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Comments
yah that is crazy. it could be related to the whole 'if you copy a file does it actually duplicate it or just make a new reference to it?' efficiency thingy that some people claim is happening when you 'duplicate' files. le sigh...
Certainly for mere mortals. For brilliant devs it seems fine.
I'm mostly joking. But Apple is kinda known for how bad their time estimates are for things. Just their time estimates for how long upgrades are going to take crack me up every time.
But, it is actually harder to do now in a general setting than it used to be. There are multiple things competing for the resources in questions, network access and lag, how fast the disk is, etc. The problem has gotten much harder over time when you are trying to do it for a broad use case.
Yeah, I think a 'remaining files' would be nice but...
...the only thing those 'timers' were accurate at was to tell us how many hours/minutes/seconds it would take from the moment you look at them as they could get stuck at 'xxx time remaining' for hours...
It takes a LOT longer to copy a folder of gazzillion small files than one zip archive even if they have exactly the same size
We'll get there eventually and that's one of the reasons I'll be glued to the WWDC'21 sessions.
I mean it took years before apps started to get the standard Document Picker & Share Sheet from the time they were introduced, same with 'Documents Folders' visible to Files.app...
So my take on it is that even if iPadOS15 would introduce some revolutionary stuff the adoption would take long time since the 'adoption rate' of new iOS versions is quite slow...
(Some users are still running iOS11 on a devices capable of running iPadOS14 and and complain about missing features...).
Cheers!
hehe, and I am sure 5G will scare a lot away too.
In developers' defense, most of them have developed their apps years ago when such a programming interface was not available, thus having invested dozens of hours into developing their own file managers (!), and most of them are probably pissed at the thought of throwing all that work away
(just to give you a disgruntled developer's perspective).
Apart from that, for developers developing apps for multiple platforms (iOS, Android, ...), the work on their own file managers is largely cross-platform, while work on including iOS-specific file management features is fruitless for their other platforms.
(I do agree though that in general, apps using the native system file selectors / management is a good thing. But in my opinion, the fault is on Apple for not providing such APIs right from the start.)
(also, as others have pointed out already, Apple's own file management features, including the "Files" app, are incredibly cumbersome and buggy and that probably adds to the frustration for developers too
)
I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment.
I'll add though that my own perspective is that it's never useful to for a developer to fall in love with their creation. Nothing gives me more pleasure than deleting my code
And we often joke (and you know this), that the best kind of contributions are the ones with more deletions than additions. The less code there is, the fewer opportunities there are to mess things up.
(note: that's not an endorsement for using/abusing third party libraries; just making use of your operating system's, or stdlib's functionality)
That might have been true at some point, but it's pretty far from the truth these days (in my experience, though I'm happy to be schooled about edge-cases).
Damn right, I've totally forgotten that 5G causes COVID.
@SevenSystems, that's some remains from the golden age of the golden cage when everything was running in a sandbox. It's slowly maturing into a computer and that's good. Don't you think devs could update their custom filepicker dialogs to the new capabilities?
Of course they could, and I agreed that that's the desirable end result. It just has to fight over priorities for other development...
Hrmmm. I might be an outlier (like with so many things in life), and I already know I'm the perfect beta tester, but... without exaggeration, I don't even bother using the Files app anymore. Most of my devices are jailbroken, thus they're all running sshd and I've mounted them as regular sshfs shares on my computers (and between each other) so I don't have to deal with this mess anymore.
But I do "fondly" remember that anytime I tried doing something remotely (pun alert) "advanced" (copying files from/to SMB shares, copying large amounts of files, copying large files, ...), the Files app crapped out in so many different ways you could write a book about it.
Also, the user experience is just terrible. Everything is slowed down with extremely tiring animations. There is no reliable feedback on the progress of operations. Copying a few dozens of GB of files over the network? Well just leave the iPad lying around overnight because as far as I remember, it's completely unpredictable how long it'll take.
I'm encountering such issues with iOS in general daily (not just file management). But I must admit, I'm an extreme perfectionist and "power user" and most operating systems are probably not meant to be used that way. That's why I use a heavily customized Linux with KDE/Plasma for my desktops. It's the only system that can cope with my demands
(not saying this is "better". It's just the way I like to work. More work efficiency = less time spent at the computer screen = more time moping around with fun stuff
)
@SevenSystems I was merely referring to the Files APIs available to us developers. The Files app itself is in pretty bad shape and definitely needs a lot more love from a lot more productivity-oriented folks.
Oops, alright, misread that then.
No, I definitely didn't word that clearly enough. Anyway, DM me if you're ever down to have a chat about these APIs, I'm always happy to learn some more about 'em.
(I seem to be coming from a perspective of much greater optimism about these APIs and their documentation than others, so it's always possible I'm missing something)
Interesting that from what you say it is the Files app that causes the problem rather than the underlying filesystem. That would not surprise me as I would expect Apple to be reusing their FS code from MacOS. Do you find it as reliable and performant as Mac/Linux when you are using the jailbroken filesystem directly rather than via Files?
I think it comes from both. The Files app itself is badly designed, which makes for a lackluster user experience. Some of the underlying APIs, especially those dealing with network shares, are undoubtedly buggy. Now that you mention macOS, I don't think iOS and macOS share exactly the same SMB implementation, because as you say, macOS' is significantly more stable. But it's definitely not as stable as Windows' or Linux', in my experience.
EDIT: on your question about the jailbroken filesystem: That doesn't use SMB, it's a completely different protocol. And yes, it's relatively stable, as it isn't included with iOS at all, but gets installed via a 3rd party (Cydia) App Store.
(I like to call macOS "Linux, but with all its advantages removed"
)
Hey sure, optimism is good. You probably have a more optimistic perspective than me in general. That's because my general perspective on lots of things is a bit skewed recently, but I'm trying to fix that
Surely Apple did not write a new file system for iOS from scratch. They also didn‘t a new kernel from scratch. So I quickly googled it. It is HFSX which is an extended HFS+.
OMG, it doesn‘t support concurrent access. Really. In the sense that only one process at the time can use the FS. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HFS_Plus
And then this from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_File_System:
I think everything uses APFS now, including AppleTV and the watch. It is a very good and complete file system.
If this is true. How come no apps implement it?
Drambo, AudioLayer, Zenbeats... you name it. They all have their “sandbox” that forces you to copy the same files over and over if wanting to use them on different apps.
I can’t think of a single sample based app that lets you work from a folder outside their set scope. It’s obviously samples that are the biggest headache here.
If this shared space/directory concept is actually possible. Would it apply to external storage?. Why not?. Here we are talking about 2tb iPads but I can’t have my samples on a external drive.
Reading @blueveek ’s comments I’m confused. Are all devs just doing it wrong?, all of them?.
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@blueveek This is how some other developers give the user the choice where to store their data, and I like it:
Never mind, needless post by me.
What file management system?