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Comments
The description has been altered to be downright insulting:
I now feel distinctly queasy about having bought F2 🤢
Wow this is not a good look at all. Hainbach is a huge inspiration of mine and this seems overtly petty and disingenuous. Also what’s up with saying “plain and simple, no manual needed, great for the iOS community”? Makes it seem like he things we’re a bunch of idiots. Or am I reading into that wrong?
Either way this just furthers the current distaste I have for how this is all going down and has me questioning whether I’ll even be interested in supporting the dev by buying Fun2 later down the road. Right now I think I won’t. Not gonna delete the first one as it’s a genius app and I’ve already given them my money, but it’s a big yikes from me.
Here's what I'm about to do - download the cut down app, write a review stating my personal feelings at his tactics, then delete it...
Guys you are way to harsh with him😂 the app itself is a pearl.
I think I have to agree with you! but I think it’s even worse, he’s criticizing Hainbach, but also he’s criticizing his own customers. That’s his prerogative of course, and I guess he doesn’t have to make a living with these iOS apps. But… it feels like everyone is being punished here, for what!? For not being geni? For legitimately asking for better touch screen controls!?
I really really love Fundamental, and I think that fundamental 2 would make a great IAP. But to get something this wrong and take your football home with you in a bad mood is not a good look.
Is English his first language?
Maybe it is a poor translation making it look worse than it is.
One thing is for certain. You should never try to insult someone in a place as visible as an App store description using a non preferred language. If I tried to insult someone in German for example I'd probably be more likely to insult myself.
😂
I don't think that he is making a living with iOS apps, impossible with such niche products (stochastic generators for controlling CV signals, one example of his apps) sold at 10/20 euros to an ultra-reduced user base.
He is making a living with the desktop versions of these apps, sold at 100 or 200 euros the piece. And a part of the desktop game is to continue improving the apps, and ask for upgrade prices. I this way, you are also making sustainable the maintenance of the app. Let's not forget that in this days, updates of the operating systems tend to break a lot of apps, not only in iOS.
Honestly, I see his iOS prices very fair. He wasn't offering an update price for Fundamental 2. But the price was so ridiculously low in comparison with its desktop counterpart, that it was still a bargain.
The future of iOS, if we want well maintained apps that don't disappear from the app store in two years, once the developer is tired of investing a lot of money in new devices for testing the apps and Apple Developer program fees, it will require to pay for updates.
Loopy Pro and Wotja are the future, if we want an iOS professional environment. And for professional, I refer that developers can make a living without having a second job, or working in their spare time.
To be fair, in German you’re bound to insult someone even without trying 🤣
I am a professional German and speak from experience
Seems pretty shady by the dev to cut out a collaborator’s cut of profits like that. I’m tempted to buy Fundamental 2, so that I can review it as 1 star in the App Store, then refund the app. At least if Fund 2 has poor reviews, it could incentivize potential buyers to go with Fundamental 1, which has 5 stars. If Hainbach only gets a cut from the original, then the 2nd app has stolen intellectual property in it as far as I’m concerned.
I dunno. I agree it looks sketchy but I also think the refund process should be reserved for actually faulty or unsuitable apps.
No way I would risk that. I've had a few faulty or poorly described apps refused refund recently because they are "not eligible", whatever that means. No way I would risk it on a $36 app.
Does anyone use this or the other iterations of it on an older iPad? I’m on an Air 1 and the app itself will load but the auv instances never will in any host. Maybe this just uses a shit load of ram that my iPad doesn’t have
ops, better ask here. confused about which version to get , 1 or 2 ? I have watched the Tube videos, but I can't purchase just both to see which is better for my iPAD. maybe should install the desktop demo to run it on my M1 to have more idea.
The new free version loads and works fine in standalone or as AUv3 in AUM on my Air 2.
I have installed the desktop demo version. There is this preset called "sinechimes" in the morph bank. It reads %20 CPU on Ableton Live. I would appreciate if someone could check that same preset on his iPAD and read the CPU. I have an iPAD Pro 2020, really curious how this goes on iOS.
On my iPad 6th Gen (2018) this preset is showing between 14% and 20% DSP in AUM - it goes up to the 20% mark when fiddling with the morph thingy in the middle.
@bygjohn I really appreciate this. I am thinking to run 4 instances of F2 for the contemporary dance project I am involved in. So I need a really stable live operation. will see soon if my iPad Pro can handle this. ( the desktop version costs four times more. )
I’m questioning this myself. I received an email about updating to Fundamental 2 on desktop...
Long time ago😂😂😂
They send my discount code one week ago to get fundamental 2 on pc😂😂😂
sorry to interrupt ! I have done some testing with Fundamental2 on AUM using my iPAD pro 2020. There are 2 instances of F2 one performing a morph preset. It is hard to tell what makes the difference. After all, it is like impossible to use a buffer size 64. The CPU moves a lot. But with a setting 512 things look stable, and CPU is around %12. What does mean 512 sound quality wise ? The CPU usage does not get multiplied when I increase the instances. So I wonder how reliable is this meter ?
I will use this setup on stage with 4 instances, each dedicated to a dancer, and this will be my first stage use of iPad. I am curious and attentive, so people using iPAD live, please share your comments..
I can't imagine that there's that many people buying these apps at $1-200 either. Most desktop developers of your more niche stuff are either hobbyists, or they live in poorer countries (Brazil, Russia, etc) where money goes a lot further.
Ableton, who are a giant in the production world, have annual revenue (not profits, revenue0 of around $57 million. In business terms they're tiny. They have 300 employees and a sizable marketing budget. How much do you think your average 1 man developer is making?
I mean developers charge a lot more on desktop and still most of them are doing those things. The reality is you can charge a lot and sell fewer copies, or charge less and sell more. There are obviously places on that demand curve that are more profitable - but it's not obvious that charging $20 every year or so for an unreliable piece of software is that place.
The buffer affects latency, rather than sound quality, so as Fundamental isn’t really using much in the way of transients, I would have thought larger buffer sizes would be OK. Are you noticing any big/audible/annoying delay between pressing a controller key and the sound triggering? Or are you just using the on screen controls? In which case the latency probably won’t be an issue.
Thank you for your response. Speaking of controller assignment, my idea is mapping the dancer position to the morph pointer position of each F2 instance. I am not there yet, but will try basic midi controller setup to move the morph pointer. I will report if there is anything annoying.
Cool!
Just an idea but you might also want to look at something like https://holon.ist/ to incorporate movement and midi control?
that looks wonderful, thanks for sharing this. At the moment, I am struggling with the behavior of Fundamental morph pointer. Sometimes a small movement leads to a lot of change, and it evolves in time even when the pointer is steady. I have to limit it to a degree to correlate with things. sounds very rich but is also wild.
Are you using Fundamental as an AU plugin in a DAW like AUM? In AUM you can set ranges to work within I think to make small changes. I might be misunderstanding however. This initiative is probably worth its own thread if you are up for creating one. I’m sure you will get helpful feedback.
The logic of charging less to have more customers is valid, as soon as your product is not an ultra-niche product. Specially if you aren't a well stablished brand.
It's not the same to sell an app for making beats or a guitar amp, that try to sell a weird oscillator with sounds from test equipment, with a complex interface intended for creating generative music.
For a niche product you will never increase the number of customers, it doesn't matter the price.
So you need to obtain the profit counting only with this reduced user base.
@Pynchon said:
Unless you're arguing that Fundamental would sell exactly the same number of copies if it cost $10,000 as if cost $10 then clearly the price does matter.