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I feel **a lot** better about my guitar playing after watching this video!
So I’ve been trying to start incorporating more guitar stuff into my iPadOS productions lately.
With that, and as my fellow guitar players here know very well, the guitar is a very versatile and rewarding instrument, but at the same time, it can be a very unforgiving one as well. Probably the most unforgiving instrument of all.
So it takes practice. Practice, practice, and more practice. Until years go by, many years, and you’re still practicing. Depending on what you want to do, you will have to practice to stay in shape. Along the way, you pick up a few skills, but you still have to practice them. The guitar does not play itself!
You can practice playing cover songs, and get good at playing cover songs (which is something I’ve never really wanted to do) and play someone else’s music perfectly if thats what you want to do. (For some reason, that’s what a lot of non-musician people expect when they see you playing guitar. “I don’t know that one. Do you know blahblahblah?”)
Or you can practice the actual guitar, music theory, scales, modes, improvisation, and get good at coming up with your own pieces of music. Sometimes you’ll have influences, yes, and it’ll show up in your playing. And sometimes you develop habits as well.
It takes a lot of practice to be able to improvise a lead guitar/solo guitar type track and be able to do it in a single take. This is how I’ve been recording lately on the iPad, and I know the method I’ve been using to record is what has pushed me into this “one take - whatever gets recorded is what you get” mentality.
I’ve been using AUM’s file recording system, or if I’m using Drambo for the host, I’ll even do a screen recording of myself playing the guitar part live along with what’s going on in Drambo. This is usually why my guitar recordings end up being a “one take” thing.
Guitar TRACKING is a term I’ve been hearing a lot, and as you’ll see Tim Pierce explaining in the video, even someone as experienced as he, when improvising a piece, can screw up parts regularly. So I don’t feel so bad now with my “one take” improv guitar tracks!
I do however want to start getting into this “tracking” thing with the guitar, and I do understand it takes using a DAW to be able to punch in and punch out, to be able to go back and fix things, fixing mistakes, and becoming a better producer overall in the end.
Talk to me about this “guitar tracking” thing guys. In the meantime, I have one of my “one take”, one shot guitar recordings for your review, which I’ll post in this thread shortly.
Comments
Watching this now. The opening solo is technically impressive, but it’s everything I don’t like about guitar. Great vid though!
One thing I’ve realized recently is that I don’t need to push my technical chops, or get super inventive when playing with others, or when recording. The other musician doesn’t know I’ve played that same thing a zillion times at home. To them it might sound fresh and interesting.
I save the nutso stuff for when I’m alone. Maybe the mistakes suggest another direction. I experiment, I learn other people’s songs, and I steal their ideas. Then it all becomes natural and semi automatic, and I have new tricks for the next session.
I do something somewhat similar. I never write out a solo, I don’t really like the concept because I prefer the spontaneity because i think it has more soul and it’s more genuine. He does sort of a macrocosm of what I do, I’ll have my chords for a part recorded using a looper and then jam on that for upwards to an hour while recording the lead and improvising everything and then go back through it and splice out the gems to put into the track. Often times there’s very little I want to cut but I just have to cos I shouldn’t be making 40 minute songs.
Improvising is intimidating as hell at first but gets easier as it becomes second nature. It’s probably not everyone’s cup of tea but I got really good at improvising by playing along with some of the very long Grateful Dead jams and at first just following along with Jerry and then I started being able to do my own thing over the jams and was just able to take off running with it. I like the Dead because it’s the jazz concept but not as complex for a beginner and now I can improvise along with jazz just as well.
Here’s one I recorded earlier today (as promised), complete with mistakes and “finger fatigue”…
I often will just jam over my songs for 30-60 minutes improvising new ideas while recording the lot of it. I personally LIKE to go back and re-edit all that stuff into something more cohesive in the DAW. I don't go to crazy either with fixing the odd slightly bum note here and there, but I'll string together bars of good material to make a longer phrase if I need to.
I do love Ableton Live for this kind of thing, warping makes it really easy if you just want to fix the timing of the odd note here and there.
Best advice I can give is don't go too crazy editing your performances though, it's all too easy to suck the life and feel out of them too.
David Gilmour recorded multiple takes of the solo for Comfortably Numb, and then just used the faders to mix the best bits together:
“I banged out five or six solos,” Gilmour says. “From there I just followed my usual procedure, which is to listen back to each solo and make a chart, noting which bits are good. Then, by following the chart, I create one great composite solo by whipping one fader up, then another fader, jumping from phrase to phrase until everything flows together. That’s the way we did it on ‘Comfortably Numb.’”
http://rockandrollgarage.com/david-gilmour-reveals-how-he-made-the-solo-for-comfortably-numb/
Great thread @Edward_Alexander … if you accept GeoShred as a Guitar substitute I’m in the same boat. I never edit mistakes, just have another go till I’m happy. Don’t have a problem trying to play other peoples tunes but completely agree that practice, practice , practice is the key. It’s funny how my best solos are the ones that I’m not recording 😊 Lovely track by the way.
I hear ya.
It feels good to be playing guitar regularly again.
Yup, still practicing.
I maintain the ability to sight read chords for this purpose only.
I still occasionally get calls for last minute gigs without rehearsals
and I have to go through the chord charts before the gig.
It's a good skill to have.
This is what I do either on guitar or keys and more recently the LP X.
The LP X is a strange instrument though a lot of fun.
Agreed.
I used to do guitar tracking a lot back in the day but over
the past decade or more I generally aim to get the take
in one go and almost always improv'd for the most part.
Every musician requires practice even if you know the piece
inside out, unless you warm up properly you will make mistakes.
>
As a recording artist learning how to track properly is essential.
Good technique can speed up your workflow no end.
Get a good sound.
Loop section.
Practice phrases.
Touch lips, kiss the sky and hit record.
Three takes.
Listen back to each one.
Mute the sections you don't like.
Listen to it again.
Choose the "nicest" phrases.
Comp.
Forgot about it and mix the rest of the track.
Recently, I've been trying to get rid of decades-old bad habits -- and have been listening with interest to musicians I admire talking about their process -- and two things have jumped out at me that I used to think I did but now realize I didn't -- and which make loads of difference:
learn how to play so slowly that you can stop/correct a mistake as its happening (this might be one-eighth the tempo I think I can play at) AND play musically at that tempo [I think I am finally getting the hang of being able to slow waaaaaay down and still hear it as music]
hearing what I am going to play in my mind a split second before the fingers play. What I find is that if I really hear it in my head (whether improvising or playing something composed), I am much less likely to flub than if play without really focusing on hearing the sound in my head
These are advice I heard as a kid and paid lip service to. Also closing one's eyes sometimes without instrument in hand and hearing lines is helpful too for developing that inner ear.
Sometimes (too rarely) when improvising, I hear the notes before I play them. That’s usually when some magic happens.
Ha! This is right. If I try to re-record anything it never sounds as good. In the past, I’ve used the part from Voice Memos because I couldn’t repeat it and make it as good.
Before I learnt how to solo on guitar I started singing
the notes because the notes are always there.
I always sing in my minds ear and play the notes.
Yeah, that's why I got Koala Sampler.
Hold a pad, sing a note or phrase and save for later.
One of these days, I'm gonna actually learn how to use the takes feature(s) in Ableton Live.
I usually record my take on one track until I mess up. Then record another take on a different track, starting from where I messed up in the timeline.
Yeah...so important. I wish that I had really gotten this when it was first explained to me when I was a kid.
@mistercharlie wrote: "Sometimes (too rarely) when improvising, I hear the notes before I play them. That’s usually when some magic happens."
A great tip that someone gave me that took me 30 years before I took literally enough to actually do it was to take a few minutes a day where you sing to yourself (either out loud or with your mind's voice/ear) and then visualize playing it then picking up your instrument and playing it -- and if you don't find the notes right away take your time finding them. If you do it a few minutes a day pretty much every day. Some people are good at this right away and some people are terrible at it -- but no matter how bad you are at it (I was terrible when I started), you will find that if you stick with it that you get pretty good at it. One of the key elements is giving your full attention to it -- because your brain is a black box and will make all kinds of connections it can make use of if you give it your full attention.
Along the same lines he'd say, try trading licks with your self by singing a few notes and then playing them.
He also suggested that whenever you listen to music that you spend some of the time, listening and imagining playing it.
I think these are things that will help anyone for whom they aren't the natural course of things -- even if you only do it a few minutes per day (but doing 'em for real with full attention).
I do this all the time hence why I mentioned
singing solos before I learnt how to solo.
Play the first note and sing it simultaneously.
Practice with do-re-me if you haven't done it before.
A more complex example would be George Benson
when he solo's and sings the notes at the same time.
Agreed.
Pick up the instrument and play along with it.
That's the old school way.
All very good advice.
This is the only remaining ticket I have from one of the last shows my band played in Deep Ellum (one of Dallas's big music club circuits) a little over 30 years ago. Back then I played lead, sang, and wrote about half the songs we played. Únfortunately, thirty years of working in a manufacturing plant have taken their toll on my hands. I can only play for a short while without pain anymore. I was no virtuoso back then, but whenever the stage fright lifted and I could get in the zone I had a few moments I could be proud of. Most of the time I had the majority of my solo's mapped out with a few measures to improvise. As scary as those few measures were, that's where the magic was. At this point I'm grateful for apps like Riffler and Geoshred for giving me back some semblance of guitar playing. I know the kind of practice it would take to get back to where I was, and even if I had the time my hands just aren't up to the task anymore. Still, once in a while I can't fight the urge and I play a few bars until I have to put the guitar down. If I could go back and give myself advice, I would tell myself to practice what you suck at, and take better care of your hands.
Thats pretty much sums up my method as well for music production. Get a large number of variations out quickly and find the "best" of each one for the final.
,Wow! Just checking in on this thread from work and there’s a ton of posts! I’ll be reading everyone’s posts and hope to respond to a few when I get home.
It’s good to hear that Dave Gilmour takes that approach, as I often do that, or at least I have done that ever since I’ve had the luxury of enough tracks on a computer.
I’ll play a few versions of solos and comp them into one good one, same as I do with vocal takes or sax solos. Some instruments it’s easy to get a good single take after a few attempts (piano or harmonica usually), but some just lend themselves to building a track that is a ‘best of’ from multiple run throughs.
I’ve even lifted small pieces of solos out of one solo to replace an errant note or two from an otherwise good solo. As long as I cut accurately it usually works out pretty well.
One take solos are all the rage but many of your favorite solos were comped. I’m more in the Gilmour camp when it comes to actually putting down a solo in a project. And I like to record in pieces rather than whole takes. Even GarageBand makes it so easy, with its straightforward punch-in and count-in feature, to record pieces of solos or rhythm tracks on the same track, you don’t need to record an entire solo over and over or have 6 separate tracks of takes. GB and other DAWs that have the punch-in/count-in features are perfect for this type of tracking. I was amazed the first time I recorded one track in pieces and didn’t have to do any patching or fixing, it gets spliced together perfectly glitch free all on its own.
So rather than worrying about one long perfect guitar take, I get inspired piece by piece to go anywhere I want and this end up regret free. I’m an average guitarist but a perfectionist, so this approach works for me.
If you think the guitar is unforgiving try learning the violin…
I saw your post earlier as I was walking out the door (yesterday) headed to work. My initial thought was to ask you what it was about it that you didn’t like, but after thinking about it tonight (last night) I realize that it doesn’t matter! Everyone has their different tastes.
This is so true. Playing with other people is something I so miss! And if you’re playing with other people who actually have a little talent, it can rub off on you, then you start being able to “carry” each other. You start to learn from each other, and you learn what to expect from your bandmate’s musical abilities, and them from you. Playing with other like-minded musicians can often take a lot of pressure off of a single player.
An example of this would be (and I’m just thinking out loud here) like Joe Satriani performing on stage at one of his shows. All eyes are on him and everyone’s focused on what he’s doing, versus one of the G3 concerts where he’s got himself, Steve Vai, John Petrucci, Guthrie Goven, and Tony Mcalpine (for example) all on stage trading licks. It wouldn’t matter as much if one of them screwed up a line as it would if they had been by themselves.
And I hear you about not needing to push your chops and be inventive while playing with others. Usually, keeping things simple is the best way to go when you’re playing with a band. You stick to a set list, and you practice as a band what you had planned. You save all the inventive stuff for times when you practice alone. Then, depending on the band, or who you’re playing with, slowly introduce these new ideas and licks when the band is ready to work on new ideas as a whole.
I’d love to hear some examples of your jazz and “GD Jazz” improvs!
Yes! And that’s the thing with a live improv versus an edited production. Don’t want to lose the feeling!
I have Ableton Live on my Windows PC, but it’s really a “Gaming PC” which has a lot of fans running and stuff, plus I’ve started disliking sitting at the desk for any length of time. I’m 52 and things start hurting, like my heavy ass Les Paul Custom that starts cutting off the circulation to my leg. Then I’ll try standing with a strap and soon realize that the PC is just too noisy to try and record anything anyway. There’s always some kind of noise in the lines, maybe coming from standing too close to the display/monitor? I’m actually now considering either a MacBook, or a nice windows tablet (like a Surface?) that I can run Ableton on, nice and quietly.
The iPad and iPadOS has been a godsend in this regard. Recording guitar (for me anyway) finally sounds great, and I can finally record from wherever I find myself comfortable.
I DO own Cubasis 3 on the ipad, so I may start using that.
You know, I’ve read this before, and I really like this idea! I think I’m going to have to try this type of thing with Cubasis 3. I know I can automate the faders on the mixer already, so I think it’s just a matter of me trying to get in the habit of actually using a DAW instead of automatically reaching for AUM or Drambo every time.
I’m working my way down the list of posts guys. This is why I love these forums! Such a wealth of information, and REAL input from other musicians. You guys are great!
Thanks Tony! I think you’re the only one that actually said anything about my track, so I appreciate that! Thank you for having a listen!
Don’t get me wrong about cover tunes. I spent many years (way back in the day) playing cover tunes with a band, actually a couple bands, and they're a great way to learn, and a great way to learn how to play with others, as the music has already been written. All you have to do is worry about performing and playing the part(s).
I was the guy in the band though, that was always asking “can we work on our originals now?” But as many of you guys know, not a lot of people want to hear those originals, they want to hear Van Halen and Motley Crue 😂
Oh and I hear you about not recording when you’re playing your most amazing stuff. I’ve lost so many… may those riffs Rest In Peace! lol
As a self taught guitar player,i used to play all day long along vinyls and cassettes.
That has really forged my playing and my way of thinking about it.
I don't like laborious things,so,i almost always record in one take,even if not perfect.
Sure,it will depend on what i'm working on,but generally speaking,i'm a one take guy.
I've never built a solo as Gilmour,which is definitely one of my faves,could do it.
I can't work this way😉.
The most important thing is : whatever your method,if it works,it works😉.
Don't change anything.
✌️
Haha! Amen brother! I’m not gonna quote your whole post, but I definitely appreciate you taking the time to leave a detailed and thoughtful reply!
I’m guilty of letting guitar go for some years, where it just didn’t fit. (I wasn’t making music or even thinking about making music. I was busy being married and having kids, and I put a lot of time into other things like work, and I was really big into automotive stuff and racing etc) but back in the 80’s and probably half of the 90’s I practiced guitar every day! Played in a few different bands, one was a “Heavy Metal” band where we played things like Iron Maiden and Judas Priest, and another that was more of a Pop-rock top40 type band. (Think The Eagles, Phil Collins, The Cars and Journey)
I wanted to play things that were more of a progressive rock style, like Rush or Pink Floyd, and guitar centric instrumental type stuff like Satriani or Vai’s stuff. Finding people to play with is impossible nowadays it seems. I have a busy work schedule for one, and if the people you’re trying to get together with to jam aren’t really good enough, a lot of time ends up being wasted.
So now, and I think the pandemic is really what kicked into gear, I think I’m more content being a “one man band” type of thing these days, and finally being able to make time for guitar again! I feel like I’m dusting off some of these old guitar skills and learning new ones! I’ve said it before on here, but I feel like just the last couple of years on the iPad, with all of these amazing apps and musical tools we now have, that I’ve learned SO much more about music, music theory, beats, measures, mixing, mastering (you get the idea) than I ever did in over 35 years playing the guitar! (minus the years I neglected it).
I feel like I’m going back into battle, with my Axe, and armed with a ton more knowledge! 🤘
Yes! This is great! I’ve also read recently (or saw it on a YT video) that “if you can play it slow, you can play it fast” and that kinda clicked with me somehow.
I’ve been trying to practice with a metronome lately. I will admit I tend to start getting bored playing real slow. And that’s another bad habit I have, is to rush through things. It doesn’t matter what it is, I speed to and from work, I rush through my meals, sometimes I think without even chewing, and I rush through pieces of music. I really need to work on this!
Talking about stuff in your head though, I’ve come up with some of the best licks while letting my backing play and listening in the shower. I’ll start humming/singing out the guitar parts, then of course I’ll have to get out of the shower, dry off and grab a guitar and record it before I forget it.
I have noticed a bunch of potential just waiting here for the inspiration with Koala.