Off-Topic discussion about Bitcoin and cryptocurrency.

Gavinski

A/Y

Carnbot

A/Y

richardyot

A/X

colonel_mustard

@u0421793 said:
I’m C/Y
(where C isn’t all that regularly, I might forget for weeks, then do several, who cares, but I’m calling it regularly overall)

Ah, the poor tax! Hope tickets. I get drawn in by EuroMillions every now and then. About once every five years or so. The prize structure's terrible. Jackpot's good, but you can get 6 out of 7 numbers and win less than €350.

B/Y

ervin

@u0421793 said:
I’d be interested in knowing if there’s any overlap in the following, between crypto for/against people, and doing lottery (there’s a handful of people on this thread, so that’s a big enough scientific sample):

A - never do the lottery
B - occasionally do it but not regularly
C - regularly do the lottery

X - I’m against crypto
Y - I’m for crypto

Genuine question: why only two options for crypto? In reality you don't have to be for it or against it. I would actually suggest that most people, regardless of what they think about the lottery, are crypto-neutral, as in they couldn't care less about it.

u0421793

@u0421793 said:
I’d be interested in knowing if there’s any overlap in the following, between crypto for/against people, and doing lottery (there’s a handful of people on this thread, so that’s a big enough scientific sample):

A - never do the lottery
B - occasionally do it but not regularly
C - regularly do the lottery

X - I’m against crypto
Y - I’m for crypto

[people posted their thing…]

that was interesting, thanks everyone. I think I can scientifically verify then that there’s no correlation

u0421793

@ervin said:

@u0421793 said:
I’d be interested in knowing if there’s any overlap in the following, between crypto for/against people, and doing lottery (there’s a handful of people on this thread, so that’s a big enough scientific sample):

A - never do the lottery
B - occasionally do it but not regularly
C - regularly do the lottery

X - I’m against crypto
Y - I’m for crypto

Genuine question: why only two options for crypto? In reality you don't have to be for it or against it. I would actually suggest that most people, regardless of what they think about the lottery, are crypto-neutral, as in they couldn't care less about it.

I thought it was a polarised area. I suppose there are also neutral people in the middle of that continuum like you say, and there’s also people who’ve never heard of it, which introduces another axis

ervin

@u0421793 said:

@ervin said:

@u0421793 said:
I’d be interested in knowing if there’s any overlap in the following, between crypto for/against people, and doing lottery (there’s a handful of people on this thread, so that’s a big enough scientific sample):

A - never do the lottery
B - occasionally do it but not regularly
C - regularly do the lottery

X - I’m against crypto
Y - I’m for crypto

Genuine question: why only two options for crypto? In reality you don't have to be for it or against it. I would actually suggest that most people, regardless of what they think about the lottery, are crypto-neutral, as in they couldn't care less about it.

I thought it was a polarised area. I suppose there are also neutral people in the middle of that continuum like you say, and there’s also people who’ve never heard of it, which introduces another axis

Fair. And I'm too late with this anyway, as your scientific experiment has now concluded.

u0421793

@ervin said:

@u0421793 said:

@ervin said:

@u0421793 said:
I’d be interested in knowing if there’s any overlap in the following, between crypto for/against people, and doing lottery (there’s a handful of people on this thread, so that’s a big enough scientific sample):

A - never do the lottery
B - occasionally do it but not regularly
C - regularly do the lottery

X - I’m against crypto
Y - I’m for crypto

Genuine question: why only two options for crypto? In reality you don't have to be for it or against it. I would actually suggest that most people, regardless of what they think about the lottery, are crypto-neutral, as in they couldn't care less about it.

I thought it was a polarised area. I suppose there are also neutral people in the middle of that continuum like you say, and there’s also people who’ve never heard of it, which introduces another axis

Fair. And I'm too late with this anyway, as your scientific experiment has now concluded.

Yeah, it’s a shortitudinal study

ervin

@u0421793 said:

@ervin said:

@u0421793 said:

@ervin said:

@u0421793 said:
I’d be interested in knowing if there’s any overlap in the following, between crypto for/against people, and doing lottery (there’s a handful of people on this thread, so that’s a big enough scientific sample):

A - never do the lottery
B - occasionally do it but not regularly
C - regularly do the lottery

X - I’m against crypto
Y - I’m for crypto

Genuine question: why only two options for crypto? In reality you don't have to be for it or against it. I would actually suggest that most people, regardless of what they think about the lottery, are crypto-neutral, as in they couldn't care less about it.

I thought it was a polarised area. I suppose there are also neutral people in the middle of that continuum like you say, and there’s also people who’ve never heard of it, which introduces another axis

Fair. And I'm too late with this anyway, as your scientific experiment has now concluded.

Yeah, it’s a shortitudinal study

👌

Although this exchange made me curious about the "I've never heard of crypto but I hate it" stratum of society.

colonel_mustard

If anybody's new to crypto wallets, then you might also be new to seed phrases. I've come to think of them as really big combination locks, where instead of having 3 or 4 dials with one of ten possible numbers at each position, there are 24 'dials' with one of 2048 possible words at each position.

There are massively more seed phrases than there are atoms in the world, apparently, so it's very unlikely that anybody's ever going to guess yours, or systematically hunt through them all.

Still, I do wonder if people have checked for active wallets that use just one of those BIP39 words over and over. "unlock unlock unlock unlock unlock unlock unlock unlock unlock unlock unlock unlock unlock unlock unlock unlock unlock unlock unlock unlock unlock unlock unlock unlock", for instance.

Anyway, I found this checklist during a recent dig, and I think it's probably worth repeating here, just as a general PSA:

---

Common causes of leaked seeds (unauthorized access).

Have you ever:

• used a seed that came pre-printed on a card with your ledger (the common pre-seeded ledger scam)

• taken a phone photo of your words? (this is the most common source of leakage)

• entered your words on your computer or phone (i.e. typed it on your keyboard), e.g. sending an email to yourself (second most common source of leakage)

• entered your seed in "Ledger Live" when you updated your computer, to recover from "damaged ledger memory" or to "unlock your ledger account"?

• entered your words it in a computer or phone notebook or notepad or any app or website, or on the cloud?

• have your words in sight of any webcam, laptop cam, phone cam, home security cam etc.

• printed or photocopied your words using a computer printer or wireless printer or a commercial copy machine?

• digitalized your words or encrypted them in anyway with a computer?

• used off-line or on-line tools to generate or check your seed or to verify it or to access other software or phone wallets?

https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/kmq68s/psa_learn_the_importance_of_your_24word_seed/

NeuM

@dendy said:

roads

i pad special tax as car owner. this should be covered.

schools

please, can i choose to not pay public schooling system and never use it ? :-) It's complete shit (like most of services provided by state) anyway :-)) I will never used it for my son Yes, unfortunately i went through it but i guess that was covered by taxes payed by my parents so i owe nothing for that.

Anyway public schooling is for me more like part of social service, so it should be funded from social insurance.

I also understand this is not possible because social insurance is mother of all bubble ponzi scheme scams people ever developed

Btw. this leads me to my most favourite part, in my country i had to pay 50 euros yearly as form of "tax" for public media (public state television). Even through i don't watch it at all, ever. But law is build the way that EVERY household with electricity has to pay it. Nice.

police and fire protection,

okay, there is some portion of rationality in this, good argument

But then. For what is needed income taxation ? What kind of state service should be payed from that, to have rational fair argument for this tax ?

Thing is - politicians are developing new and new forms of taxation just to make bag of money they took away from people bigger and bigger, without scare them with one big 80% tax.

So they split it in multiple tiny taxes, made from taxes made from takes. 4% there .. 10% there .. 12% there .. And most of herd is ok with that. They don't do math. They don't realise that state takes away vas majority of what they produce, but gives them back, in form of services, just tiny fraction of that value.

This whole system is extremely inefficient and lot of money is just wasted by running it. It's really sad and ironic that most loud critics of bitcoin mining "energy wasting" are people who are fully supporting this system which is wasting resources (money) at such large scale, that no other existing system can competite with it. Ironically, bitcoin mining is atually one of most efficient use of resources in human history, was majority of it is converted into usefull information benefitial for all participants. I wish state has at least 20% of that efficiency.

When those in government have unchecked power to tax and spend, they use it. Politicians/lawmakers are also self-interested individuals. Although they operate in the rarified air of “public service,” this is an illusion. Their interests always come first (which is the timeless truth of human nature) but they are given these magical powers over large groups of voters because they can make promises they cannot and will not keep for the voters who will always make unreasonable demands.

shinyisshiny

A/Y - never gamble, but have gambled on some shit coins and won. I now focus on BTC, ETH, and ADA, + some Algo, dot, and matic.

wim

A/Y

NeuM

@shinyisshiny said:
A/Y - never gamble, but have gambled on some shit coins and won. I now focus on BTC, ETH, and ADA, + some Algo, dot, and matic.

👍 I have a mix of 30+ cryptos, but plan to concentrate on more investing in BTC, ETH myself. Also find ATOM, MATIC and ALGO interesting.

(None of this is investing advice.)

dendy

A - never do the lottery
B - occasionally do it but not regularly
C - regularly do the lottery

X - I’m against crypto
Y - I’m for crypto

AY

dendy

@colonel_mustard

good tips on seed.. i would also suggest for any significantly big capital using of Model T from trezor.io

they have very cool seed backup system called "shamir backup"

it generates 5 series of words instead of just simple one. To restore your wallet you then need combination of at least 3 of them.

This is very safe because you can store each one of those 5 ( written on some metal plate for example), on geogeafically different places. Then if somebody steals one (or even two), he will be still not able to restore your waller and steal your money.

NeuM

@dendy said:
@colonel_mustard

good tips on seed.. i would also suggest for any significantly big capital using of Model T from trezor.io

they have very cool seed backup system called "shamir backup"

it generates 5 series of words instead of just simple one. To restore your wallet you then need combination of at least 3 of them.

This is very safe because you can store each one of those 5 ( written on some metal plate for example), on geogeafically different places. Then if somebody steals one (or even two), he will be still not able to restore your waller and steal your money.

If one has very large amounts of capital in crypto, also consider a safe for passwords and hard drives and the use of an air-gapped computer.

AudioGus

Z - I don't care because the singularity is coming and humanity is going to evolve into an amorphous nanotech gas cloud.

dendy

This.

dendy

@NeuM said:
If one has very large amounts of capital in crypto, also consider a safe for passwords and hard drives and the use of an air-gapped computer.

Don't think anybody here is crypto whale :-))) I would be suprised if here is more than 1-2 "wholecoiners" :-))

Anyway think all securiry is covered by hw wallet .. if you don't enter seed anywhere except of wallet itself during backup restore, and you confirm every transaction throug wallet hardware.

Trezor even provides all their firmware as opensource (so ecerybod can check it for possible backdoors) and they are working on CUSTOM fully auditable opensource chip for their devices, which is amazing. Maximum transparency, maximu security. They really got Satoshi's idea of trustless network.

Btw. sometimes friends are asking me how much they had to have to buy HW wallet. My rule of thumb is - if your crypto is worth more than 2-4x price of hw wallet, then you should

• try somehow anonymize you holdings by passimg them through some non-kyc exchange (just for case if in future some insane totality happens and they will tax even holdings)
• buy wallet, send it there. in 10-20 years it may be serious wealth
• backup you seed physically somewhere (printed on some steel plate, ideally shamir backup immentioned)
• destroy wallet, rember just few incoming addresses so you can continue with sending funds there

thas's it :-)

espiegel123

@dendy said:
This.

Chomsky is proposing this in the context of describing a system he described as "libertarian socialism" and "anarcho-syndicalism" and views many Marxist traditions and thinkers in a positive light.

colonel_mustard

@espiegel123 said:

@dendy said:
This.

Chomsky is proposing this in the context of describing a system he described as "libertarian socialism" and "anarcho-syndicalism" and views many Marxist traditions and thinkers in a positive light.

It was an anarcho-syndicalist commune in the Monty Python video

NeuM

@espiegel123 said:

@dendy said:
This.

Chomsky is proposing this in the context of describing a system he described as "libertarian socialism" and "anarcho-syndicalism" and views many Marxist traditions and thinkers in a positive light.

He’s an interesting person, however socialism is not complimentary to libertarianism. They are opposing philosophies. Socialism and anarcho-syndicalism require non-human behavior to function. They are an intellectual exercise, like Marxism, which fails in reality. I recommend more Rothbard and Mises and less Chomsky.

NeuM

@dendy said:

@NeuM said:
If one has very large amounts of capital in crypto, also consider a safe for passwords and hard drives and the use of an air-gapped computer.

Don't think anybody here is crypto whale :-))) I would be suprised if here is more than 1-2 "wholecoiners" :-))

Anyway think all securiry is covered by hw wallet .. if you don't enter seed anywhere except of wallet itself during backup restore, and you confirm every transaction throug wallet hardware.

Trezor even provides all their firmware as opensource (so ecerybod can check it for possible backdoors) and they are working on CUSTOM fully auditable opensource chip for their devices, which is amazing. Maximum transparency, maximu security. They really got Satoshi's idea of trustless network.

Btw. sometimes friends are asking me how much they had to have to buy HW wallet. My rule of thumb is - if your crypto is worth more than 2-4x price of hw wallet, then you should

• try somehow anonymize you holdings by passimg them through some non-kyc exchange (just for case if in future some insane totality happens and they will tax even holdings)
• buy wallet, send it there. in 10-20 years it may be serious wealth
• backup you seed physically somewhere (printed on some steel plate, ideally shamir backup immentioned)
• destroy wallet, rember just few incoming addresses so you can continue with sending funds there

thas's it :-)

One of my siblings bought one Bitcoin years ago for something like $500 or $600. I thought it was too expensive at the time. LOL.

AudioGus

@NeuM said:

@dendy said:

@NeuM said:
If one has very large amounts of capital in crypto, also consider a safe for passwords and hard drives and the use of an air-gapped computer.

Don't think anybody here is crypto whale :-))) I would be suprised if here is more than 1-2 "wholecoiners" :-))

Anyway think all securiry is covered by hw wallet .. if you don't enter seed anywhere except of wallet itself during backup restore, and you confirm every transaction throug wallet hardware.

Trezor even provides all their firmware as opensource (so ecerybod can check it for possible backdoors) and they are working on CUSTOM fully auditable opensource chip for their devices, which is amazing. Maximum transparency, maximu security. They really got Satoshi's idea of trustless network.

Btw. sometimes friends are asking me how much they had to have to buy HW wallet. My rule of thumb is - if your crypto is worth more than 2-4x price of hw wallet, then you should

• try somehow anonymize you holdings by passimg them through some non-kyc exchange (just for case if in future some insane totality happens and they will tax even holdings)
• buy wallet, send it there. in 10-20 years it may be serious wealth
• backup you seed physically somewhere (printed on some steel plate, ideally shamir backup immentioned)
• destroy wallet, rember just few incoming addresses so you can continue with sending funds there

thas's it :-)

One of my siblings bought one Bitcoin years ago for something like $500 or $600. I thought it was too expensive at the time. LOL.

I had a co-worker at the time insist I get in on it. Well, off to the liquor store.

dendy

it reminds me something... 🤪

wim

I was involved in the very early days of private digital voice transmission. We didn't call it "Voice over IP" then because the protocol didn't use IP addresses. We had equipment at either end of an international leased data line that could encode and deliver voice packets along with the other data traffic. It was strictly illegal to bridge such a system to any phone that could access an outside line in the European countries we were dealing with, for that very reason ... preservation of the country's government monopoly controlled telephone network.

It was vaguely illegal in the US as well but we never faced any enforcement of it.

Disruptive technologies almost always face opposition from those who rely on the technology being replaced for profit, or simply for control, or simply for fear of change.

I would be tempted to write off the stronger crypto critics as falling into one of these categories were it not for the quality of the discourse and people's willingness, for the most part, to explain their reasoning. Most of it is really good food for thought.

Good technology always wins out eventually IMO. Sometimes it takes time to evolve into good technology for sure though.

NeuM

@AudioGus said:

@NeuM said:

@dendy said:

@NeuM said:
If one has very large amounts of capital in crypto, also consider a safe for passwords and hard drives and the use of an air-gapped computer.

Don't think anybody here is crypto whale :-))) I would be suprised if here is more than 1-2 "wholecoiners" :-))

Anyway think all securiry is covered by hw wallet .. if you don't enter seed anywhere except of wallet itself during backup restore, and you confirm every transaction throug wallet hardware.

Trezor even provides all their firmware as opensource (so ecerybod can check it for possible backdoors) and they are working on CUSTOM fully auditable opensource chip for their devices, which is amazing. Maximum transparency, maximu security. They really got Satoshi's idea of trustless network.

Btw. sometimes friends are asking me how much they had to have to buy HW wallet. My rule of thumb is - if your crypto is worth more than 2-4x price of hw wallet, then you should

• try somehow anonymize you holdings by passimg them through some non-kyc exchange (just for case if in future some insane totality happens and they will tax even holdings)
• buy wallet, send it there. in 10-20 years it may be serious wealth
• backup you seed physically somewhere (printed on some steel plate, ideally shamir backup immentioned)
• destroy wallet, rember just few incoming addresses so you can continue with sending funds there

thas's it :-)

One of my siblings bought one Bitcoin years ago for something like $500 or $600. I thought it was too expensive at the time. LOL.

I had a co-worker at the time insist I get in on it. Well, off to the liquor store.

Haha. Imagine being the pizza store owner who agreed to give up a pizza in exchange for 10,000 of those “worthless” Bitcoins.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/bitcoin-pizza-day-laszlo-hanyecz-spent-38-billion-on-pizzas-in-the-summer-of-2010-using-the-novel-crypto/ar-AAKhcmx

dendy

@NeuM said:

He’s an interesting person, however socialism is not complimentary to libertarianism. They are opposing philosophies. Socialism and anarcho-syndicalism require non-human behavior to function. They are an intellectual exercise, like Marxism, which fails in reality. I recommend more Rothbard and Mises and less Chomsky.

i just found that quote and found it interesting.. but maybe i didn't understand it properly due to my poor english :-)) I even had no idea who is guy on that photo lol.