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RME doesn’t miss sonically, been using them since the fireface 800, but I wish they would’ve modernized it. Usb-c, etc. I’m also not in love with the price. Apogee with its dual path plugins, alloy preamp emulations, etc seem like a better deal, if you don't need some of the extra i/o
Best is relative. In this price range, Apogee is better. But there are also a lot of options out there that offer more for less.
AES/EBU and S/PDIF simultaneously, ADAT, Word clock, USB recording (stick, ssd, …), built in FX, a very nice iPad (and Desktop) App, MIDI, excellent audio- and built quality, DC-coupled Audio ports — And: Made in Germany with excellent support! So who offers more for less?
I'm thinking of replacing my 828es with the UCX II, direct USB recording is a big plus and the iPad controller app another nice "upgrade"
are you buying this in the US with US pricing? There are abot 1/2 price in the .eu and about 30$ to ship from places like thomman. They actually cost less to buy over seas and import than it is to buy motu locally.
i'm thinking of doing the same as well. 828es are still in short supply and you can basically sell them for what you bought them for right now.
Imo, they are the best (RME). There are better converters or preamps out there for sure, but they will cost much more (maybe not at the time of purchase, but down the line). It’s also subjective... 10 years ago I preferred Apogee converters and UA pres, but couldn’t afford neither of those. Got a babyface... clean pres, clean (a bit too clinical) ADA, stability... still works great across all platforms.
I’m sure they will ship new connectivity models when necessary, but they deliver better stability/latency over USB2 (USB digiface 32i/32o - my other RME) than others manage over thunderbolt for a 4i/4o interface. Never an issue or sync problem, can hook up with any ADA/pre over ADAT and enjoy the stability and flexibility.
In the meantime few generations of Apogee went down and became useless due to chasing Apple.
Not as sexy as the latest, hottest... these are workhorses and treated/supported as such.
I saw the title of this post as I wait for my new Motu M4 and had that heat flash associated with buyer's regret—until I saw what the Fireface goes for.... totally different leagues. But with 4x4, midi I/O, DC-Coupled outputs and class-compliant USB A/C, I think the Motu can hold some ground. I have no clue about what some of the outputs in the Fireface are supposed to do, anyway. An iOS app like the RME would be useful, though!
Yes, for us to get our hands on one would cost $1499. That is IMO too expensive for this interface. What in $ are you paying over there?
Im in the US as well. I just looked and the prices went up a bit. 1199. They were 899 a few months ago. (at thommanmusic.de)
Anytime i hear people talk about converters, I think of this....lol
Especially these days...
Though most iPad musicians don’t use outboard processors, barely even record anything.
Apogee comes up here often mostly because they are pretty, and they fit pretty iPads
The days where its acceptable to stream from youtube during your club set....
I bought a UFX+ a few months ago, my first RME interface since the FF400 came out. They’ve really done an amazing along TotalMix a lot easier to grasp for those new to it. Just a stellar interface all around. I was waiting for them to release one with USB-C for a long time, but they said on their forums that it wasn’t going to happen anytime soon.
Thinking about grabbing a Babyface too for when I travel, it’s just so convenient having TotalMix for weird routings and loop backs.
I agree, RME used to be the best bang for the buck with their interfaces. Where Apogee (Rosetta era) was 3k+, RME could give you access to that class of sound for 50-70% of that price. They’ve always (in my experience) been clinical, which was great early on when people usually had stand-alone preamps for color/vibe. Apogee was more sonically pleasing (arguably) due to them imparting a ‘musical’ (arguably) sound in their conversion. RME also won the driver battle and could make a native system ‘feel’ as stable as a DSP based system. No company, that I know of, outside of Avid, has caught up to RME on driver writing (IMO).
They’re great, but latency is/was always a thing with usb 2 whether it be from RME or Apogee. RME probably does this better overall, but Apogee probably has the better solution for Logic users. They (the companies) can try an pretend that Usb 2 is the answer, but to me, latency is a thing with any native system, you just learn to deal with it. Usb 2, IMO, is all about them having the backward compatibility, thus a bigger market.
Input/Playback ‘Blend’ knobs have been a more valuable feature on interfaces like the Motu M4 than I ever expected for iOS recording.
Can you cite examples? The Apogee Pro line is still as pro as ever. There’s not been a decline. The symphony (not desktop) line of preamps is some of the best pres I’ve heard, and in mic tests artists often prefer them over Pacifica’s, Avalon’s, etc.
The AD/DA on it is no exception.
If you mean, duet, one, hypemic etc that’s not their pro line at all, and meant to expand their market reach to hobbyists and prosumers who want the apogee name/engineering/form factor (think SSL 2)
Element and Ensemble are mid tier (project studio but are certainly good enough for all things Pro) I love the Element, it’s incredible, but it still isn’t Symphony (not talking about desktop)
That’s a fact. RME is tried & true. Not a eye catcher but an ear opener for sure.
An undeniable knock on Apogee is that they have a history of releasing pro products in beta. They had ‘roadmaps’ with the symphony 1, which took a year or so after release to complete via multi stepped firmware updates, Symphony Desktop (which still isn’t finished on the software side), and the Duet 3, which has no iOS app although it’s ‘promised’ at some point. Duet 3 also has sample rate issues at 96k across multiple iPads.
Apogee usually comes with growing pains for early adopters, and abandonment for late adopters. These really aren’t factors (that I know of) with RME.
I like the RME, just not at $1500
Also worth a mention. The recent $400 and below interfaces are punching 2-3-4x above their weight class, and are bus powered.
Are we talking about the same interface?
TotalMix by far is the best out there. I was hoping for more with the newer MOTU software, but being browser based kinda ruins it.
@ipadbeatmaking
yep. again..the price went up since i looked a few months ago:
@AlmostAnonymous so the trick is to order it in Europe and have them send it over?
yep. no sales tax. Customs tax is kinda hit or miss, but i'd say 95% of the time i dont get it with it with items under 2k$, and particularly if its for personal use. I do this for all .eu made products. And that shipping above is from germany to honolulu, so its about 1/2 that to the mainland.
Hmm, interesting. I already have a thomman account from when I lived in Europe…..
@AlmostAnonymous this is game changing information! Thanks for sharing!! Based on this I’m going to slightly change my opinion and say that at the original $899, the RME is more than worth it and the probably that best for iOS at that price point.
@ipadbeatmaking
Agree, Apogee is where highend really starts... and they deliver great experience. Didn’t mean to sound anti... My main beef I guess was, them ignoring big chunk of the market (not sure if they are still Apple exclusive, but that’s their target for sure). Yes, those consumer range offerings is what I meant... blown up, then abandoned. On the higher end they managed to get the best latency even through FireWire - another attempt from Apple to conquer... in audio world all these attempts went down pretty bad, most of them failed, not because something wrong with the tech, but because Apple is rushing to the next ‘best ever’. Apogee have been and will follow Apple in these runs, and the customer is just a number.
RME imo is the opposite... when I bought my babyface there was no iPad, yet audio interface support... when it became a thing they made it CC compatible, with operation from the front panel that puts today’s releases to shame, later they released TotalMix - still rare on iOS to this day. And the same is true for their whole line... imo that’s why they’re not rushing to new connectivity... no need, bandwidth is not an issue if optimised properly... and their customers are happy, because they don’t need to replace their interfaces for a marketing gimmick.
It doesnt exactly work the other way for .eu people cause they get hit with VAT.
this is why everyone in the eu is like "why do you use motu? it so expensive comapred to RME!"
I think that 899 was when it was announced and not available yet. Probably changed during avaiability..or chip shortage...who knows. or maybe the .EU is on to me
i never lived in .eu and had no issues for years. I even check out as guest. again, you have to be prepared if you do get hit with import duties, but its pretty small, and its been soooo rare i have
@ipadbeatmaking
you'll also want new monitors with that
On a side note, just be sure to check voltages. I havent run in to any issues yet, but sometimes they are different.
Lol 😂 This is THE cheat code of the year
The Motu M4 is a total win. Regret nothing with buying it. You made the right decision! Also, the Motu is just fine without an app. Everything is on-board (other than loopback on iOS, I think) Just use your DAW to configure all the routing and you’re golden.
@ipadbeatmaking , I think the comment about apogee going down was referring to the fact that many of the older interfaces are no longer supported on newer OS versions but RME is very good about supporting older hardware. I don’t have RME but from everything I’ve read and heard they write great drivers and are really solid.
I have a FireWire ensemble that I use with my Apollo as a standalone converter and it sounds great.
@0tolerance4silence gave a lot of clarity in his follow up post and I totally agree with the perspective & comparisons shared in it. We agree 💯
These things are true of RME. They are the best with drivers, stability, compatibility etc.
When Apogee is done with a product, brace yourself, because you can/will be unapologetically left behind. Computer upgrades, OS upgrades, device upgrades etc can be dangerous waters in the world of Apogee.
For a working studio, this isn’t the biggest deal, as most studios stay on an OS for years when stable. OS updates on the main HD are big no no without serious testing on a different startup disk. But for a person who likes updates and upgrades, or who’s in the wonky world of iOS, this is a serious problem.
Another fun fact for (American) studios, is that clients want to hear terms like Apogee, Pro Tools, Avid, Avalon, Neve, SSL….not RME, studio one, reaper, or even Logic Pro, despite capability/quality. Just like in visuals they want the ‘Red’ Camera, or the Arri…not the Blackmagic. Sounds vain, but it could be the difference in a booking. 🙄
My issue was the RME when priced at $1499. The Symphony Desktop got priced there ($1499) after a jump from $1299, which is annoying but kinda justifiable for the Symphony line. Beyond the A/D you’ve got DSP (far from UAD of course) touchscreen and multiple preamp emulations on board. Great tools for a musician who wants this to be their only device (preamp, etc).
This Fireface at the same price, just doesn’t sit right with me next to Apogee Symphony Desktop flavor/sound/features that I like MUCH better than RME. Symphony preamps, etc simply outclass the RME for the types of music I work in.
At the $899-$1199 @AlmostAnonymous showed however, I feel much better about the RME. I even think the Babyface is worth it at the Europe prices $690, I never liked it at $900+ US.
Nice! Those converters are over a decade (15+ years I think) old still getting the job done 👍