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Using NFT's for buying/reselling auv3's....

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Comments

  • @NeuM said:

    @richardyot said:

    @NeuM said:

    @richardyot said:
    Sorry @krassmann but that argument is ridiculous. A blockchain is nothing but a database. If Apple goes bankrupt, what does app ownership even entail? How can you own an app on the blockchain if the parent company that makes the hardware no longer exists?

    The blockchain is a database, nothing more - it does not confer any special legal rights, it does not assign ownership of anything in any legal sense. Just because there is an entry on a ledger does not mean that the law recognises it as such. I can make a spreadsheet conferring ownership of my apps and it would have as much legal weight as an NFT.

    Fortunately, all of your criticisms have been answered… over the past decade of development.

    https://blockgeeks.com/guides/blockchain-consensus/

    I'm not sure if reading comprehension is your strong point. My criticism is that a centralised database is always faster, more efficient, and cheaper to run than a blockchain. Points that the article you linked completely fail to address.

    No doubt in your reply you will move the goalposts, but just to stay on topic I will reiterate: a centralised database is orders of magnitude faster, cheaper and more efficient than the blockchain. Adress that argument by all means, but if you come back with some irrelevant tangent (as you are prone to doing) I will ignore you.

    I’m more than happy to block you now, Richard. You are quite a prick.

    Ooooh, I thought you didn't approve of personal attacks?

  • edited December 2021

    Wow...that didn't take long:

    The biggest issue facing the blockchain at the moment is the number of simultaneous transactions which can occur...so it hasn't been able to work at Scale. I know Solana is promising to achieve that scale...but I believe that it is a Centralized Blockchain...which makes me wonder if it's any better than what we have today...but hey, not here to shill that token :)

  • @echoopera said:
    Wow...that didn't take long:

    The biggest issue facing the blockchain at the moment is the number of simultaneous transactions which can occur...so it hasn't been able to work at Scale. I know Solano is promising to achieve that scale...but I believe that it is a Centralized Blockchain...which makes me wonder if it's any better than what we have today...but hey, not here to shill that token :)

    Well, the Lightning network is starting to roll out on Ethereum and other ETH-centric cryptos have jumped on it with some success.

  • @NeuM said:

    @richardyot said:
    Sorry @krassmann but that argument is ridiculous. A blockchain is nothing but a database. If Apple goes bankrupt, what does app ownership even entail? How can you own an app on the blockchain if the parent company that makes the hardware no longer exists?

    The blockchain is a database, nothing more - it does not confer any special legal rights, it does not assign ownership of anything in any legal sense. Just because there is an entry on a ledger does not mean that the law recognises it as such. I can make a spreadsheet conferring ownership of my apps and it would have as much legal weight as an NFT.

    Fortunately, all of your criticisms have been answered… over the past decade of development.

    https://blockgeeks.com/guides/blockchain-consensus/

    That article doesn't really address the legal problems. Which is something blockchain types usually try to dodge, presumably because they don't have a good answer.

  • edited December 2021

    @cian said:

    @NeuM said:

    @richardyot said:
    Sorry @krassmann but that argument is ridiculous. A blockchain is nothing but a database. If Apple goes bankrupt, what does app ownership even entail? How can you own an app on the blockchain if the parent company that makes the hardware no longer exists?

    The blockchain is a database, nothing more - it does not confer any special legal rights, it does not assign ownership of anything in any legal sense. Just because there is an entry on a ledger does not mean that the law recognises it as such. I can make a spreadsheet conferring ownership of my apps and it would have as much legal weight as an NFT.

    Fortunately, all of your criticisms have been answered… over the past decade of development.

    https://blockgeeks.com/guides/blockchain-consensus/

    That article doesn't really address the legal problems. Which is something blockchain types usually try to dodge, presumably because they don't have a good answer.

    The consensus mechanism provides the proof. If someone “steals” a GIF, they have only stolen an image (or an audio file, or what have you). The value of the piece is connected to the public record. People have been paying millions for the collectible aspect of NFTs and I’m sure the novelty of it all plays a part, but NFTs are also going to be things like concert tickets, movie tickets, limited editions issued by artists and celebrities. This is all just getting started and the public record is what gives a digital good its value.

  • Where I see blockchains as useful in the future is in the area of manufacturing and supply chain management. A manufacturer will perhaps use a blockchain to issue tokens (with or without smart contracts) which represent an item in some way that ties the token to the item. In a meek and mild way this would simply be a checksum in the token which corresponds to a qr code on the label of the item, or some such scheme. Now the path of the item can be traced through the supply chain, if the constituent parts or ingredients also follow a similar scheme, and on the other side of the supply chain, the customer gets a receipt which also opens up this information, which lives on if they sell the item to someone else, etc.

    This is, as far as I’m concerned, what NFTs always were about, not the ludicrous tulip🌷mania they are now where the token itself is somehow the thing of value. They are simply a token, like a fraction of an ETH or ICP or BTC, except unlike those, they’re not interchangeable like money, they represent a unique thing instead. That’s all. They’re effectively the receipt or swing tag. That’s all.

    Obviously this meek and mild rendition is easily subverted, counterfeiters would swap the goods and not the label, or other naughty actions, so other means have to be laid on top to ensure that the token actually does point to what it purports to, and that that thing is the genuine thing and not some counterfeit thing introduced into the supply chain by naughty people. But if those points are addressed, I see blockchains as a superb ingredient in supply chain management. The blockchain isn’t centralised, it’d be distributed, but only really distributed as far as the supply chain goes, not the consumers, not necessarily millions of nodes worldwide (otherwise it’d be slow and expensive).

  • @richardyot said:

    I'm not sure if reading comprehension is your strong point. My criticism is that a centralised database is always faster, more efficient, and cheaper to run than a blockchain. Points that the article you linked completely fail to address.

    No doubt in your reply you will move the goalposts, but just to stay on topic I will reiterate: a centralised database is orders of magnitude faster, cheaper and more efficient than the blockchain. Adress that argument by all means, but if you come back with some irrelevant tangent (as you are prone to doing) I will ignore you.

    It’s incredible (and a testament to the levels of ignorance in the blockchain community) that this is even a discussion. Centralised databases have run banks since computers had less processing power than today’s watches, blockchains struggle to complete a transaction without the whole thing melting.

  • @mangecoeur said:

    >

    >

    It’s incredible (and a testament to the levels of ignorance in the blockchain community) that this is even a discussion. Centralised databases have run banks since computers had less processing power than today’s watches, blockchains struggle to complete a transaction without the whole thing melting.

    Despite straw man arguments posted here by some unfamiliar with recent innovations, blockchains come in a variety of types and not all of them are hampered by high volume transactions. One type of blockchain which is rather revolutionary is Hashgraph and it has been designed from the ground up to carry massive numbers of transactions without the lag usually associated with Bitcoin.

  • edited December 2021

    https://media.giphy.com/media/7GPV80dC4GCNq/giphy.gif

    Be sure and check out how NFTs are being used for Sandbox and Decentraland, and you'll get an idea of how they are pricing people out of buying Goods and Services in those ecosystems.

    In Decentraland, as a Creator, if I want to sell something in their marketplace, it will cost me $500USD to submit the single digital asset. And even after submission, I am not guaranteed to be able to sell it since it needs to be Vetted by a Decentraland committee.

    Now, on top of that, if something is marketed as an NFT which works in the Decentraland ecosystem, it's a bidding war to own that 'RARE' item.

    Also, be sure and check out how much 'digital' land is being sold for in the Sandbox ecosystem...it's nuts upon nuts crazy.

    False scarcity in this ecosystem is novel, but it's just greed at the end of the day playing itself out in a public forum.

    I look forward to the day of regulation...because, well, the Inmates Are Running the Asylum right now imho hahaha....

    https://media.giphy.com/media/FycSuFILgWwfe/giphy.gif

  • I’m with @richardyot on this on (I think)… my IT career started with paper tape, punched cards and then went through mainframes, unix, Linux, flat files, networked databases, relational databases, client server 2, 3, 4, 5GLs etc. I don’t see anything in the new technology that old(er) technology couldn’t do. It’s just newer, more fashionable and keeps over paid consultants in a job.

  • edited December 2021

    @GeoTony Isn't Blockchain just the evolution of the BitTorrent protocol from the early 2000's?

    Oh BitTorrent...such a great idea...which was used for such nefarious things :) But hey...it let me learn Photoshop, 3dsmax, Emagic Logic, Lightwave 3D and so much more :blush:

    https://media.giphy.com/media/V6R9thgW7fimI/giphy.gif

  • @NeuM said:

    @mangecoeur said:

    >

    >

    It’s incredible (and a testament to the levels of ignorance in the blockchain community) that this is even a discussion. Centralised databases have run banks since computers had less processing power than today’s watches, blockchains struggle to complete a transaction without the whole thing melting.

    Despite straw man arguments posted here by some unfamiliar with recent innovations, blockchains come in a variety of types and not all of them are hampered by high volume transactions. One type of blockchain which is rather revolutionary is Hashgraph and it has been designed from the ground up to carry massive numbers of transactions without the lag usually associated with Bitcoin.

    As well as Hashgraph, keep an eye on ICP, The Internet Computer. It’s equally interesting from a technical and utilitarian point of view (although by the looks of it, not a good way to make money).

  • A friend of mine -- who is pretty conversant in blockchain -- has made the case, which I think seems reasonable, that people tend to conflate blockchain as an abstract technology with the various uses to which it has been put or the various particular ways that people have implemented it. He thinks that like a lot of technologies (and I'll include math concepts in there) sometimes it takes a while (sometimes a long while) before a truly useful application is found for something -- and sometimes it is quite different from what the originators envisioned.

    He figures that some version of blockchain will be really useful for something -- but that may be very different from the things people are using it for now.

    Right now we may be in that "ooh that shiny thing" stage.

  • @GeoTony said:
    I’m with @richardyot on this on (I think)… my IT career started with paper tape, punched cards and then went through mainframes, unix, Linux, flat files, networked databases, relational databases, client server 2, 3, 4, 5GLs etc. I don’t see anything in the new technology that old(er) technology couldn’t do. It’s just newer, more fashionable and keeps over paid consultants in a job.

    Then you should know that with none of these technologies you could build a decentralized but trustworthy transactional system, not even thinking about smart contracts. If you don’t see the value in these innovations then I can’t help you.

    Always the same argument „blockchain doesn’t scale“. This is fundamentally wrong. It’s proof of work that doesn’t scale. If you still don’t understand this difference in 2021 then it’s difficult to debate about this topic.

    Yes, proof of work is responsible for the majority of bad things you can say about blockchain. It’s probably the bad boy of modern computing and that is also true from the efficiency and eco footprint point if view but I say it’s also one of the greatest achievements in the history of computer science.

    Show me only one single IT system that matches the achievement of Bitcoin. A globally distributed decentralized system that is completely open, even allows access to the hardware of computers that are part of the system, stores assets worth billions of dollars and survived all attacks on it (carried out even by hackers that were backed with government resources) during its uninterrupted operation since more than ten years. Never been compromised. Never been down. Please, I mean it. Show me just one other system on this planet that shares the same qualities.

    I also cannot stand all the hype but if you can not understand this achievement then I have nothing more to say.

  • edited December 2021

    @krassmann
    Blockchain also makes sense if you need a trustworthy massively transactional system that is shared between different parties who do not trust each other.

    I know.. That use case is Bitcoin. Simple money, where one participant can sent to other participant some money, without intermediator or without any authority who verifies that transaction and prevents double spending, and especially who has control about distribution and creation of those money.

    Money is only one really meaningful use case for blockchain.

    And IMHO that is exactly what is needed to address an international solution for licenses/ownership of immaterial goods.

    Problem is - blockchain itself CAN'T verify if you are real owner of licences / ownership - this is information is located outside of blockchain, it's handled by law authority. Which means meaning of blockchain is none, authority holds record that you are real owner of that licence, can also ensure transfer of that licence from you to other participant. Makes no sense to use for it decentralised blockchain.

    I think the sheer number worldwide transactions regarding licenses and ownerships is probably hundreds of thousands if not millions every day. I cannot imagine any central or decentral register of legal proofs for these kind of transactions that is operated in the classic way.

    You're very wrong here if you think blockchain is more performant than centralised database. It's exact opposite. Advantages of blockchain are not speed (you actually need to do pretty much serious level of coding wizardry to make it very performant - in crypto world, for making networks more performat there are used various second layer solutions above main blockchain, like Lightning nework on Bitcoin, or various L1 networks over Ethereum like Polygon network, and so on).

    Just to make sure i know what i'm talking about - it's my job to design and implement complex database systems and applications which are processing big data for last 20 years, so a know a bit about that :-) Believe me, centralised database is way much more performant than blockchain. And make no mistake - centralised DB doesn't need to be single physical server - it may be distributed across multiple servers which even don't need to be located and same physical space, but across whole world (google or amazon servers are good example).

    Advantage of blockchain can be summed to 2 basic things:

    • solution of byzantian generals problem (lack of need of central authority for making decision if transaction was made or was not made)
    • solution for preventing double spending (preventing you to send same asset to 2 recipients)

    Both 2 problems (very complex problems in centralized system) are solved by blockchain architecture, these solutions are basic properties of blockchain, blockchian was made to solve them - but it works only until asset, managed by network, is pure digital asset, without connection to real world. It "lives" only on that blockchian, it's pure information which validity can be fully verified just by network itself without need of anything what exists outside of blockchain.

    ATM a content creator or patent creator registers it at a central entity in an analog way.

    And here it can also end. In this moment you don't need blockchain. In central entity database, you are now registered as owner of that licence, and in case you want transfer it to somebody else, you just ask central entity to change their record in their database. That's it. Makes no sense to use blockchain for it.

    And guys, one wish I have is not to bash everything blockchain.

    I'm the last one who is trying to bash blockchain. I'm watching this technology problably since 2012 or 2013 .. But i see big problem that many people (even experienced people in corporate business) are simply not understanding why this technology was created (by Satoshi Nakamonoto), what is it's purpouse, a where it makes sense and where not. Blockchain stops making sense in second when you want to use it for storing information about some physical objects which are existing OUTSIDE of it. Period.

  • edited December 2021

    @richardyot
    'm not sure if reading comprehension is your strong point. My criticism is that a centralised database is always faster, more efficient, and cheaper to run than a blockchain. Points that the article you linked completely fail to address.

    Yes for all use cases where you want store information about objects which exists outside of blockchain (which can be physicall analog objects, or digital objects - doesn't matter), AND/OR you need CHANGE/DELETE existing records. Especially for this one blockchain is completely unusable.

    As is said, blockchian was designed for solving 2 specific problems and it makes sense just for transfering digital assets in trust-less enviroment, without control of centralised authority, and important is that thoses assets exists EXCLUSIVELY only on that blockchain. In other words - money :-)

  • @krassmann
    Yes, proof of work is responsible for the majority of bad things you can say about blockchain.

    PoW is only way of transaction confirmation of blockchain operation which actually makes sense. Everything else is noise. PoS is basically fraud, massively vulnerable to attacks plus totally favours rich people (more you're rich, more you can stack, more you stack, more you're rich - do you see the pattern ??)

    This is how pow is "bad" ..

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/04/bitcoin-miners-say-theyre-fixing-texas-electric-grid-ted-cruz-agrees.html

  • edited December 2021

    @echoopera
    The biggest issue facing the blockchain at the moment is the number of simultaneous transactions which can occur...so it hasn't been able to work at Scale

    Ligning network is capable of millions of transactions per second... that few orders of maginute more than any other existing monetary network (yes including things like VISA, PayPal and so on) .. and adoption of LN is skyrocketing (not just El Salvador, recently Square released api toolking for implementing LN which is big thing .. it speeds up adoption even more)

    https://cryptonewbtc.blogspot.com/2021/12/jack-dorseys-spiral-demos-bitcoin.html

    @echoopera
    I know Solana is promising to achieve that scale

    Honestly, Solana is just horrible project. Yes it's cool for making profits, it pumps nicely - but network itself is one centralised hell bad joke. Just few nodes, and if one crashes (which happened some time ago), it can easily put down whole network for hours.

    Btw. high level of infrastructure centralisation and even dependence on some real world centralised authority (usually some company behind given project, or developers team with total control over network parameters) is biggest flaw of all so called "DeFi" projects (yes, including Ethereum) - they aren't actually "De", but just "Fi" :lol: None of existing DeFi blockchains is really decentralised, some have high degree of nodes centralisation, often also combined with staking centralisation. Whole DeFi is bad joke. It's just matter of time that SEC starts putting down one after one by declaring their tokens as security.

    But yeah, it's great for making short term huge profits if you manage to sell them before it crashes all the way down to Hades when Bitcoin finally enters multi year market :-))

  • edited December 2021

    @dendy When you quote people, please don't pick and choose what you want to quote. It's not cool nor is it respectful to the person you are partially quoting to move your agenda forward.

    I said this specifically about Solana,
    "I know Solano is promising to achieve that scale...but I believe that it is a Centralized Blockchain...which makes me wonder if it's any better than what we have today...but hey, not here to shill that token :)"

    Thanks.

  • edited December 2021

    @echoopera said:
    @dendy When you quote people, please don't pick and choose what you want to quote. It's not cool nor is it respectful to the person you are partially quoting to move your agenda forward.

    I said this specifically about Solana,
    "I know Solano is promising to achieve that scale...but I believe that it is a Centralized Blockchain...which makes me wonder if it's any better than what we have today...but hey, not here to shill that token :)"

    Thanks.

    sorry, was reacting on many things here and didn't read whole thing you wrote.. was not intentional .. i'm hell tired, i should go to bed sleep :)))

    Anyway, my point was i'm really dissapointed or even disgusted by basically all altcoin defi projects after deeply studying them for last few months .. like yeah, great opportunity to make profits and increase my bitcoin holdings through them lol :)) But i would love to see at least one trully decentralised DEFI project - i'm in crypto more for tech and for vision of decentralised future than for profits (i earn more than enough in my dailyjob and don't need to be millionaire:)). I think we deserve at least one good DeFi project, really decentralised with zero risk of beigh affected by some thief, scammers or ever government (which is mostly same). Sadly, there is none.

  • heshes
    edited December 2021

    @mangecoeur said:
    Finally, people already actively resell pro software. You can browse Ableton forums to find people selling license codes. You could say 'they could trade them as NFTs' but you would still need to get a valid activation code (not contained in the NFT) and Ableton AG would still need to validate it - which they already have a very good system for.

    Yes. Pianoteq, for example, has a system that allows users to sell their license to a new user. You notify Pianoteq of the sale, and they manage transferring the license code to the new owner. I used this system myself to buy a "used" Pianoteq license. I don't see the need for a blockchain-based solution to enable used software market. What special problem is being solved?

    What you have when you pay for software is a license. To resell AUv3s Apple would need to define its license terms to allow resale and allow a mechanism for loading the corresponding files. Note: NFTs don't store files and so are useless for transferring the software itself or the activation code (or whatever license enforcement system the developer chooses to use).

    Yes. I haven't read about their proposed system, but I don't see how Gamestop is going to get anywhere with an NFT used-market unless the game companies are on board with it.

  • edited December 2021

    @dendy Thanks. I figured. Get some sleep mate!

    Yeah, this whole space is looking for that "Killer Product" we can't live without. As of right now, I don't know of anything like that. What I am seeing is a lot of, "more of the same" copycat nonsense, but with a different HUE...and questionable "Project" intentions.

    NFTs as of right now are just Pokemon Trading Cards and In Game Skins/Merch to me.
    Defi is just another RobinHood and E*Trade - financial spaces for the masses.
    MetaVerse is just Roblox and MineCraft with a high barrier of entry because of their respective tokenomics. Who wants to spend $1500USD on a stupid skin. Have they not read SnowCrash by Neal Stephenson!

    Sure a lot of people are making money in these domains, but I would argue that none of these current projects are changing the world for the better...if anything, it's just more of the "Have and Have Nots" Grind which has been the major flaw of humanity since we did our first barter thousands of years ago.

    People do stupid shit when driven by greed.

  • heshes
    edited December 2021

    @krassmann said:
    Then you should know that with none of these technologies you could build a decentralized but trustworthy transactional system, not even thinking about smart contracts. If you don’t see the value in these innovations then I can’t help you.

    Always the same argument „blockchain doesn’t scale“. This is fundamentally wrong. It’s proof of work that doesn’t scale. If you still don’t understand this difference in 2021 then it’s difficult to debate about this topic.

    Yes, proof of work is responsible for the majority of bad things you can say about blockchain. It’s probably the bad boy of modern computing and that is also true from the efficiency and eco footprint point if view but I say it’s also one of the greatest achievements in the history of computer science.

    Proof-of-work is an integral part of a blockchain system. At least any public blockchain system that has trustworthy transactions. So if proof-of-work doesn't scale, then a decentralized public blockchain doesn't scale. That doesn't mean it's not a fascinating technology, or that it's not an impressive achievement. But the lack of scalability severely limits the practical uses you can make of it.

  • edited December 2021

    @echoopera
    Sure a lot of people are making money in these domains, but I would argue that none of these current projects are changing the world for the better...

    not entirely true.. Jack Maller's Strike (build on LN network, so on Bitcoin) is really helping to people in El Salvador. They are already saving HUGE amount of money, which were previously lost on big fees by companies like Western Union. So there are actually projects which are changing people's live to better (at least one lol)

  • @dendy said:

    @echoopera
    Sure a lot of people are making money in these domains, but I would argue that none of these current projects are changing the world for the better...

    not entirely true.. Jack Maller's Strike (build on LN network, so on Bitcoin) is really helping to people in El Salvador. They are already saving HUGE amount of money, which were previously lost on big fees by companies like Western Union. So there are actually projects which are changing people's live to better (at least one lol)

    This is great to hear :)
    I think what Cardano is trying to do in Africa will also help move the needle.

  • edited December 2021

    @echoopera
    I think what Cardano is trying to do in Africa will also help move the needle.

    unfortunately, this is different case .. first i don't think this will ever happen - i think this was just one of multiple Hoskinsons's performances to get public attention - but don't think this comes ever to any form of realisation...

    and secondly - this is exactly one of cases i mentioned above - for purpose for what this was mentioned (at least based on story and fairytales told by Hoskinson) this is great example where it makes absolutely no sense to use blockchain as technology - because of strong dependence on public authorities verifying data which are supposed to be stored on blockchain, even through traditional relational database would be 100x more effective solution :))

    My bets are whole "Africa" thing will slowly fade away .. i may be wrong of course, it's just my opinion based on stuff i read about this thing.

    And now, enough. I'm going to bed, good night (it's 23:39 here) :)

  • @dendy said:

    @echoopera
    I think what Cardano is trying to do in Africa will also help move the needle.

    unfortunately, this is different case .. first i don't think this will ever happen - i think this was just one of multiple Hoskinsons's performances to get public attention - but don't think this comes ever to any form of realisation...

    and secondly - this is exactly one of cases i mentioned above - for purpose for what this was mentioned (at least based on story and fairytales told by Hoskinson) this is great example where it makes absolutely no sense to use blockchain as technology - because of strong dependence on public authorities verifying data which are supposed to be stored on blockchain, even through traditional relational database would be 100x more effective solution :))

    My bets are whole "Africa" thing will slowly fade away .. i may be wrong of course, it's just my opinion based on stuff i read about this thing.

    And now, enough. I'm going to bed, good night (it's 23:39 here) :)

    Have a good nights sleep :)

  • wimwim
    edited December 2021

    I don't know why people claim blockchain is just a fad and only deluded geeks think there's any practical application. I read things all the time from serious players. Just one example: https://www.citibank.com/tts/insights/articles/article32.html (skip down to the heading "Consortium forms to digitise commodity trade finance" if you like).

    Again, just an example. I rarely give much credence pieces from sources I know to biased one way or the other, but when I see investment and serious discussion from financial institutions, I tend to pay attention. Especially when there are significant investments in the technology.

    I'm not emotionally invested in this back and forth nor am I intellectually committed either way. I just notice that such discussions tend to overlook some of the serious, though less sensational attention being paid toward potential applications toward distributed systems.

  • edited December 2021

    @wim Just follow the money as they say...and there are billions/trillions funneling into this space. I don't think anyone on this thread believes that the blockchain is a fad...

    I do think a few of us wonder about the "Killer Use Case" for the tech though. That to me is the Billion Dollar invisible elephant in the room for me :smiley: I don't think that when it is revealed, that it will be an elephant though. It needs to be something else we never thought possible and didn't realize we couldn't live without.

    But who cares what I think about the BC...I care more about BoC :wink:

  • wimwim
    edited December 2021

    @echoopera said:
    @wim Just follow the money as they say...and there are billions/trillions funneling into this space. I don't think anyone on this thread believes that the blockchain is a fad...

    I could pull a few quotes. ;)
    But that would accomplish nothing.
    And like I said way back up top ... so far my modest "educated" bets on the technology have been a total bust. If it weren't for crypto investments currently offsetting those decisions, I'd be in the red. :D

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