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The drum/percussion app that many of us are missing in iOS
Rather than replying to @oat_phipps in the VADrum2 thread, I thought I'd start I new thread as it would be unfair to the developer of VADrum2 to derail into an opinion piece detailing what I'm missing with regards to Drum/Percussion apps on iOS. 
@oat_phipps said:
I just don’t need any more 808-inspired sounds. And only 4 sample slots is really weird.DrumKit and Hammerhead weren’t perfect solutions for me either way, but between the two I’ll get on just fine. Shame that Patterning guy won’t go to AU, but even that wasn’t a perfect solution either. I dunno really what is the perfect fake drum solution for me. Maybe hardware.
I agree with some of this, although I find with FAC Drumkit and Hammerhead, if you focus on what they're great at and ignore what’s missing, they partner with each other really well.
However, the thing that I’m screaming out for is an equivalent of Native Instruments Battery 4 (but coupled with a decent sequencing element with full automation capabilities). On the desktop, it doesn't matter to me that Battery doesn’t have a sequencer as I wrap it inside an Ableton Drum Rack and multi-out. The great thing about working that way is that you can run Maschine in Controller mode and have access to all 128 cells in the 16x8 Cell Matrix (switched via Machines Groups A-H, 16 pads in each group). And because you're using an Ableton Drum Rack, your sequencer lane can feature the actual pad/cell names, rather than a piano roll, which is a nightmare for drum sequencing, unless you're ‘Ran Man’ that is.
I use Battery 4 so much more than Maschine. Maschine is a great controller but it’s a convoluted workflow unless you’re using it as a standalone DAW replacement (which for me it's not).
The reason I'm going into so much detail about my desktop workflow is so hopefully a canny developer will realise that going the Beathawk/Maschine route is fine if all you're interested in is selling sound packs. But if they really want to fill the gaping percussion hole on iOS, go the Battery route. And here are the reasons why:
As you can see Battery provides everything you need to be in control of your percussion samples. As you can see on the Main page, you get both pitch and volume envelopes, the ability to map velocity to volume or pitch, the ability to swap between MPC60/SP1200 and standard playback engines, simple low and high pass filtering, a simple compressor and finally send FX.
The Effects tab is where things begin to cook. You get saturation in three flavours (classic, drums and tape), sophisticated bit reduction, a combined filter & eq section, which includes NI's SSL EQ as well as the vintage filter flavours (you'll notice no modulation, more on that in a bit), a far more sophisticated compressor that includes the SSL compressor amongst the options, and finally a transient designer.
The modulation page not only allows you to envelope the aforementioned filter/eq, but it also has a range of modulators that can attenuate virtually any parameter within Battery.
The setup page should be the dull page right? Not in Battery. Here you'll find per cell velocity curves, output routing, chokes, round robins and smart articulation options, midi echo and a humanise function that affects both timbre and timing.
The editor page is where you set up your samples, multi-samples, round-robin samples, loops and other such things.
The final tab is the master page useful for those that aren't using multiple outputs in their DAW.
Yep, you're right, my dream drum/percussion app in iOS would be Battery 4, if Native Instruments ever decide to take the platform seriously. So how do we move towards my dream drum/percussion app. For starters, Rome wasn't built in a day, and any developer that did think about developing something that mirrors Battery would only have to start with the framework and a roadmap. We'd all (hopefully) be patient if we knew what was coming once the app reached maturity. @blueveek personified the way to approach this with the Atom roadmap. I don't think I've ever seen a developer work with a community to such effective ends (all the while maintaining a strong vision and avoiding pointless feature creep).
But iOS is the platform of modularity, so maybe the way to approach this would be to create something with a similar architecture to AUM but specialised for drums/percussion. That way we can fill many of the constituent parts with third-party AUv3s. Most of the features that make Battery great already exist as Auv3's. And with the likes of Mozaic and Drambo, any other missing elements could soon be filled via community efforts. The part that's missing is a framework that provides the workflow advantages of Battery.
The obvious caveat to the modular framework approach is that a custom app would be far kinder on the CPU. And let's not mention the fact that modularity comes with a price tag. Granted, we ain't talking Eurorack here, but if you were late to the iOS music production game, all those piecemeal purchases start to add up!
Another part of the jigsaw for me is whether AUv3's have the ability to host other AUv3's. I've not experienced it within my app collection. This ability on the desktop is what enables you to run Maschine as an AU/VST in a DAW and Maschine can host other AU/VSTs. If AUv3's do not allow this, the AUM type approach may be the only option other than a bespoke app with bespoke elements. I ask because much as Battery 4 is purely for hosting samples, I'd love to see its iOS cousin have the ability to host drum synths as well as samples. The Brambos apps alone warrant both samples and AUv3 drum synths to be hosted by the same engine.
What are peoples thoughts on this. Am I totally bonkers and the only person that would like the power of Battery 4 as an iOS app. Discuss...
Comments
Just to clarify, an AUv3 cannot host other AUv3s, so a single host is needed to interconnect different modules. Of course, Drambo stand-alone is both a pretty clever synth/sequencer/etc. and an AUv3 host. It can even host instances of Drambo AUv3, which opens a lot of possibilities.
Somehow I'm reminded of Arturia iSpark.
16 drum channels with separate FX on each, 2 aux sends, 4 assignable choke groups, 6 velocity layers per pad, sequencer with pitch and MIDI clock sync, circular and random round robin...
Finding the SDS X AU beta pretty good for my current needs. It’s simple but affective and using the app in a middle of a chain a lot can be accomplished.
Bearing in mind it’s still in beta so report back any issues to the dev.
https://testflight.apple.com/join/05hGzasa
The parameters pitching, pan, and level can be modulated in AUM for each of the 9 pads plus the sequencer patterns can be changed that way. Building chains in Drambo or AUM opens up a lot of possibilities.
https://testflight.apple.com/join/05hGzasa
I have thought that for years. i love battery on my desktop. i really wish it would get ported to ios, or at least a lite version of the app. it’s very powerful, but yet quick to use
I thought that was most probably the case. Thanks for the clarification. BTW I am a Drambo user it’s just that I’ve been away from the forum for a few years so you wouldn’t have seen me in any of the epic threads!
I use all of the main modular hosts AUM, ApeMatrix and I’d include Drambo in that modular host category although I mainly use Drambo as an AUv3. And with a great mix of AUv3s and Mozaic, many of the things I can achieve with Battery 4 on the desktop are possible but none of it approaches the workflow advantages I get by dropping my Ableton Drum Rack hosting Battery into an Ableton channel.
It’s funny, I’m not hung up sticking to directly to AUv3’s on my iPad Pro. Ihave a lot of AUv3 things set up as channel strips in AUM and then bring those into Cubasis 3 as IAA ports. Far more flexible than attempting the same in Cubasis directly, plus it has the advantge that I can use those same channel strips anywhere that can host them, or simply use them in AUM directly for noodling. It’s a pity that Drambo doesn’t publish as a multiport IAA too, that would open up a wealth of opportunities.
It’s actually this multi-port approach that I was thinking about with regards to a Battery style app on iOS, simply because the flexibility of AUM in this regard. But AUM isn’t optimised for drums/percussion so that’s why I think it would need to be something bespoke. It would only need 8 stereo ports to offer the same multi-out capabilities as Battery 4.
I have attempted to mimic Battery 3 in Drambo directly, but cause I use it mainly as an AUv3 in Cubasis it’s not flexible enougth. Maybe when Atom 2 has automation editing I might attempt again.
But all that asside a bespoke AUv3 with a comparable set of features to Battery 4 would obviously be my dream ticket.
ignore pressed quote rather than edit (for the 100th time!).
That’s the hard thing to communicate. For all its power it feels very lightweight in use.
If drumcomputer went universal I don’t think I’d ever ‘need’ another drum app
Segments/EG Pulse
FAC Drumkit
Hammerhead
Ruismaker
GR-16
Pure Acid
Fractal Bits
All bases covered really unless you’re looking for ‘sounds like a real drummer’
I own Spark and the Spark hardware on the desktop (and really like it). I didn’t ever purchase iSpark and I’m glad I didn’t as it hasn’t been updated in years. The only Arturia app I own on iOS is iSEM (which is glorious as long as you disable its horrid boxy overdrive and soft clip and use FAC or Toonbooters alternaives (not a single project of mine in iOS goes without ReelBus!).
I must demo Drum Computer again at some point. I tried it when it came it and it didn’t really click. But in all honesty I have a love hate relationship with Sugar Bytes. I adore their FM apps (and Factory) and I’ve been a user of Thesys and Consquence since they were first released on the desktop. But their FX leave me cold and I was probably harboring some confirmation bias against Sugar Bytes when I demoed Drum Computer.
Battery 4 as an AUv3 would do it for me. Not going to bother explaining why because it will fall on deaf ears or contrarians.
NI would know why, so just fingers crossed that they see an opportunity
I’ve been testing it out and for what it is, it’s great, but it’s probably a little to simple for my needs. I did however use it in combination with Drambo over the weekend. Drambo was providing MIDI triggered envelopes/filtering and saturation too. Much as I enjoyed putting the setup together I came to the conclusion that I might as well use Drambo alone. The pads aren’t of any appeal as I have both a Lauchpad Pro mk3 and an old Maschine Mk1 for drum triggering (Machine is running in controller only mode, MIDI DIN out of a laptop setup into the Launchpad and then MIDI DIN out of the Launchpad into the iPad Pro. If only Native Instuments didn’t force you to go this convoluted route. Hey ho…
Before I switched to iPad/Cubasis this year, NI Battery was my 'go to' for all my percussion needs, for many of the reasons you mentioned above @jonmoore !
I'm currently flicking between EG Pulse, Digistix2 and FAC Drumkit, but they all have advantages and disadvantages, for my workflow at least (mainly layering my own drum samples).
FAC Drumkit is becoming my favourite - you can load a whole directory of samples onto one pad (16 total pads), and flick through them 1 by 1 during playback (to decide which hi-hat fits best, for e.g.) It also has 'per pad' HPF/LPF, which is a must for the sort of sample layering I do. The only limitations are the max 1sec sample time (which can be a bit restrictive for crash cymbals) and no waveform editor.
Digistix uniquely has up to 5 layers per pad which is great, and 4 banks of 16 pads so plenty of sample slots. It also has a good waveform editor, but the HPF/LPF only operates on the whole kit, not per sample, (as does the distortion).
EG Pulse is super simple to use, only 16 pads, but very intuitive in terms of ADSR/sample waveform selection. There is a HPF (per pad, I think) but I struggle to get it to work. I also ran into an issue where all my ADSR settings / Reverse effects got messed up upon reloading a project, and another instance where a particular sample wasn't playing back intermittently (which is what first made my go searching for an alternative)
I usually have an instance of one of the above for kicks, another for snares/claps, another for hi-hats and a final for misc percussion. Digistix seems the most problematic in running multiple instances like this. FAC seems quite happy.
As I say, they all have their strengths and weaknesses, but ultimately I'm also still waiting for that 'NI Battery' equivalent!
I’m finding the Maximum 1 second sample aspect of FAC Drumkit a major limitation too. But once I got my head around layering samples with the synth engine things started cooking. No choke groups is my other major gripe with FAC Drumkit.
But for now, FAC Drumkit is my main sample playback engine for my Goldbaby/Battery 4 favourites. I keep my sample collection on a 128Gb Sandisk drive that has both USB3 and Lighning connectors (perfect for use with both iPhone Pro Max and M1 iPad Pro via a hub) and use Auditor to read directly from the Sandisk to sort into folders for FAC DK. It’s as close as I can get to the sample loading workflow in Battery.
I've spent much of the last 24 hours in the company of DrumComputer again and I found out what I didn't like about it last time, but the good news was that I found the source of my issues.
The last time I demo'd DrumComputer I went through many, many of the preset drumkits rather than having a deep dive into the synthesis engine itself. My logic was that with there being so many kits available if the synth engine was any good at least a few of the kits would land on target; but this wasn't the case. However, I've found the root cause of this failure and that's that all the preset kits go through a horrendously aggressive Finalizer stage which crushes the life out of the synth engine, which is actually capable of decent organic warmth as well as boxy and crushed. The fx are of course pants but as I mentioned before I've never warmed to Sugar Bytes fx.
It's a decent analogue-style sequencer too with plenty of polyrhythmic chops and suchlike. And I hadn't realised that the sequencer has MIDI out too, so that was a bonus.
It's a pity that it doesn't offer sample playback too as that's the real place where I have a Battery shaped hole on iOS. But the synth engine such that it is, provides so much more than your typical Roland TR fare; and that's what makes it so great as iOS is already teaming with Roland TR replacements but this is so much more.
I've quite obviously purchased it now (just on iOS for the moment). Switching off all FX and multi-outing is the thing that finally sold it for me. With the likes of FAC, I can fill most of my percussion FX needs but the one thing I'm desperate for is an SSL style glue compressor. Many iOS plugins bandy the words 'glue compressor' about, but any I've tried so far have been far less than satisfying. I've kissed far too many ugly ducks on that front! FAC Maxima is great to slam things but that's not what you want from an SSL style buss compressor.
DrumComputer has a sampler. It's not superduper deep, but it's in the 3rd sound module.
My biggest issue with iPad drums has been lack of external controller support. I’m ok accepting constraints as long as I have a good human interface beyond touching glass. Coming from Push 2, this has been the most glaring gap. Looks like Loopy Pro may close a lot of this gap actually. Meanwhile I’m giving up and getting a TR-6S to connect with the iPad on the go even though I already have the 8S for the home studio
MixBox includes an SSL-inspired Bus Compresor module, among lots else of course - awesome value when it’s been on sale!
Using multi-out with DigiStix2 works well for being able to process groups due to not having filters per pad/sample.
Thanks for the suggestion. I have MixBox on the desktop and their SSL emulation doesn't do it for me. I use both Cytomic's The Glue and SSL's own plugin and actually think The Glue is the better of the two. Cytomic also provides the Glue Compressor as a standard Ableton FX (the Ableton folk hired Andy Cytomic to create both the Glue Compressor and update all its filters based on Andys ace filter plugin The Drop). The Ableton version sounds identical but only provides 2x oversampling.
I hadn't realised that you can import user samples. Sure, it's a no-frills affair but it's better than nout!
The pads on the Launchpad Pro mk3 are incredibly finger drummer'ble. Far more so than the pads on the Push 2 (as great as the Push 2 pad are). Novation really nailed the feel on the mk3. Most definitely my favourite iPad accessory.
Despite it‘s name Maxima may give even more pleasing results with moderate, non-maximizing processing on track level, it’s not restricted to slamming the master bus.
And could possibly make that SSL thing obsolete because individual tracks are already shaped properly.
I do use Maxima for more moderate compression tasks in much the same way that I use Alteza for more than cavernous shimmer verb treatments. I use The Glue and SSL compressors on individual outputs as well as busses, and in both cases, they have a gentle way of toning and bringing out transients that's quite hard to match with other compression tools (or transient designers). I love Maxima but in this instance, it's not the droid I'm looking for.
This is actually pretty good!. I like the interface. Very playful and straightforward. But it even has multi samples (only 2) and the included sounds are very nice.
It’s obviously pretty simple, but hey, it’s supposed to be!,. Only spent 5 minutes playing with it and you can already tell the devs know what they’re doing.
This is not totally off-topic in this thread, seems to me like a lot of drum apps keep adding stuff without a solid foundation. You added a killer feature, but it’s buried in a horrible submenu.
Btw I’m up for a Battery style drum app. I’ve built some nice and complex kits in Drambo but even I am confused when I open them up a week later. Something like battery provides 99% of what you need in a drumkit, it’s well laid out and the layout makes sense.
From reading the description ‘MixBox CS’, has a specific
compressor modelled on the SSL style buss compressor.
‘Korvpressor from Klevgränd’, and ‘!Make Louder’, from Jens Guell sound great on drums,
If ‘Make Louder’, had proper state saving then I would use it all the time but
I’m figuring out a workaround for that using drambo and I have two physical compressor
which I also use of which one of them is an optical compressor.
Lots of fun.
Another one definitely worth mentioning is ‘Kompressor’, from SGA which is currently on public beta.
Yeah, I’ve come across that also.
Yet to dive into that one as I’ve been preoccupied with…. take a guess…
I went in when I got drm computer.
I like it a lot.
@jonmoore this master class may show you a thing or two you overlooked:
It already imports and exports to and from desktop?
If Battery and Massive were AU I probably never would have bought Maschine and the Komplete upgrade. They know what they are/aren’t doing.
ReFX’s Nerve and Linplug’s RMV are floating my boat at the moment. Obviously they are desktop but the conversation has included Battery which, for me, is second to RMV in drum sounds.