collection with 100 patches for Model D. If you want it, please pm me.

https://patchstorage.com/basics-classics-sound-pack/

Thanks very much for the patches, both the Model 15 and the Model D patches are great!

For people who are reading this, would be great if you could go here and click the heart icon, then patchstorage would (hopefully) start the Model D page, as Fabio has suggested.

https://patchstorage.com/requests/moog-model-d/

MoogMusicInc

Just a quick update, we have a lead on something that might still be causing a performance problem for certain devices. We don't know yet what the exact cause is, but we can reliably reproduce the performance regression. This is the top priority of our app team and we'll post another update as soon as we have more information.

Thanks for the help, testing and patience!

your friends at Moog

FPC

Wow. Gotta say this is impressive. I could understand this level of service for an expensive hardware synth (mmmmm god I want one - all black Grandmother please!) but for a cheap (and sometimes free) app this is encouraging.

Pierre118

@MoogMusicInc said:
Just a quick update, we have a lead on something that might still be causing a performance problem for certain devices. We don't know yet what the exact cause is, but we can reliably reproduce the performance regression. This is the top priority of our app team and we post another update as soon as we have more information.

Thanks for the help, testing and patience!

your friends at Moog

Good work! Hopefully you can solve the problem

AudioGus

@FPC said:
Wow. Gotta say this is impressive. I could understand this level of service for an expensive hardware synth (mmmmm god I want one - all black Grandmother please!) but for a cheap (and sometimes free) app this is encouraging.

Agreed. Moog, please make a DAW.

Spud

@MoogMusicInc said:
Just a quick update, we have a lead on something that might still be causing a performance problem for certain devices. We don't know yet what the exact cause is, but we can reliably reproduce the performance regression. This is the top priority of our app team and we'll post another update as soon as we have more information.

Thanks for the help, testing and patience!

your friends at Moog

Thanks for sticking at it - we appreciate it :-)

Bon_Tempi

@MoogMusicInc said:
Just a quick update, we have a lead on something that might still be causing a performance problem for certain devices. We don't know yet what the exact cause is, but we can reliably reproduce the performance regression. This is the top priority of our app team and we'll post another update as soon as we have more information.

Thanks for the help, testing and patience!

your friends at Moog

Thanks - great to hear - fingers crossed for the search!

FRibeiro

@circledsquare said:

@FRibeiro said:
I just love all the Moog apps! Hoping for a definitive fix soon.

For those in need of some patches, I have this free collection of 100 patches for the Model 15.
Classic sounds, famous patches, and lots of patches for learning purposes (with description).
Hope you like it!
I have a similar collection with 100 patches for Model D. If you want it, please pm me.

https://patchstorage.com/basics-classics-sound-pack/

Thanks very much for the patches, both the Model 15 and the Model D patches are great!

For people who are reading this, would be great if you could go here and click the heart icon, then patchstorage would (hopefully) start the Model D page, as Fabio has suggested.

https://patchstorage.com/requests/moog-model-d/

Thank you! Yes, please, let's try to make Patchstorage create a Model D platform on the site!

MoogMusicInc

Just to keep you all in the loop, we were able to work around the performance regression that we managed to reproduce and have submitted new TestFlight builds to Apple for Model 15 and Minimoog Model D.

When they become available, we'll post a public link on this thread again.

your friends at Moog

MoogMusicInc

Here are the external TestFlight versions:

Minimoog Model D v1.3.4 build 128:
https://testflight.apple.com/join/8oJrJ9ha

Model 15 v2.2.7 build 271:
https://testflight.apple.com/join/1hfc44jm

Please verify that you have the correct version and build in the about dialogs of the apps and let us know if it solves your performance problems.

Thanks so much for your help!

your friends at Moog

@Bon_Tempi @Pierre118 @yaosichen @DMfan @AudioGus @VoytecG @OnfraySin

NeonSilicon

@MoogMusicInc said:
Just to keep you all in the loop, we were able to work around the performance regression that we managed to reproduce and have submitted new TestFlight builds to Apple for Model 15 and Minimoog Model D.

When they become available, we'll post a public link on this thread again.

your friends at Moog

I've only had time for a quick test now, I'll do more later, but it looks like the TestFlight install has fixed the issues for me.

I'm on a first gen 9.7" iPad Pro on the latest beta of iOS 14. I tested standalone and in AUM at 48kHz and 256 buffer. Performance is really very good. No problems at all even when manipulating the UI.

NeuM

Excellent progress being made.

Philandering_Bastard

@Bon_Tempi said:

@AudioGus said:

@Bon_Tempi said:

@MoogMusicInc said:

@drewinnit said:
I've luckily still not updated my Model D from the old version, before it became unstable...is it safe to update it now or are there still issues?

As far as we know there are no issues anymore and it's safe to update.

your friends at Moog

I got that impression from your last post that you think the problem is solved ... but I can’t confirm this for my case for example - and I also had the impression other users still report less performance stability compared to the situation “before” the update -

Hate to say it but I get a ‘yah we’re done’ corporate messaging vibe. They probably made changes to benefit the majority of users moving forward on more recent and future devices but for those on ‘older’ devices (four years or more, or maybe base models?) they tried their best, but sucks to be us. Welcome to the future?

Would be very sad if this would be the final result of this AUV3-CPU-Optimization-Update ...

@MoogMusicInc Is it?

And if its the final outcome ... that older devices not only do not benefit from this so called optimization but get a “downgrade” performance-wise instead - then this should have been communicated beforehand at least - so that a user of a such a device could have a made a conscious decision about updating or not ... at least ...

But lets not give hope here - maybe it can still get sorted out by Moog - I deeply hope so ,,,

Here is a video of the problem which I am facing with the update of Model -

IPad Pro 2017 12,9 - IOS 13.7
AUMSession - buffer: 1024
ModelD - Version 1.3.3.

Two instances of Model D running smoothly around DSP 30-45% with both AUV3-windows closed - as soon as I open the UI - I get spikes up to 110/120% and instant crackles

Video:

https://streamable.com/gzjc22

The interesting thing is - sometimes these UI-related crackles even happen at a DSP of around 80-90% (not in the video here - but maybe of interest for trouble shooting) - never experienced this with any other app ever.

@MoogMusicInc said:
Here are the external TestFlight versions:

Minimoog Model D v1.3.4 build 128:
https://testflight.apple.com/join/8oJrJ9ha

Model 15 v2.2.7 build 271:
https://testflight.apple.com/join/1hfc44jm

Please verify that you have the correct version and build in the about dialogs of the apps and let us know if it solves your performance problems.

Thanks so much for your help!

your friends at Moog

@Bon_Tempi @Pierre118 @yaosichen @DMfan @AudioGus @VoytecG @OnfraySin

Tested with 3 (three) instances of Model D and 15. Air 2 iOS 13.7 buffer 1024

Unusable before the update (crackles, audio drop-out), usable afterwards.

Good job.

MoogMusicInc

Thanks for those initial tests, really glad that you're seeing the same performance behavior as us!

Paulo164

My results on Model D (iPhone XS) :

• v 1.3.3 build 126 : 1 instance = 34% // 2 instances = 47%
• v 1.3.4 build 128 : 1 instance = 26% // 2 instances = 40%

So, much better.
Good job @MoogMusicInc 👍

By the way, your apps are truly incredible. They give me the impression to be the proud owner of a real piece of hardware 🙏

AudioGus

Sweet! Using the same NS2 project with 3 instances on 2017 base iPad.

1.3.1 around 85% CPU with no crackles

1.3.3 hit 100% and completely crackles.

1.3.4 now just under 80% with no crackles

Much thanks @MoogMusicInc !

DavidEnglish

Looking very good here. It's now better than with the baseline 1.3.1.

2017 12.9-inch iPad Pro
with iPadOS 14.4.2

Version 1.3.1 -- Five instances of Model D in AUM - 63% DSP (when idle)
Version 1.3.2 -- Five instances of Model D in AUM - 73% DSP (when idle)
Version 1.3.3 -- Five instances of Model D in AUM - 65% DSP (when idle)
Version 1.3.4 -- Five instances of Model D in AUM - 59% DSP (when idle)