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Off-Topic discussion about Bitcoin and cryptocurrency.
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Ok, and now let's go from Tether FUD to enviromental impact nonsense :-D And then we can go to bitcoin used for illegal operations, financing child porn and terrorism
Richard really, it starts to be boring. I threw on you a tons of arguments, i spend, with good intention, half of hour writing super long post in other thread where i explained to you how tether works, how is used on exchanges and why is that "doomsday" article bullshit.
All your reactions, on things i wrote, was "ok, let's not discuss this anymore".
Now you reopened it again, nothing new, just reposting again and again same links. Still repeating missinformations based on one article written by guy who has very twisted and incorrect knowledge about how this works.
This is really wasting of time.
But I don't think you've actually explained anything 🤷♀️
I've shown you proof that has been established in a court of law that:
And because Tether is used for a substantial share of all crypto transactions this has the potential to blow up in very unpleasant ways.
Show me where you have addressed any of these points?
The real danger is that Tether has been pumping the Bitcoin price with unbacked coins, in which case a lot of people are going to lose a lot of money. How likely is this? Well considering how many lies they have told it seems to be a very real danger.
I have more stuff to follow up with tomorrow.
Ok, post here any thinkable nonsense you want. I don't have time nor will to fight with this cause it is never ends. One of your "strong" arguments against USDT was it is not listed on US regulated exchanges. Now it's on Coinbase.
Be my guest, fill this thread with your nonsenses, misinterpretation and overexagerrations... At the end it's your thread, you have right to fill it with any content you wsnt, even throug it is ignoring numbers facts and reality.
i'm out if this game.
ma last note for this bullshit hoax nonsense is here, for anybody who is interested in facts, nicely debunked point by point
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/markets/debunking-misconceptions-from-the-bit-short-inside-cryptos-doomsday-machine
But I'm not posting nonsense, I'm posting verifiable facts from the New York Attorney General. It's anything but nonsense
I do concede that Coinbase accepting Tether is weird, really weird, especially only one month after it's found that Tether lied about their reserves.
I can't prove that Tether is a fraud, but the warning signs are there, in large flashing letters.
Also, isn’t this motto of the Bitcoin community:
Don’t trust, verify
If so, why shouldn’t it apply to Tether?
It's pretty clear you're passionate about your belief, Dendy, but you need to step back. You're coming off a like a BTS fan who won't hear ANY criticism about his heroes. Richard is linking to the office of the Attorney General of the State of New York; these are facts.
Tether is troubling and it admitted to dodgy behavior; Tether could also entirely vindicate itself.
The environmental footprint of Bitcoin, despite your eye-rolling dismissal, is not some ignorant misrepresentation or over-exaggeration. This article in The New Yorker by Elizabeth Kolbert (Pulitzer Prize-winning author of "The Sixth Extinction") is about as well-sourced as any article you will find anywhere. Unfortunately for the crypto-literate, the fact that more and more people are becoming interested means that more and more mainstream news sources are going to cover the industry. There has without question been hysterical coverage of the energy use of bitcoin mining; Elizabeth Kolbert is by no means hysterical.
I will freely admit to my ignorance at the beginning of this discussion. I thought crytpocurrency was libertarian tech-bro fad. I was wrong, and I was smug in my ignorance. This back and forth got me to really investigate and read up on the history of blockchain. This primer by John Lanchester in The London Review of Books is fascinating and excellent. Lanchester is the rare literary writer who understands finance. And most important, unlike most in the financial press, he is not at all beholden to money wizards. If he doesn't understand something, he asks questions until he does. The kind of reporting that trusts implicitly in the word of those with a vested interest — including Forbes, WSJ, Fortune — is exactly what led to Enron's rise (and fall) and to the real estate bubble fueled by credit-default swaps.
Bitcoin is fascinating, but it's not a religion.
It already has been cleared up: https://tether.to/tether-and-bitfinex-reach-settlement-with-new-york-attorney-generals-office/
And their accounts on reserve have been verified: https://tether.to/assurance-opinion-mar-21/
@richardyot doesn’t seem to be referencing the latest information.
Well, it's "cleared up" if you mean that Tether and related entities paid $18.5 million in penalties and agreed to cease any trading activity with New Yorkers, and they must report every quarter to the AG's office for the next two years.
Tether's press release (which @Neum says clears everything up) characterizes the settlement quite differently from how the NY AG portrays it. The press release should be treated as the pr/damage control piece that it is . The release says "they admit no wrongdoing" that is not the same as being innocent of wrongdoing. That they paid many millions of dollars (far more than their la) to avoid going to court ... indicates that they are less than confident that a court would agree that they did nothing wrong.
Here is the NY AG statement.
https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2021/attorney-general-james-ends-virtual-currency-trading-platform-bitfinexs-illegal
A settlement isn’t an admission of guilt. A guilty verdict in a trial is different. Legal claims require legal proof.
I find that a a surprising assertion coming from you @espiegel123. It seems beneath you. Parties settle litigation all the time to avoid the expense and negative PR of going to court. You can't really be implying that every settlement, every plea bargain, every arbitration settlement is proof that the accused party knows they will lose? Sometimes the cost equation just doesn't add up when considering whether or not to fight.
This is not a comment on the case in point. I have no opinion on that. I just think its naive and unfair to assume anything whatsoever about the motivation of settling something like that. What you say doesn't even make sense. Why not assume the NY attorney general agreed to the settlement because they didn't think they would win? No reason except one's personal bias.
My son was sued when he was barely 20 by a clearly mentally unbalanced woman who was trying to force him to continue developing concept art for her. There was no contract, no deliverables, nothing written whatsoever, and she had barely paid him a fraction of the hours she demanded of him indefinitely. The stress derailed his college work and was causing him extreme mental anguish. He just wanted to move on.
She had not a chance of winning anything. Had we been willing to defend, the case clearly would have been thrown out with prejudice, but we ended up settling because the toil, time, and expense of fighting we just not worth it. Bad party wins. It happens all the time. Prosecutors and even attorney generals are not immune to being the unfair party.
My son still suffers from the emotional trauma of it all. That's the way it goes sometimes. If you implied to my face back then that we obviously didn't think we could have prevailed in court, I'd probably have punched you in the nose.
So sorry, @espiegel123 for calling you out like that. It's just a sore spot.
Perhaps I wasn’t clear. My basic point is that the press release of a company that paid a large settlement can hardly be used to support a claim that that everything is cleared up.
Particularly, when you read the NY AG’s statement.
@wim: I am sorry that you went through what you did. It is true that people settle frivolous suits — but there isn’t anything in the NY AG’s complaint that suggests that this is a frivolous suit. So, I think the context is quite different from what you dealt with — and I am surprised that you would imply that my post was underhanded or lacking integrity.
Nothing I said implied that all people that settle are guilty. You are absolutely correct, people guilty of no wrong-doing often settle nuisance lawsuits because the cost (monetary or emotionally) is greater than the cost of settling.
I think if you look at the particulars of the case, this doesn’t look like a nuisance lawsuit filed by an unhinged person.
Not underhanded or lacking integrity, just intellectually lazy or biased IMO. I have high regard for your clear intelligence and logical thinking. That post seemed unworthy of it.
You used the fact that they settled as a proof that they didn't think they could win. I know you don't assume that for all cases, but you clearly did in this case. I was only pointing out that bias was the only justification for that remark based only on what you wrote. If you say there is more behind the comment than what you wrote, I believe you.
Ahh. so you agree that the NY Attorney General settled because they didn't think they could win. 👍🏼
Just kidding. I had to take a parting shot.
FWIW, I would probably agree with you about the case in point if I cared to dive into it, which I really don't. I think I've already got the necessary takeaways for myself: 1) Be very careful about trusting those two parties, and 2) the issue is put to rest as far as I'm concerned unless ongoing reporting requirements aren't met. For those two bits of info I'm grateful for this subject having been discussed.
This feels like fans of bitcoin muddying the waters to make it appear that there's some debate as to the culpability of Tether. The New York Attorney General is not in the habit of making spurious claims in order to force deep-pocketed plaintiffs to settle quick for a few bucks. THAT is intellectually dishonest and lazy. No one settles a claim without the provision that it precludes an admission of guilt.
@wim: my point was that the damage control press release doesn't clear up anything and that the fact of the settlement (without proving any guilt) itself leaves the waters muddied. Maybe, I should have stuck to that.
Re: "Ahh. so you agree that the NY Attorney General settled because they didn't think they could win.
Just kidding. I had to have a parting shot."
I know that you are kidding, but it is worth noting that the NY AG's office got things of value (both fines and changes in business practices). It doesn't show any lack of confidence in prevailing -- it may indicate that they thought the additional value of going to trial would have been in excess of the cost when they consider their limit resources -- not because they wouldn't prevail
unlike large corporations, enforcement agencies have finite resources -- which is why (for instance) the IRS RARELY gets into legal battles with the extremely wealthy -- they don't have resources to fight ongoing legal battles.
I think a lot of people don't realize that corporations and the very wealthy often take advantage of the limited resources of law enforcement and regulatory agencies. (Anyone unaware of this, should spend a little time reading about why the IRS disproportionately does not target the wealthy and why regulatory agencies avoid getting into battles with the largest companies).
EDIT: And it is absolutely true that the AG might have had nothing. $15 million is nothing, really, given the amount of money we're talking about, so Tether might just consider it the cost of doing business. Although the agreement to submit to a quarterly review to the AG office for two years does suggest otherwise.
Despite my antagonism on the subject, I feel like this is an example of the legal system actually working as it should. Illegal activity suspected, enforcement action brought, issues brought to light in the most objective manner possible, and corrective measures agreed upon. I can live with that. 👍🏼
I'm for anything that successfully heads off the US Congress getting involved.
I dunno. Think of the PR upside assuming they're able to claim to be "NY Attorney General Certified" at the end of it all.
Ha!
I can see the little sticker applied to their homepage next "As Seen on TV!"
Do you understand that Tether (which is a cryptocoin) is not Bitcoin?
Yes, I understand that Tether is not Bitcoin. I should have written "fans of cryptocurrency" or something more broad.
The price of dogecoin shot up from $0.25 to $0.30 in less than 15 minutes after Musk posted a cryptic tweet reading: ‘The Dogefather"
https://www.the-sun.com/news/2785714/elon-musk-cryptocurrency-snl-bitcoin-dogecoin-twitter/
As far as I know, he doesn’t actually hold (hodl) any DOGE anyway. He just loves memes.
i swear, in next bear market when price will fall down back to 20 satoshis, i buy huge bag of this nonsense and set limit sell to 500 sats - and will patiently wait to next elon's random tweet to harvest fortune
That was a good article I thought, reasonably neutral, wasn't advocating one side over the other, and a decent history of the early days of Bitcoin, Silk Road, Mt Gox etc...
Only bitcoiner can understand why is almost certain this car was purchased by somebody from bitcoin twitter community :-)))
Few.
and it had to be a Tesla 😜
Few understand this
Lol, yeah - he’s doing a bit of carbon offsetting there clearly