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I despise iOS file management
I know it's been discussed in various ways before, but I can't help but vent a bit. I love my iPad and all the options that it provides for me, but the file management system is so bad that it turns me off on a regular basis to working with various apps.
The fact that I need to import my samples into each individual app, which then uses it's own file/folder structure for managing samples in app, is a huge hassle and a waste of time. It totally throws off my flow. I'm a super (ok, slightly neurotic) organized person when it comes to my files and folders, so having, for example, different folder layouts in Patterning 2 vs. Drambo throws me off and creates headaches and frustration. Not to mention the fact that if I use a sample in one app, then change it in another, I have to copy the new version into the old app instead of it automatically picking up on the changes. Then, of course, there are the 8 million different ways that apps make you upload those samples! Zip files, folders, individual, some can see files in Audioshare, some can only see them in the Files app, I mean, COME ON!
The list of apps that I need to import and set up new file/folder structures in is ridiculous. Just a few off the top of my head that I can think of are:
BM2
NS2
Samplr
Borderlands
Drambo
Patterning 2
Beathawk
The fact hat this has not been fixed in iOS drives me absolutely bonkers. Maybe it's just me, but why haven't we gotten our torches and pitchforks yet on this one?
Comments
@slicetwo Ask app developers to update their apps. Shared file/directory access, with a unified interface, with robust and durable synchronization, has been available for quite a while now (since iOS 13 if I remember correctly).
It's ridiculously simple for apps to 'ask users for a directory' and use all of the samples or relevant files in that directory. And, I know this is a hot take among some, but Apple has documented everything extraordinarily well, often with example projects.
Seriously? It's actually possible? The fact that I had no idea shows how much developers have actually put this into play. What the flarking flark is taking developers so long!?!!?
I dont have any samples. Factory reset ipad. So Id just use Drambo to sample. Hassle free unless theres a new good app. Just delete your samples + apps. Alternate advice.
edit ( apologies for the apathy ) but the alternate advice is lol.
Thanks Victor, that’s good to know. I also blamed Apple for the mess, now I know better. Which synchronization are you referring to? If it’s a work dir why should an app sync? What happens to the data created in such shared dir on uninstall? Do you think it would make sense if audio apps would use a user defined project dir?
I have heard that there are differences between how apps and AUs access files. It sounded like standalone apps could have external user folders but that AUs could not?
The whole apps are file silos thing is long obsolete, as far as developers are concerned. Apps can give access to their internal directories/files, and also access user-created directories/files anywhere else, 'on my iPad' and in iCloud Drive, as long as the user gives permission first. It's a basic path picker: app says "where do you store your samples?", user says "here", and the app remembers that directory path.
An app can query the contents of these directory paths, write into them, create/change/overwrite individual files, and also find out whether or not the contents in some directory or individual file have changed. This is all possible as long as that directory is built with permissions that allow access from any app – which as far as I know is always the case with everything you see in the Files app. What does this mean? Well, if you create a folder yourself manually, "on my iPad", or on iCloud Drive, it'll have these permissions. Or, if an app creates this folder and allows shared access (which is literally just flipping a switch that takes developers 5 seconds to do).
In addition, I'm almost certain (but not sure) that there's also ways of dealing with exclusive access and versioning if needed, especially when working with ubiquitous items (e.g. in iCloud Drive).
Everything I mentioned above is standardized and will work/look the same in every app that uses Apple's APIs.
I'm not sure I understand the question. But if you're asking 'why would an app want to write/overwrite', I can imagine doing things like e.g. reversing or trimming a sample and saving.
If it's a user-created directory 'on my iPad' (where you'd put all of your samples, using the Files app in the first place, right?), or a folder on iCloud – nothing happens: these files are not deleted along with the app. Similarly, if an app writes into those directories, the files won't be deleted either when the app is deleted.
Obviously.
There's nothing magical about this stuff. It's just folders. They work like on desktop. Apps can use a file/directory picker to find out where the user wants to store stuff; they can read things from that folder without copying stuff over; they can write stuff into that folder if needed. Apps can query the latest contents of those directories when needed.
That's not strictly true. Atom has a folder both 'on my iPad' and in iCloud Drive. The only prerequisite is that an AU needs a user-prompted reason to do it (e.g. "export MIDI", which opens a save dialog, which preemptively creates the directory 'on my iPad').
Atom decided to go with iCloud Drive instead of 'on my iPad' because prompting users for 'where do you want to store your controller scripts' the first time when opening the AU, or requiring users to first open the standalone app beforehand, felt like bad UX.
So would an AU Sampler with a custom user folder for samples stored in the root of ‘files app’ (outside of the apps storage) be possible?
Yes.
Huh, so multiple AUs and apps could all use the same sample library.
@samu you hearing this?
@blueveek, I think the word synchronization gave me a wrong idea. Please ignore this question. It‘s all just about working directories. So basically the whole sandbox mantra is gone since iPadOS 13 but many apps still follow the old way, right? So would you say that if an app allows loading a file instead of importing it beforehand, it means that it does not make a copy but is rather working with original file?
I think I‘ll try to create my own project dir for my tracks with the files app as you proposed and try to use it as much as possible and see how far I get.
Yes, but the ’linked’ files can be slower to reference than ‘local’ files and many developers can not implement cutting edge features since users refuse to keep their devices up to date...
I’m happy with apps that use document picker and share-sheet and keep the files visible in Filrs.app
AUv3’s can currently NOT access local files and iCloud is needed.
Personally I keep the files created in the creating apps folder and use document picker to fetch them when needed.
I don’t have the need to hoard gigs of samples on my devices, I fetch from my NAS or Mac when needed.
Files.app works fine for me...
Interesting...
@blueveek ?
AUM can already link/reference any file seen in Files.app without need to ‘import’.
If Apple allows local access to files from AUv3 in iPadOS 15 things could start cooking.
Sure horses for courses etc etc; mainly curiously about the technical hard limits. One producers messy 'hoard' is another's vital toolkit.
I feel your pain on this one.
I've already answered.
So iCloud is or isn't needed? Is @samu correct?
I am not being a shit disturber and am just dense / unable to read vague stuff.
Keep all files in the app you use the most and fetch from there from the other apps when needed,
I keep most of my samples in BM3 and fetch from there using the document picker be it an AUv3 or another host.
All ‘linked’ file outside the app container need a security handshake every time they are accessed slowing things down. At least that was the case in iOS13...
This folder isn't created by Atom in standalone.
Atom can read stuff from there (or any other folder 'on my iPad') just fine.
Even in ‘older’ iOS versions?
Yes, I do get the concept. An ideal workflow for me would be to use NS2/Cubasis/BM3 all accessing the exact same library though. Sounds like if they allowed it then it would be possible.
I actually prefer to make a copy of the samples I load into projects, call it ‘tracker habit’ in case I screw up the editing it won’t mess up all the other stuff where the same source sample was used...
The dev can "version" the access to these things and support older devices while providing the new things to newer devices. I just did a similar thing for preset export on iOS versus macOS where the iOS version brings up the share sheet and on the Mac it opens the file picker.
Some of the issues come from devs using cross platform libraries. These can take a long time to catch up to new things if they ever do.
I haven't read through the thread yet... BUT yes iOS files management absolutely sucks.
I'm still relatively new to iOS but compared to Windows or Android it's just appalling. The problems I've had getting samples into Cubasis make want to weep. And just look what happens every time someone posts on here that they're giving away some synth presets...
My takeaway from the thread is that 'iOS' file management is now actually potentially good under the hood, or at least better or different than most people realize and that it is the way individual devs choose to implement file management that is perhaps more the issue. It also seems that this is exacerbated by a legacy of previous hard limits which are apparently no longer relevant. Support for older OSes may also be a complication.
As for me and my subjective annoyances... could I just get a bloody time estimate in Files App when moving / copying files? Pretty sure I had this like thirty years ago. But hey it could be all heat throttling Tim Apple 'make it thinner' voodoo that is at play there too.
No. You can't have that. Apple is notorious for how bad their time estimates are even on the Mac. (It is actually a hard problem and much more difficult than it seems it should be.)
This friggin drives me crazy 🤬
They seriously need to add the size of Folders in the “info tab” too. There’s so many of these basic housekeeping things missing in Files that have existed in Finder since day one.
huh. Haven't used a Mac in decades. Gotta say that Teracopy and iMazing on windows are great at it.
Wow. Glad this blew up. So here's a few things I'm gathering (but I could be wrong) based on this convo and others I've seen around the forum.
One other thing I don't get that I see mentioned here is iCloud. I don't use iCloud since it's only 5GB and I only use an iPad, all my other devices are Windows/Android, so I use Google Drive. How is iCloud useful if you don't pay for the extra space? @blueveek - for Atom, for example, if I don't actually rock iCloud, does that mean I can't save things?