Replicate Octatrack with Drambo and OP-Z? Talk me out of a purchase!

supadom

@dvi said:

@supadom said:

@dvi said:
What I’m missing is not functionality, since I already know that Drambo can do it all if you’re ready to swipe around, but the immediacy of control in hardware like the Electrons (mind you, I’ve never held one in my hands so perhaps don’t know what I’m talking about). I like that you can control the entire device with six encoders or so, which change functionality depending on what page you’re on.

The real game changer for me would be if Drambo could use macro parameters (already sort of implemented in the mapping interfaces for the AUs), but especially that the macros work only on the selected track and can be quickly mapped. That is, that I can control all the tracks with just six encoders. The main hurdle for this is as far as I know is relative mapping, which Drambo manages quite well. To my knowledge, only GR-16 has gotten this right and that’s why I’m so drawn to it lately, since it interfaces quite seamlessly with the Minilab.

The macro functionality I’d like to have in Drambo is implemented in Ableton: the first six encoders of the Minilab are pre-mapped to the macro parameters depending on the track you’re using, so you can build complex racks and assign the macros as you like. The others are premapped to track sends, volume, panning and allow you to scroll through tracks and through the launch grid. If this worked out, the Korg nanokey studio would get you as close to an octatrack as it could be desired.

To the insiders: is there anything like this coming in Drambo 1.5? I would be the happiest cat in the block if so.

Currently a track can receive midi: always on a specified channel or if the track is selected. This means you could have a pad or button assigned to select a track and then use the upcoming morph module (macro) to modulate whatever parameter you wish, including ones without the triangle next to them.

I’m not sure how it works on mini lab but launchkey mini can be set so each pad selects a separate track and then the 8 knobs will be possible to assign to 8 morph/macro knobs giving you a lot of control for each track.

Thanks! So it sounds like the morph module might fit the bill for macros and for simplifying super long patches. The minilab also has 16 pads and I have them mapped to those in Drambo, so it’s easy to select them, trigger them, mute them, etc. However, the current catch, which I realize I didn’t make clear before, is that if you map one knob to one control in one track you cannot map the same knob in another track since the knob is identified only as CC XX. The morph module would have to be smart about this. Fingers crossed!

If you have tracks set as ‘active track’ other track knob mappings shouldn’t respond. Only the active track mappings will be active when the track is selected…from memory.

0tolerance4silence

@supadom said:

@dvi said:

@supadom said:

@dvi said:
What I’m missing is not functionality, since I already know that Drambo can do it all if you’re ready to swipe around, but the immediacy of control in hardware like the Electrons (mind you, I’ve never held one in my hands so perhaps don’t know what I’m talking about). I like that you can control the entire device with six encoders or so, which change functionality depending on what page you’re on.

The real game changer for me would be if Drambo could use macro parameters (already sort of implemented in the mapping interfaces for the AUs), but especially that the macros work only on the selected track and can be quickly mapped. That is, that I can control all the tracks with just six encoders. The main hurdle for this is as far as I know is relative mapping, which Drambo manages quite well. To my knowledge, only GR-16 has gotten this right and that’s why I’m so drawn to it lately, since it interfaces quite seamlessly with the Minilab.

The macro functionality I’d like to have in Drambo is implemented in Ableton: the first six encoders of the Minilab are pre-mapped to the macro parameters depending on the track you’re using, so you can build complex racks and assign the macros as you like. The others are premapped to track sends, volume, panning and allow you to scroll through tracks and through the launch grid. If this worked out, the Korg nanokey studio would get you as close to an octatrack as it could be desired.

To the insiders: is there anything like this coming in Drambo 1.5? I would be the happiest cat in the block if so.

Currently a track can receive midi: always on a specified channel or if the track is selected. This means you could have a pad or button assigned to select a track and then use the upcoming morph module (macro) to modulate whatever parameter you wish, including ones without the triangle next to them.

I’m not sure how it works on mini lab but launchkey mini can be set so each pad selects a separate track and then the 8 knobs will be possible to assign to 8 morph/macro knobs giving you a lot of control for each track.

Thanks! So it sounds like the morph module might fit the bill for macros and for simplifying super long patches. The minilab also has 16 pads and I have them mapped to those in Drambo, so it’s easy to select them, trigger them, mute them, etc. However, the current catch, which I realize I didn’t make clear before, is that if you map one knob to one control in one track you cannot map the same knob in another track since the knob is identified only as CC XX. The morph module would have to be smart about this. Fingers crossed!

If you have tracks set as ‘active track’ other track knob mappings shouldn’t respond. Only the active track mappings will be active when the track is selected…from memory.

@supadom
That’s incorrect.
‘Active track’ setting in track menu only applies to ‘TRACK’ enabled inputs (typically your keyboard), in order to map midi cc to a parameter, ‘CONTROL’ has to be enabled for the port, but this port/input will disregard track selection. Otherwise you could only tweak parameters that are visible.

wim

@dvi said:
The macro functionality I’d like to have in Drambo is implemented in Ableton: the first six encoders of the Minilab are pre-mapped to the macro parameters depending on the track you’re using, so you can build complex racks and assign the macros as you like. The others are premapped to track sends, volume, panning and allow you to scroll through tracks and through the launch grid. If this worked out, the Korg nanokey studio would get you as close to an octatrack as it could be desired.

I was playing around with CC Modulator modules for this with my NanoKEY Studio. Works pretty good. The only problem is setup has to be done every time (but only on one channel, after that copy/paste is easy).

I'm not well enough versed in Drambo to understand if there's a way to incorporate these into an instrument rack for easy reuse and the possibility to collapse the rack. When I tried that, the rack only had one output to connect to.

slicetwo

@mistercharlie said:

Tomorrow I’ll try to set it up as an Octatrack clone, with samplers on a few tracks, and see how I can use if for live looping. That’s probably going to be the decider. Nothing comes close to the Octatrack for live looping and chopping up the results.

Still undecided though. And there’s a very nice one on sale in my neighborhood…

I've had an OT twice. It's amazing, but I didn't use enough of it to justify not taking the money I could sell it for.

If it helps, here is a Drambo sampler I made to mimic an Octatrack channel. Load it up on as many tracks as you like and play around. Feel free to edit the hell out of it, too!

https://patchstorage.com/monotrack-2/

Gravitas

@slicetwo said:

@mistercharlie said:

Tomorrow I’ll try to set it up as an Octatrack clone, with samplers on a few tracks, and see how I can use if for live looping. That’s probably going to be the decider. Nothing comes close to the Octatrack for live looping and chopping up the results.

Still undecided though. And there’s a very nice one on sale in my neighborhood…

I've had an OT twice. It's amazing, but I didn't use enough of it to justify not taking the money I could sell it for.

If it helps, here is a Drambo sampler I made to mimic an Octatrack channel. Load it up on as many tracks as you like and play around. Feel free to edit the hell out of it, too!

https://patchstorage.com/monotrack-2/

I saw this patch earlier.
I’m going to have a play as soon as I get the chance.

It looks cool.

supadom

@0tolerance4silence said:

@supadom said:

@dvi said:

@supadom said:

@dvi said:
What I’m missing is not functionality, since I already know that Drambo can do it all if you’re ready to swipe around, but the immediacy of control in hardware like the Electrons (mind you, I’ve never held one in my hands so perhaps don’t know what I’m talking about). I like that you can control the entire device with six encoders or so, which change functionality depending on what page you’re on.

The real game changer for me would be if Drambo could use macro parameters (already sort of implemented in the mapping interfaces for the AUs), but especially that the macros work only on the selected track and can be quickly mapped. That is, that I can control all the tracks with just six encoders. The main hurdle for this is as far as I know is relative mapping, which Drambo manages quite well. To my knowledge, only GR-16 has gotten this right and that’s why I’m so drawn to it lately, since it interfaces quite seamlessly with the Minilab.

The macro functionality I’d like to have in Drambo is implemented in Ableton: the first six encoders of the Minilab are pre-mapped to the macro parameters depending on the track you’re using, so you can build complex racks and assign the macros as you like. The others are premapped to track sends, volume, panning and allow you to scroll through tracks and through the launch grid. If this worked out, the Korg nanokey studio would get you as close to an octatrack as it could be desired.

To the insiders: is there anything like this coming in Drambo 1.5? I would be the happiest cat in the block if so.

Currently a track can receive midi: always on a specified channel or if the track is selected. This means you could have a pad or button assigned to select a track and then use the upcoming morph module (macro) to modulate whatever parameter you wish, including ones without the triangle next to them.

I’m not sure how it works on mini lab but launchkey mini can be set so each pad selects a separate track and then the 8 knobs will be possible to assign to 8 morph/macro knobs giving you a lot of control for each track.

Thanks! So it sounds like the morph module might fit the bill for macros and for simplifying super long patches. The minilab also has 16 pads and I have them mapped to those in Drambo, so it’s easy to select them, trigger them, mute them, etc. However, the current catch, which I realize I didn’t make clear before, is that if you map one knob to one control in one track you cannot map the same knob in another track since the knob is identified only as CC XX. The morph module would have to be smart about this. Fingers crossed!

If you have tracks set as ‘active track’ other track knob mappings shouldn’t respond. Only the active track mappings will be active when the track is selected…from memory.

@supadom
That’s incorrect.
‘Active track’ setting in track menu only applies to ‘TRACK’ enabled inputs (typically your keyboard), in order to map midi cc to a parameter, ‘CONTROL’ has to be enabled for the port, but this port/input will disregard track selection. Otherwise you could only tweak parameters that are visible.

That was from memory. Now thinking of it Launchkey mini has 16 pads that can easily switch between 16 channels. I only used them mapped to track pads for mutes and soloing tracks.

Thanks for the correction.

slicetwo

@Gravitas said:

@slicetwo said:

@mistercharlie said:

Tomorrow I’ll try to set it up as an Octatrack clone, with samplers on a few tracks, and see how I can use if for live looping. That’s probably going to be the decider. Nothing comes close to the Octatrack for live looping and chopping up the results.

Still undecided though. And there’s a very nice one on sale in my neighborhood…

I've had an OT twice. It's amazing, but I didn't use enough of it to justify not taking the money I could sell it for.

If it helps, here is a Drambo sampler I made to mimic an Octatrack channel. Load it up on as many tracks as you like and play around. Feel free to edit the hell out of it, too!

https://patchstorage.com/monotrack-2/

I saw this patch earlier.
I’m going to have a play as soon as I get the chance.

It looks cool.

Let me know what you think! I have a v3 that has a pitch shift section but I can’t seem to update the patch from my iPad on PatchStorage.

Gravitas

@slicetwo said:

@Gravitas said:

@slicetwo said:

@mistercharlie said:

Tomorrow I’ll try to set it up as an Octatrack clone, with samplers on a few tracks, and see how I can use if for live looping. That’s probably going to be the decider. Nothing comes close to the Octatrack for live looping and chopping up the results.

Still undecided though. And there’s a very nice one on sale in my neighborhood…

I've had an OT twice. It's amazing, but I didn't use enough of it to justify not taking the money I could sell it for.

If it helps, here is a Drambo sampler I made to mimic an Octatrack channel. Load it up on as many tracks as you like and play around. Feel free to edit the hell out of it, too!

https://patchstorage.com/monotrack-2/

I saw this patch earlier.
I’m going to have a play as soon as I get the chance.

It looks cool.

Let me know what you think! I have a v3 that has a pitch shift section but I can’t seem to update the patch from my iPad on PatchStorage.

Okay will do.

I haven’t used an Octatrack before so I don’t know what to expect.
It’ll be fun.

AlmostAnonymous

@Gravitas said:
I haven’t used an Octatrack before so I don’t know what to expect.

mistercharlie

@slicetwo trying this now, and I like it!

slicetwo

@mistercharlie said:
@slicetwo trying this now, and I like it!

Excellent!

Frank303

Traktor, the dj software by Native Instruments, has this nifty modifier condition. Say button A on your controller sends out cc1, mapped to say Mute Track 1, but when you also hold down button B first, and then button A sends cc1, because in the mapping you programmed cc1 when B=0 is Mute Track 1 and when receive cc1 when B=1 it’s mapped to Solo Track 1.
It’s way better explained in this article linked below. But this way you could make the track specific macros work. Say you have a row of 8 knobs, and each are for a specific track, select track so to say. These are actually the ‘modifiers’ 1 to 8. Select ‘track 1, and the modifier is held down. Then any other button on your controller can be mapped to any control specific to that track. Select Track 2 and modifier 2 is held down, so all cc’s are received as cc1+m2=1 and you can map all your buttons to that track 2. This would be great, I think but likely not so easy to implement 😂 Also perhaps better for in a Drambo thread sorry, but it seems appropriate because there’s talk about mapping.

“ The function of these conditions is that they tell Traktor that when the assigned MIDI data is received, look to see if the modifier condition is true (which in the case of modifiers means when the selected M1-M8 modifier is equal to the selected state number 0-7) and if so, then carry out the mapping command. If you happen to be familiar with programming at all, you can think of these modifier conditions as an If/Then statement.”

https://djtechtools.com/2014/05/11/midi-mapping-101-the-traktor-modifier-re-explained/

Gravitas

@AlmostAnonymous said:

@Gravitas said:
I haven’t used an Octatrack before so I don’t know what to expect.

What happened?

I must’ve missed an episode somewhere.
When are the reruns???

rs2000

@Frank303 said:
Traktor, the dj software by Native Instruments, has this nifty modifier condition. Say button A on your controller sends out cc1, mapped to say Mute Track 1, but when you also hold down button B first, and then button A sends cc1, because in the mapping you programmed cc1 when B=0 is Mute Track 1 and when receive cc1 when B=1 it’s mapped to Solo Track 1.
It’s way better explained in this article linked below. But this way you could make the track specific macros work. Say you have a row of 8 knobs, and each are for a specific track, select track so to say. These are actually the ‘modifiers’ 1 to 8. Select ‘track 1, and the modifier is held down. Then any other button on your controller can be mapped to any control specific to that track. Select Track 2 and modifier 2 is held down, so all cc’s are received as cc1+m2=1 and you can map all your buttons to that track 2. This would be great, I think but likely not so easy to implement 😂 Also perhaps better for in a Drambo thread sorry, but it seems appropriate because there’s talk about mapping.

“ The function of these conditions is that they tell Traktor that when the assigned MIDI data is received, look to see if the modifier condition is true (which in the case of modifiers means when the selected M1-M8 modifier is equal to the selected state number 0-7) and if so, then carry out the mapping command. If you happen to be familiar with programming at all, you can think of these modifier conditions as an If/Then statement.”

https://djtechtools.com/2014/05/11/midi-mapping-101-the-traktor-modifier-re-explained/

There is also hardware available that supports multiple banks of controllers.
Got a Hercules Starlight DJ controller with a huge amount of CC groups for all the switches and pads, but there are many others that do as well.

AlmostAnonymous

@Frank303 said:
Traktor, the dj software by Native Instruments, has this nifty modifier condition. Say button A on your controller sends out cc1, mapped to say Mute Track 1, but when you also hold down button B first, and then button A sends cc1, because in the mapping you programmed cc1 when B=0 is Mute Track 1 and when receive cc1 when B=1 it’s mapped to Solo Track 1.
It’s way better explained in this article linked below. But this way you could make the track specific macros work. Say you have a row of 8 knobs, and each are for a specific track, select track so to say. These are actually the ‘modifiers’ 1 to 8. Select ‘track 1, and the modifier is held down. Then any other button on your controller can be mapped to any control specific to that track. Select Track 2 and modifier 2 is held down, so all cc’s are received as cc1+m2=1 and you can map all your buttons to that track 2. This would be great, I think but likely not so easy to implement 😂 Also perhaps better for in a Drambo thread sorry, but it seems appropriate because there’s talk about mapping.

“ The function of these conditions is that they tell Traktor that when the assigned MIDI data is received, look to see if the modifier condition is true (which in the case of modifiers means when the selected M1-M8 modifier is equal to the selected state number 0-7) and if so, then carry out the mapping command. If you happen to be familiar with programming at all, you can think of these modifier conditions as an If/Then statement.”

https://djtechtools.com/2014/05/11/midi-mapping-101-the-traktor-modifier-re-explained/

Ive REALLY been debating picking up an S8. Ive read the manual for midi programming, but never seen thina "modifier". Does it exist on all their stuff? Normally i would just make these modifier keys in mozaic.

Frank303

@AlmostAnonymous said:
Ive REALLY been debating picking up an S8. Ive read the manual for midi programming, but never seen thina "modifier". Does it exist on all their stuff? Normally i would just make these modifier keys in mozaic.

It’s in the software (Traktor) That’s why I think it’d be great for Drambo. Here in the picture, you can see the cc 005 on channel 2 being mapped to different functions, depending on the modifier states. (Ie, modifier 6 being in state 0,1,2 or 3). Like what rs2000 said, there are also hardware controllers that have several Banks, that somewhat work the same, but then it’s in the hardware not the software like what I mean Traktor does. Like for example the hopefully coming BCR32, that’s supposed to have 4 banks (not enough lol, that’s why software modifiers could be great)

AlmostAnonymous

@Frank303 said:

@AlmostAnonymous said:
Ive REALLY been debating picking up an S8. Ive read the manual for midi programming, but never seen thina "modifier". Does it exist on all their stuff? Normally i would just make these modifier keys in mozaic.

It’s in the software (Traktor) That’s why I think it’d be great for Drambo. Here in the picture, you can see the cc 005 on channel 2 being mapped to different functions, depending on the modifier states. (Ie, modifier 6 being in state 0,1,2 or 3). Like what rs2000 said, there are also hardware controllers that have several Banks, that somewhat work the same, but then it’s in the hardware not the software like what I mean Traktor does. Like for example the hopefully coming BCR32, that’s supposed to have 4 banks (not enough lol, that’s why software modifiers could be great)

Ah, i thought you were saying its in its midi mapping software. Not tracktor.
Mosaic works just finne for making modifiers/additional banks. And man are people gonna be upset when they plug that behringer into their ipad and it doesnt light up, lol

Frank303

@AlmostAnonymous said:

And man are people gonna be upset when they plug that behringer into their ipad and it doesnt light up, lol

Haha lol yeah that’s likely to happen. I still want it though, and while I’d miss the feedback, basically I just need endless encoders because I don’t really need to see where it’s at, I can hear that, as long as I know what knob is what. So just move slightly and depend on motor memory when you have things set in place. Like with the modifiers for Traktor, I’ve been using mappings like that for controllers for a long time and quite adopted to setting stuff up in a workable way for me. Even the quirkiest controllers can be squeezed to do their thing, as long as you think the workflow through. The BCR32 could be enough for 8 tracks… thinking of having each of the 4 banks controlling two tracks. So bank 1, 16 knobs on the left for track 1 and the 16 on the right for track 2 etc. 16 knobs per track is enough for my use. Then have a standard, so cutoff first knob top left, following down could be res, decay, lfo mod, env mod etc get the most common ones and then last row for the instrument/track specific. Easy enough to remember. Then as for the sequencer, yeah feedback would be enormously important. A hardware sequencer instead of just a midi controller would be better right now. Perhaps the BCR could do that too? I have no experience with the Zaquencer so can’t say.

Gravitas

@slicetwo

I had a play with your patch and if that's what the Octatrack does then dRambo
can do it with oodles more except time stretching which will eventually happen.

Thank you.

Now to catch up with the episode I missed @AlmostAnonymous ???

wim

+1 @slicetwo - great patch. I've had a great time with it over the past two nights.

I think I might pare it down a little bit as I only ever use maybe three or four LFO's, etc. but the way you've put it together is super fun and inspiring.

I've also recently discovered the "CC Modulator" module, which is a great way to enable knobs on a controller to act like Macro knobs, affecting only the currently selected track. I think my next effort is going to be to link all this up to my NanoKEY Studio, with the knobs linked to select functions and the pads managing enabling/disabling duties.

Thanks again for your efforts!

mistercharlie

I’ve spent the last few days playing with Drambo, and with my OP-Z. Drambo really is excellent, but there’s something about using apps on a touch screen that puts me off. Or rather, I don’t feel connected to what I’m doing.

This is 100% personal preference. I know that many people are the other way around. The one iPad app that feels like hardware to me is BM3. I love it. I tried using midi controllers, but even with physical knobs, you have to look at the screen to see what they’re doing. And then the midi connection stops working…

Plus, almost every song I make ends up in Ableton for arrangement anyway.

I ordered an Octatrack. It arrives next week. For my purposes, listed above already, I think it might be the best option, especially combined with Ableton, and my Eventide H9.

I think Drambo is going to make an excellent sound source for it, too. That, and Factory.

rs2000

I'm very interested in your own experience @mistercharlie!
Enjoy your new gear.

AlmostAnonymous

@Gravitas said:
@slicetwo

I had a play with your patch and if that's what the Octatrack does then dRambo
can do it with oodles more except time stretching which will eventually happen.

Thank you.

Now to catch up with the episode I missed @AlmostAnonymous ???

Haha. People have a love hate thing with the OT. Its amazing, but its too much menu diving for me. Just not a fan. Its my least favorite elektron and i always get fustrated using it.

Now the fans of it are all gonna say "its hard...you gotta commit,...you didnt spend enough time wih it.....etc". I did. Its just not for me.

I know i shouldnt judge on the equipment people use, bt rather the sound they make with it, but i always roll my eyes a bit when people show up to the gig or the audition with one. I usually hand them a microphone 1st before i let them turn on the octa.

Its just a very polarizing piece of gear. Octatrack (and modular guys too) are the like most anti-daw/anti software people youll meet.
(Which is now being eclipsed by the akai live 2/akai one usrs....which isnweird cause its basically a daw in a box, but they concider it hardware/dawless)

wawelt

All the best, Charlie!

AlmostAnonymous

But back on topic, youll never fully replicate the octa experience in drambo. Its quite a unique instrument. I do recommend everyone try using an octa for a few months.
Theres basically no difference between the mk1 and the mk2 other than the clakyness of the buttons (mk1s are louder than mk2s) and the inputs/outputs are a bit hotter on the 2. Software and featurewise they are identical.

I do recommend buying an octa (mk1 or 2, but 1s can be had for 700..just ask how wobbly the encoders are as they are the 1st things to go) and trying it as no other instrument has its approach. Its even different from the digitakt. And youll neve lose money selling it. Youll always break even.

But it is a 10+ year old instrument at this point. No usb midi or audio (and it will never get it), effects sound dated (but this is debatable), but nothing has come close to its workflow.

Personally ive given up on elektron. The octa was he last real elecktron imho. Curious where that company is gonna go with its new CEO who has done nothing but SaaS companies, and everyone who was anything in that company originally has left or is dead.

Edit: as you can see from my rant how polarizing it is. Ill talk smack about it, but it is what it is and it is an accomplishment of a device. If you wanna hear me really just shit talk.....lets talk about the op1 and TE

Gravitas

@AlmostAnonymous said:

@Gravitas said:
@slicetwo

I had a play with your patch and if that's what the Octatrack does then dRambo
can do it with oodles more except time stretching which will eventually happen.

Thank you.

Now to catch up with the episode I missed @AlmostAnonymous ???

Haha. People have a love hate thing with the OT. Its amazing, but its too much menu diving for me. Just not a fan. Its my least favorite elektron and i always get fustrated using it.

The least amount of menu diving the better.

Now the fans of it are all gonna say "its hard...you gotta commit,...you didnt spend enough time wih it.....etc". I did. Its just not for me.

Fair does.

I know i shouldnt judge on the equipment people use, bt rather the sound they make with it, but i always roll my eyes a bit when people show up to the gig or the audition with one. I usually hand them a microphone 1st before i let them turn on the octa.

Yeah, I hear you.
I’ve been there as well.

Its just a very polarizing piece of gear. Octatrack (and modular guys too) are the like most anti-daw/anti software people youll meet.
(Which is now being eclipsed by the akai live 2/akai one usrs....which isnweird cause its basically a daw in a box, but they concider it hardware/dawless)

I’ve seen some of the polarised view points in
regards to Octarack and Elektron gear in general.

I don’t get that view point because they’re all mini computers basically.
Correct if I wrong but don’t they all have firmware?
They have an operating system to be able to sample etc, etc??

Thanks for the catch up.

AlmostAnonymous

@gravitas
yeah, but firmware and an OS is pretty far from what the live II is providing.
Ive tried the akai as well. Im an old school akai guy and still use a 1k, but i dont really see the allure of the live/one.
I just keep thinking "ive done this better, with more flexibility, and 1/2 the price with an ipad and an mpd232"
But I get it, ipads aren't for everyone.

Also to balance it out, I can't say im a drambo guy either. That tool is too open ended for me to stay focused.
But then again, probably the same "spend more time with it" applies to drambo as well

Gravitas

@AlmostAnonymous said:
@gravitas
yeah, but firmware and an OS is pretty far from what the live II is providing.

What’s wrong with the Live II?

AlmostAnonymous

You spend far more time on that touchscreen than playing it. And if i'm going to cart around basically a DAW, theres just better options for my use cases. YMMV

echoopera

Congrats @mistercharlie you will fall in love with the OctaTrack all over again😉