Swam Solo Woodwinds for iOS released - Bansuri Bass Flute Ambient Demo and Giveaway

Gavinski

@ambrosiajam said:

@espiegel123 said:
Has anyone tried using something like FAC Envolver to map a mic to a MIDI cc to use for expression and growling vocally to generate expression ccs for this?

Damn that’s a good idea lol

Love this idea

Gavinski

@RajahP said:

@Poppadocrock said:

@espiegel123 said:

@ashh said:

@RajahP said:
IMPORTANT: All SWAM instruments REQUIRE a MIDI continuous expression controller, (expression pedal, breath controller, MPE device, wind controller, etc.). MIDI note-on velocity is not enough. Think of it like this: a sax player must blow to be expressive; merely fingering the keys is insufficient.

Can Sequencers like StepPolyArp make these ‘sing’, for non players like me?

Well, it says not in your quote. Afaia, the point of these instruments is that you use MPE to play them.

I think you are misinterpreting the quote. They don’t say MPE is required. They also continuous expression controllers. I think the point they are making is that you need a continuous controller in order to play them as intended. A mod wheel or any cc would suffice I believe.

I believe you are correct. I thing the caps threw me off. Gotcha. yea that’s what I do when I sequence them I cc the articulations.

Seems there is a market for midi files to drive these instruments.. We do have Midi players and editors which we did not have little over a year ago.. on IOS..

Definitely. Really want to see people making generative mpe midi apps on iOS! @cem_olcay @blueveek

JudasZimmerman

@espiegel123 said:
Has anyone tried using something like FAC Envolver to map a mic to a MIDI cc to use for expression and growling vocally to generate expression ccs for this?

I just tested, that works just fine. With default settings just set Envolver to output CC#11 and adjust threshold, depth etc to taste.

I also tested using A2M to generate notes from the same input, but I couldn't get consistent results from that. I'm probably doing it wrong. But it should be possible to use voice for expression, and then having hands and feet free to play keyboards + do the other possible CCs (vibrato, growl, mutes..).

wingwizard

@ehehehe said:
I do not have much experience with flutes, and the performers in the official vids are obviously great players. But the sound and articulations place these smack dab in the middle of an uncanny valley, not real, not fake. Imagine they would sound cheap in an organic piece, in electronic music a sample of a real flute would do the job. A solo with these just sounds.. wrong. To me. But the controllers seem cool, hope they make one that's not based on traditional scales for not too much money soon.

They mostly sound infinitely superior to sampled libraries but you have to be a good musician. Electronic music isn’t brimming with them. But if you’re not a good player they will definitely sound worse than samples.

Edit: I use to use roli light pads and the swam clarinet is hands down the best non acoustic instrument, including synths Ive ever played.

Paulo164

@Spud said:
Flutter is disabled in the sax betas - is this the case for the final versions too? It seems like this would be one of the important basic controls to have, and is included in the Geosax version.

Yes, the formant also is disabled in the beta. But in the Audio Modeling email I received yesterday, the screen capture of the sax parameters suggests that the formant is enabled. Another screen capture suggests also that both flutter and formant are performable :

Blipsford_Baubie

I don’t mean to be Captain Obvious, but I imagine using GeoShred would be the fastest way to get articulate results without fiddling with routing cc’s and the sort.

I realized yesterday that GS and SWAM are both from the same developers, so I fired up GS after a long hiatus and see that you can unlock these solo woodwinds via browsing the GS patches. I haven’t bought any yet, but I imagine they’re already cleverly patched for optimal performance for use with GS.

espiegel123

@Blipsford_Baubie said:

........

I realized yesterday that GS and SWAM are both from the same developers, so I fired up GS after a long hiatus and see that you can unlock these solo woodwinds via browsing the GS patches. I haven’t bought any yet, but I imagine they’re already cleverly patched for optimal performance for use with GS.

GS and SWAM are from different developers. MoForte are the GS developers and worked out a deal with AudioModeling (who are the developers of SWAM) to be able to include some special-for-GS versions of some SWAM plugins as IAPs.

Blipsford_Baubie

@espiegel123 said:

@Blipsford_Baubie said:

........

I realized yesterday that GS and SWAM are both from the same developers, so I fired up GS after a long hiatus and see that you can unlock these solo woodwinds via browsing the GS patches. I haven’t bought any yet, but I imagine they’re already cleverly patched for optimal performance for use with GS.

GS and SWAM are from different developers. MoForte are the GS developers and worked out a deal with AudioModeling (who are the developers of SWAM) to be able to include some special-for-GS versions of some SWAM plugins as IAPs.

Ah, thanks for clarifying!

Spud

@Paulo164 said:

@Spud said:
Flutter is disabled in the sax betas - is this the case for the final versions too? It seems like this would be one of the important basic controls to have, and is included in the Geosax version.

Yes, the formant also is disabled in the beta. But in the Audio Modeling email I received yesterday, the screen capture of the sax parameters suggests that the formant is enabled. Another screen capture suggests also that both flutter and formant are performable :

Great, thanks! I'm still deciding whether to just stick with the Geosax or grab this. It is easier to work with the CC assignments in these versions.

Gavinski

@Blipsford_Baubie said:

@espiegel123 said:

@Blipsford_Baubie said:

........

I realized yesterday that GS and SWAM are both from the same developers, so I fired up GS after a long hiatus and see that you can unlock these solo woodwinds via browsing the GS patches. I haven’t bought any yet, but I imagine they’re already cleverly patched for optimal performance for use with GS.

GS and SWAM are from different developers. MoForte are the GS developers and worked out a deal with AudioModeling (who are the developers of SWAM) to be able to include some special-for-GS versions of some SWAM plugins as IAPs.

Ah, thanks for clarifying!

But yes, geoshred is a great controller for these. In one of the yt vids I did on geo I looked at how to set up geo to control the swam apps, it wasn't quite as intuitive as it should have been but I think I remember the geo devs maybe later made some special presets for using geo to control swam apps. My own personal preference would be to buy the swam apps on discount price and use geoshred to control them rather than buying the actual geo instruments themselves, which are more limited in expression. Personal preference. The geo IAPs can still sound great for sure tho and geoshred is an excellent controller. But yeah, a lot of people who are actual keyboard players may prefer to use a regular midi keyboard with mod wheel and foot pedal as the audio Modeling guys themselves do, rather than using a touch screen with no tactile boundary between keys etc. Touch screen allows for very fast playing, custom scales etc tho.... Pros and cons

cphollis

Getting the most out of these requires two chunks of time if you're going to actually play them vs automate. One is of course getting CC's set up, and figuring out which controllers make sense for which aspects. Having an X Y Z pad controller is nice. The other aspect is learning to "play" using keyboard and controller, with phrasing and gestures that sound pleasing. That can take a while, but is very rewarding. Even as a proficient keys player, it took a while, and it's different for each instrument.

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@Blipsford_Baubie said:
I don’t mean to be Captain Obvious, but I imagine using GeoShred would be the fastest way to get articulate results without fiddling with routing cc’s and the sort.

GS has a patch for controlling swam so it’s quick to get going. Plus you have all the custom scales and tunings.

That said, I often use Velocity kb to control swam. It takes a little setup, but works great. No custom intonation though, except in your fingers.

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@cphollis said:
Getting the most out of these requires two chunks of time if you're going to actually play them vs automate. One is of course getting CC's set up, and figuring out which controllers make sense for which aspects.

For the screentar controllers, I set both flutter and growl to after touch. That works pretty well on all the brass models.

Gavinski

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr what is 'screentar' - touch screen guitar? Ie geo?

Gavinski

Still waiting for codes from Audio Modeling, unfortunately, as it looks like all youtubers are, so seems you guys will have to wait for demos - as great as Redsky Lullaby demo was, I think it was just using the apps that were in beta. Things like the bass flute are just wonderful, but were not included in beta unfortunately!

ErrkaPetti

Yet another pack of wonderful SWAM apps!

Almost every Woodwind app is recommended here!
Sounds great and wonderful!

Spud

@Paulo164 said:

@Spud said:
Flutter is disabled in the sax betas - is this the case for the final versions too? It seems like this would be one of the important basic controls to have, and is included in the Geosax version.

Yes, the formant also is disabled in the beta. But in the Audio Modeling email I received yesterday, the screen capture of the sax parameters suggests that the formant is enabled. Another screen capture suggests also that both flutter and formant are performable

The devs have just confirmed that flutter is in fact not available in the standard iPad versions. That and other options will be IAPs down the track.

Gavinski

@Spud said:

@Paulo164 said:

@Spud said:
Flutter is disabled in the sax betas - is this the case for the final versions too? It seems like this would be one of the important basic controls to have, and is included in the Geosax version.

Yes, the formant also is disabled in the beta. But in the Audio Modeling email I received yesterday, the screen capture of the sax parameters suggests that the formant is enabled. Another screen capture suggests also that both flutter and formant are performable

The devs have just confirmed that flutter is in fact not available in the standard iPad versions. That and other options will be IAPs down the track.

Disappointing to hear. Still no IAPs for the apps that have already been released

Paulo164

@Gavinski said:

@Spud said:

@Paulo164 said:

@Spud said:
Flutter is disabled in the sax betas - is this the case for the final versions too? It seems like this would be one of the important basic controls to have, and is included in the Geosax version.

Yes, the formant also is disabled in the beta. But in the Audio Modeling email I received yesterday, the screen capture of the sax parameters suggests that the formant is enabled. Another screen capture suggests also that both flutter and formant are performable

The devs have just confirmed that flutter is in fact not available in the standard iPad versions. That and other options will be IAPs down the track.

Disappointing to hear. Still no IAPs for the apps that have already been released

Yeah, sad. Flutter is really cool for me in GeoSwam. With the sax, I use it with high expression values and it adds something special inachievable without it. Growl is very cool at first but should not be overused whereas flutter is more subtle and can be used for different feelings.

We will see the price to unlock these options once it will be possible (when ?).

oat_phipps

So what’s the best sax? I’m gonna take the plunge on one and see what I can do with a mod wheel and aftertouch, and if that’s not so great, use Geoshred I guess.

Of course my default is to go tenor sax but Poppa in another thread said it was a bit too growly for him compared to the soprano, and that he hadn’t tried the alto one.

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@Gavinski said:
@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr what is 'screentar' - touch screen guitar? Ie geo?

It's my term for any glass screen expressive touch controller. They're often tuned like a string instrument, such as GeoShred or Velocity KB, but I also include Animoog, Samplr, TC-11 and others that don't fit the string paradigm. But I think the GS/Velocity KB model is a new and distinct instrument of its own, to the extent that controller ergonomics shape a musical language.

Gavinski

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@Gavinski said:
@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr what is 'screentar' - touch screen guitar? Ie geo?

It's my term for any glass screen expressive touch controller. They're often tuned like a string instrument, such as GeoShred or Velocity KB, but I also include Animoog, Samplr, TC-11 and others that don't fit the string paradigm. But I think the GS/Velocity KB model is a new and distinct instrument of its own, to the extent that controller ergonomics shape a musical language.

Nice term. I finally got my codes by the way and can't wait to check these out and get one or two vids up.

Gavinski

Also, I think it is time I got tc 11, keep hearing good things about it

mjcouche

Not sure if mentioned but bundles are out.

SpartanClownTide

The locked parameters is a bit crap. The silly thing being they're all there and fully usable, they can be mapped on the mapping table page. Possibly an oversight on the devs part, if an update properly disables them I'm not going to be happy. I'd rather they'd just charge what they thought they needed to and give the full version.

That said, in every other regard, absolutely stunning.

I went for the alto sax after a few videos, they all sound great but that one just hits me hard.

ChiffonDoux

@Gavinski said:.

Nice term. I finally got my codes by the way and can't wait to check these out and get one or two vids up.

So happy to read this Gavinski. I had my first SWAM instrument thanks to you, I was the happy winner of my beloved Flugelhorn.

Since then, and based on your instructive videos, I have bought three-quarters of all the other instruments. Duh!...

I waited impatiently for the Woodwinds instruments (particularly the bass clarinet, bass flute, and soprano and baritone sax) praying that Gav’ would do them so much honor
Thanks in advance ! 🙏

Montreal_Music

I was impressed by the instruments from AcousticSamples. Is it the same quality as SWAM? I did not put a lot of time researshing the difference between the 2, but what is the general consensus?

Spud

@SpartanClownTide said:
The locked parameters is a bit crap. The silly thing being they're all there and fully usable, they can be mapped on the mapping table page.

Oh you are right! I missed this. Thanks for the tip!

Gavinski

@SpartanClownTide said:
The locked parameters is a bit crap. The silly thing being they're all there and fully usable, they can be mapped on the MIDI mapping page, inputs just don't show up on the general UI pages. Possibly an oversight on the devs part, if an update properly disables them I'm not going to be happy. I'd rather they'd just charge what they thought they needed to and give the full version.

That said, in every other regard, absolutely stunning.

I went for the alto sax after a few videos, they all sound great but that one just hits me hard.

That could not be disabled without wrecking people's ability to share presets between desktop and iOS so I think that backdoor will remain. It's kind of a power user thing anyway, unfortunately, right? The average person doing iOS music doesn't mess much with midi mapping. > @ChiffonDoux said:

@Gavinski said:.

Nice term. I finally got my codes by the way and can't wait to check these out and get one or two vids up.

So happy to read this Gavinski. I had my first SWAM instrument thanks to you, I was the happy winner of my beloved Flugelhorn.

Since then, and based on your instructive videos, I have bought three-quarters of all the other instruments. Duh!...

I waited impatiently for the Woodwinds instruments (particularly the bass clarinet, bass flute, and soprano and baritone sax) praying that Gav’ would do them so much honor
Thanks in advance ! 🙏

Ah, great to hear! Sorry for your wallet, but what a joy these are

wingwizard

@Gavinski said:

@SpartanClownTide said:
The locked parameters is a bit crap. The silly thing being they're all there and fully usable, they can be mapped on the MIDI mapping page, inputs just don't show up on the general UI pages. Possibly an oversight on the devs part, if an update properly disables them I'm not going to be happy. I'd rather they'd just charge what they thought they needed to and give the full version.

That said, in every other regard, absolutely stunning.

I went for the alto sax after a few videos, they all sound great but that one just hits me hard.

That could not be disabled without wrecking people's ability to share presets between desktop and iOS so I think that backdoor will remain. It's kind of a power user thing anyway, unfortunately, right? The average person doing iOS music doesn't mess much with midi mapping. > @ChiffonDoux said:

@Gavinski said:.

Nice term. I finally got my codes by the way and can't wait to check these out and get one or two vids up.

So happy to read this Gavinski. I had my first SWAM instrument thanks to you, I was the happy winner of my beloved Flugelhorn.

Since then, and based on your instructive videos, I have bought three-quarters of all the other instruments. Duh!...

I waited impatiently for the Woodwinds instruments (particularly the bass clarinet, bass flute, and soprano and baritone sax) praying that Gav’ would do them so much honor
Thanks in advance ! 🙏

Ah, great to hear! Sorry for your wallet, but what a joy these are

The average person making music on iOS doesn’t spend loads on swam stuff. But the average musician on iOS who buys swam is very much into midi mapping imo