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Off-Topic discussion about Bitcoin and cryptocurrency.
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No! I have not said that! I said something can be an effective investment and have significant short and medium term swings of value. Yes it can also be a currency and a place to store wealth at the same time. A good currency? No. A good investment? If you successfully predict the movements. A good place to store wealth? I'm not so sure. I don't think I'd use crypto as as a place to store wealth myself.
That's my last attempt to explain what I meant.
LMAO this is hilarious ... Furniture store company"ETHAN ALLEN INTERIOR " experienced growt in stock price.
They have ticker ETH. Lot of people are messed it with Erhereum and are buying ir, thinking they're buyinh cryptocurrency 😂🤣
What a fortuitous stock symbol for them.
😂😂😂
Why is that hilarious? Because the ticker symbols are so close?
Could I make the same connection between the hysteria and emotionalism of crypto fans? Is it possible they’re actually BTS fans who got confused and bought BTC? It would definitely explain why they come after anyone who dares criticize the cult!
That people can be that dumb is what is hilarious.
Yeah – we’re talking about cryptocurrency. I get it.
On the other hand, people have been using furniture (particularly mattresses) as a store of wealth for centuries.
LOL.
It’s because so many people haven’t done their research. You know, like everything.
I'm beginning to like this thread. I know nothing about crypto, and have no idea whether the pro and con comments presented here are representative to the argument in general, but if you read them I bet it will definitely help make up your mind about which side is closer to you.
I most definitely do not. But I’m smart enough to know when I don’t know something.
It sounds like we actually agree then. I’m saying it can’t both be a currency and an investment at the same time. It’s either one or the other.
You are saying you agree it’s not a currency and you see it as an investment, so your position is consistent: it’s an investment and not a currency.
And it’s clearly not a currency, no-one really buys anything with Bitcoin, at least not since Silk Road was shut down. Almost everyone buys Bitcoin as a speculative asset, not as a currency to spend.
We still don't understand each other fully but would be silly to drag out any further. 👍🏼✌🏼
“Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know...”
I think crypto falls short of fulfilling the utility required of a transactional currency. I think a good test for identifying what works well as a transactional currency, is to make an assessment of the suitability for a given "currency" for forming and satisfying contractional agreements.
It may be difficult to enforce a contract if an element representing value in the exchange is by nature in a state of wild fluctuation. A court might view an inability to construct a balanced transaction as a failure to achieve a meeting on the minds. If the parties create terms such as.. "Payment to be made in crypto equal to $900US @ current exchange rate". That sounds to me that the contract is actually valued in US dollars and not in crypto.
Perhaps a clue for defining what crypto currently represents can be assessed by how it's currently valued?
Another aspect I think about is ability to maintain a stable economic system of trade. I think a currency backed by government regulated economic policy may be more widely trusted as a currency for trade. The measure of value for a government regulated currency can then be based on a trust that the monetary system is subject to a proactive measure of protection.
An apparent discrepancy between a government regulated currency and crypto might be found in crypto's lack of protection...
A government that is ultimately supported by taxation might essentially be viewed as a government existing by virtue of the citizens who pay taxes to support the government. The value of that nations currency might then be thought to be linked to the level of prosperity and stability fundamentally inherent to the society. That might mean the value and stability (trust) for a nations currency, could be viewed in terms of overall prosperity and historic stability of the society, and a trust in the likelihood that the stability will continue.
A government backed currency might then be understood to represent a value intrinsically derived from a measurement of the equity that can be represented by the entirety of the society itself. Using this criteria to interpret a source of attributable value might indicate that such currency would not fully measure as a "fiat currency". It may not be backed by gold, but to me it certainly seems to be backed by the value inherent to the society that pays the taxes that empower a government to regulate a currencies value?
I'm not aware if Crypto has any proactive regulatory body overseeing it..?
Yes, people who know me say that even though I’m probably left of Nelson Mandela, I often remind them of Donald Rumsfeld.
Ignore the term “cryptocurrency.” Since almost none of them are legally allowed to compete with a country’s native currency, the term is needlessly confusing.
However, it is reportedly true in some countries where the people are suffering under extreme monetary inflation they choose to use cryptos instead.
https://www.finder.com/global-cryptocurrency-regulations
has nothing to do with cult... i can call cult people who are believening politicians, centrsl bankers and fiat currency. I'm not doing that, because calling people cult, just because they have diferrent opinion about subject and they are throwing at you arguments which are contradictory with your belief, speaks more about you than about them.
This is just about dumb people acting without educating themselves. Dumb people are everywhere, in crypto and in traditionalmarket too. Especially outside markets at all, in normie population. When those people are entering market based on reading some headline in some shitnewspaper, this is how it ends.
Yes, this happened in crypto too, lot of neewcomers were buying Ethereum Classic because it was cheap when compared to Ethereum. ETC is comllete useles dead coin which experienced miltiple 51% attacks in past due to low hashrate... Same happened with Bitcoin vs. his neaningless shitcoin forks Bitcoin Cash or Bitcoin SV.
People are investing without trying to understand and learn about subject of their investment. Not cult, just dumbness.
Very strictly speaking fiat currency is "backed" just by government promises to pay country depth - because fiat currency is basically liability of central bank. You can see it on fact, that if country stops to be capable to pay own depths and they rise rapidly, currency starts devalvate rapidly too.
Basically it means people who believe in fiat currency are believing politicians and central bankers. They believe, that those guys are having in their minds at first place good for all people and are always acting with clear intentions to help people.
Good luck with that belief 🤣
On other side, crypto price is "backed" by people agreement on it's price. Nothing more. There is no middlemen with debatable reputation to believe.There is nothing to "believe" at all. It's just technology written in stone, cryptography, math. It's pure agreement on value of some technology, proved by time as working. Yes, it is volatile for now, because amount of people is small and they have different competiting opinions about price. As market will grow and mature, this volatility will decrease and price will be naturally more and more stable (but still with long term uptrend of course, due to absolute scarcity, at least in case of Bitcoin)
Of course in case than goverment will not deform market by some sick regulations.
@richardyot it is not just crypro libertsrian lunatics who are talking about inflation
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/05/22/inflation-spike-would-hit-bonds-and-stocks-investor-charles-ellis.html
or Peter Shiff, big enemy of Bitcoin
https://schiffgold.com/peters-podcast/peter-schiff-the-fed-cant-tell-the-truth-about-inflation/
>
As i mentioned. Shitposts like this are speaking more about you than about people in cryotocurrencies.
Meh. That’s needlessly harsh IMO.
oh i should't probably use term "shitposts", it's commonly used term on CT and nobody gets offended, i keep forgeting other comunities are a bit more sensitive .. ok i'm accepting critique.
My post was shitpost too 😂
There is more to it than that. Countries with their own central banks can always pay their debts, so for example with the US, UK, Australia, Canada and Japan there is no risk of default because they issue their own currency. If they wanted to they could QE their entire national debt away. I'm not saying they should, but simply that they can.
For countries that don't issue their own currency there is a much greater risk. This applies to the entire Eurozone, and is the reason behind the Eurozone crisis ten years ago. Once the ECB stepped in to act as a lender of last resort the crisis was averted.
Greece, Spain, and Italy are all monetarily constrained by the Euro, and it hurts their economies enormously, especially as there are no fiscal transfers from the richer countries, unlike other federations such as the US and Australia where richer states subsidise poorer ones (taxes raised in New York can be spent in Alabama, but taxes raised in Germany are never spent in Greece).
Other countries, such as Argentina for example, peg to the dollar, and this also creates problems since they are not in control of their own currency.
As flawed as democracy is, it's the best system we've got. Replacing fiat with Bitcoin would just lead to oligarchy. A market-based monetary system with no public goods is completely dystopian, only the rich would benefit from that.
There is a reason that generations of people have fought for public goods: healthcare, education, a court system, a police force, the fire brigade, a road network, infrastructure etc... The alternative is basically a return to feudalism.
Elon Musk can deform the market with a single tweet, so I'm not sure I buy that argument
Yes, i admitted this multiple times. This is deformity, this market is still very young and needs to mature. It's great idea but it needs few more year to grow.
As i mentioned i'm in crypto because i believe in tech, i don't have (yet
)) life changing amount of money there. In have good job and the end, so i not gonna be ruined of this fails ...
But inbelieve it's last stand agains corrupted bad old financial system ruled by corrupted politicians and banksters.
it's is legitimate option that we fail this fight, but i'm sad if i try to imagine such world. But yes, It always can end as horible centralised dystopy ruled by bad people.
In every market that has ever existed you get a Pareto distribution, so I don’t think you can ever avoid the possibility of market manipulation since there are always going to be imbalances of power and influence.
Bitcoin is no different. A single whale can affect the price by selling large quantities of coins.
(Edit) this is actually an interesting topic which I might expand on later.
lol laughing hard
yes.. at market captalisation 20 or 50 trillion it will be lot less likely 🤣
but of course market ma ipulation on large scale is happening also on traditional markets, i'm not naive.. good example from history is when Soros put GBP on knees...
It's an aside, but you're talking about today's (pre-your-crypto-paradise) world as if it wasn't the best ever for the most people ever, despite all of its shortcomings, and with you firmly in the top 5% even within that, simply by your luck in the birthplace lottery.