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Trying to lock in some ideas for workflow/app purchase

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Comments

  • edited February 2022

    @el_bo said:

    Do you think that BM's timeline workflow i.e outside of the scenes integration is comparable to either AEM or Cubasis? I can think of some things that seem to be missing, but that just might be user-error.

    I prefer the Bm3 timeline over Cubasis for midi because you can have instanced (cloned) patterns. With Cubasis you have to delete and reduplicate every pattern copy if you make a tweak. That is a deal breaker for me. Also with Bm3 you can loop a specific pattern while the rest of the timeline plays, which I have really grown to enjoy.

  • @el_bo

    Not so much many small apps as one main DAW and some additional plugins for specific tasks.

    That way you stay in one main app, don't have to worry about syncing or state saving or any app switching nonsense and have one project file to worry about. You could for example load a looper into an fx slot, mess with the tape speed etc whilst recording the automation and then bounce the results to a new track. Or load a sampler into an aux channel to capture a submit to mangle later.

    But staying within the main DAW as the hub.

  • @AudioGus said:

    @el_bo said:

    Do you think that BM's timeline workflow i.e outside of the scenes integration is comparable to either AEM or Cubasis? I can think of some things that seem to be missing, but that just might be user-error.

    I prefer the Bm3 timeline over Cubasis for midi because you can have instanced (cloned) patterns. With Cubasis you have to delete and reduplicate every pattern copy if you make a tweak. That is a deal breaker for me. Also with Bm3 you can loop a specific pattern while the rest of the timeline plays, which I have really grown to enjoy.

    But that's MIDI. What about Audio? What about when I record a 3-minute guitar piece and then want to edit the audio directly in the timeline? I might've missed it, but I couldn't even find a way in BM to zoom vertically to get a much better idea of what was happening in the audio. I didn't see any tools or functionality that would allow me to grab fade handles right on the audio tracks themselves, nor to accomplish much of what AEM allows to do when moving around clips. From the small amount of time I played with it, it seemed that edits had to be performed in a separate window, and it just wasn't set up for the same level of interaction directly within the timeline.

    Again, this might just be user-error in not having discovered these parts yet.

    Where it does shine, and where I know it will be useful, is in the scenes mode for experimenting with arrangements. But I also really appreciated the looping of "a specific pattern while the rest of the timeline plays". That was one of the things I clearly remember from the video you posted, and something I would no doubt use in building up ideas. Hadn't even realised the clone aspect ;)

    As I've already said, I'm not ruling out eventually realising that doing it all in BM works out much better. I can certainly see it being perfect for the straighter, more loop-based ideas that I want to make. For everything else, especially the mixed time-sig stuff, it doesn't seem like it's gonna be the right tool for the job

  • edited February 2022

    @el_bo said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @el_bo said:

    Do you think that BM's timeline workflow i.e outside of the scenes integration is comparable to either AEM or Cubasis? I can think of some things that seem to be missing, but that just might be user-error.

    I prefer the Bm3 timeline over Cubasis for midi because you can have instanced (cloned) patterns. With Cubasis you have to delete and reduplicate every pattern copy if you make a tweak. That is a deal breaker for me. Also with Bm3 you can loop a specific pattern while the rest of the timeline plays, which I have really grown to enjoy.

    But that's MIDI. What about Audio? What about when I record a 3-minute guitar piece and then want to edit the audio directly in the timeline? I might've missed it, but I couldn't even find a way in BM to zoom vertically to get a much better idea of what was happening in the audio. I didn't see any tools or functionality that would allow me to grab fade handles right on the audio tracks themselves, nor to accomplish much of what AEM allows to do when moving around clips. From the small amount of time I played with it, it seemed that edits had to be performed in a separate window, and it just wasn't set up for the same level of interaction directly within the timeline.

    Again, this might just be user-error in not having discovered these parts yet.

    Where it does shine, and where I know it will be useful, is in the scenes mode for experimenting with arrangements. But I also really appreciated the looping of "a specific pattern while the rest of the timeline plays". That was one of the things I clearly remember from the video you posted, and something I would no doubt use in building up ideas. Hadn't even realised the clone aspect ;)

    As I've already said, I'm not ruling out eventually realising that doing it all in BM works out much better. I can certainly see it being perfect for the straighter, more loop-based ideas that I want to make. For everything else, especially the mixed time-sig stuff, it doesn't seem like it's gonna be the right tool for the job

    Yup, all true.

    In the end I found getting to know the BM3 pads / slicer etc and hacking it for fine audio editing was more productive for me than Cubasis or anything else I tried on iOS. For bigger tracks/clips, sure Cubasis was OK but the lack of visual feedback on the wav display is annoying. Ultimately I just use desktop and Samplitude for that now though. 5-10 minutes in Samplitude equals an hour+ on iOS for audio editing and arranging. For sequencing soft synths I use Maschine. iOS gets very little use these days now that I am no longer commuting.

  • @klownshed said:
    @el_bo

    Not so much many small apps as one main DAW and some additional plugins for specific tasks.

    That way you stay in one main app, don't have to worry about syncing or state saving or any app switching nonsense and have one project file to worry about. You could for example load a looper into an fx slot, mess with the tape speed etc whilst recording the automation and then bounce the results to a new track. Or load a sampler into an aux channel to capture a submit to mangle later.

    But staying within the main DAW as the hub.

    This all makes sense. And I think this is inevitably how I'll end up doing it. I've already lost enough worthwhile music due to not understanding the foibles of IAA, state-saving etc. Just the fact that none of the hosts seem to do well loading IAA's, meaning exiting out, loading manually, double-tapping back in etc. is already enough to kill any creative buzz I might have. The positive upshot of the above is that I'm just gonna have to be someone who learns to commit. Same as back in the 4-track days, when bouncing down to free up tracks. Seemed so easy to do, back then. These days, everything can constantly be undone, redone etc. and it just seems to end up (Well, for a procrastinator like me) never getting done :(

    Either way, it still comes back to the fact that there is no better sampler for my needs than BM3 ;)

  • @AudioGus said:

    @el_bo said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @el_bo said:

    Do you think that BM's timeline workflow i.e outside of the scenes integration is comparable to either AEM or Cubasis? I can think of some things that seem to be missing, but that just might be user-error.

    I prefer the Bm3 timeline over Cubasis for midi because you can have instanced (cloned) patterns. With Cubasis you have to delete and reduplicate every pattern copy if you make a tweak. That is a deal breaker for me. Also with Bm3 you can loop a specific pattern while the rest of the timeline plays, which I have really grown to enjoy.

    But that's MIDI. What about Audio? What about when I record a 3-minute guitar piece and then want to edit the audio directly in the timeline? I might've missed it, but I couldn't even find a way in BM to zoom vertically to get a much better idea of what was happening in the audio. I didn't see any tools or functionality that would allow me to grab fade handles right on the audio tracks themselves, nor to accomplish much of what AEM allows to do when moving around clips. From the small amount of time I played with it, it seemed that edits had to be performed in a separate window, and it just wasn't set up for the same level of interaction directly within the timeline.

    Again, this might just be user-error in not having discovered these parts yet.

    Where it does shine, and where I know it will be useful, is in the scenes mode for experimenting with arrangements. But I also really appreciated the looping of "a specific pattern while the rest of the timeline plays". That was one of the things I clearly remember from the video you posted, and something I would no doubt use in building up ideas. Hadn't even realised the clone aspect ;)

    As I've already said, I'm not ruling out eventually realising that doing it all in BM works out much better. I can certainly see it being perfect for the straighter, more loop-based ideas that I want to make. For everything else, especially the mixed time-sig stuff, it doesn't seem like it's gonna be the right tool for the job

    Yup, all true.

    In the end I found getting to know the BM3 pads / slicer etc and hacking it for fine audio editing was more productive for me than Cubasis or anything else I tried on iOS. For bigger tracks/clips, sure Cubasis was OK but the lack of visual feedback on the wav display is annoying. Ultimately I just use desktop and Samplitude for that now though. 5-10 minutes in Samplitude equals an hour+ on iOS for audio editing and arranging. For sequencing soft synths I use Maschine. iOS gets very little use these days now that I am no longer commuting.

    The original plan was to sample things from AUM performances and field-recordings ,edit in BM3, and eventually using all that sound-design in Logic. It may still happen that way. But as much as I love Logic, and have projects I'm currently working on, I need a change of scenery. Editing in Logic means sitting at home (Somewhere I'd rather not spend too much time at the moment), where I currently sit for hours on-end. But grabbing the iPad, and a pair of IEMs means I can make music at the beach, on a hike etc. Anywhere but home.

    Despite last-week's hiccough, BM3 is assured as part of my sound-design workflow for my home rig. Grabbing AEM is a $10 excursion, which I think will make it easier to get started in iOS. And perhaps I can actually make the iOS-only album that I started back with Nanostudio on my iPod Touch, a decade ago. if it doesn't happen, very little is lost :)

  • @el_bo said:

    The original plan was to sample things from AUM performances and field-recordings ,edit in BM3, and eventually using all that sound-design in Logic. It may still happen that way. But as much as I love Logic, and have projects I'm currently working on, I need a change of scenery. Editing in Logic means sitting at home (Somewhere I'd rather not spend too much time at the moment), where I currently sit for hours on-end. But grabbing the iPad, and a pair of IEMs means I can make music at the beach, on a hike etc. Anywhere but home.

    Yah I hear yah. I would rather not commute of course but it was kind of cool inspiration wise making tunes on the train and while walking (RIP headphone jack though). At home I have a standing / sitting desk with a quick motor for adjustments and Maschine helps cut way down on the keyboard / mouse part.

  • @AudioGus said:

    @el_bo said:

    The original plan was to sample things from AUM performances and field-recordings ,edit in BM3, and eventually using all that sound-design in Logic. It may still happen that way. But as much as I love Logic, and have projects I'm currently working on, I need a change of scenery. Editing in Logic means sitting at home (Somewhere I'd rather not spend too much time at the moment), where I currently sit for hours on-end. But grabbing the iPad, and a pair of IEMs means I can make music at the beach, on a hike etc. Anywhere but home.

    Yah I hear yah. I would rather not commute of course but it was kind of cool inspiration wise making tunes on the train and while walking (RIP headphone jack though). At home I have a standing / sitting desk with a quick motor for adjustments and Maschine helps cut way down on the keyboard / mouse part.

    Interesting about you using Maschine. Do you think your familiarity with that is why you're more comfortable in BM?

    And good stuff with the standing-desk. How do you find it? Been using one for many years. Used to have my studio mounted on it, but now I have a floor-seated studio set-up ;) The standing space is now for the iPad 'flow'.

  • As for the headphone-jack? Fortunately the iPad 9 still has one ;)

  • @el_bo said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @el_bo said:

    The original plan was to sample things from AUM performances and field-recordings ,edit in BM3, and eventually using all that sound-design in Logic. It may still happen that way. But as much as I love Logic, and have projects I'm currently working on, I need a change of scenery. Editing in Logic means sitting at home (Somewhere I'd rather not spend too much time at the moment), where I currently sit for hours on-end. But grabbing the iPad, and a pair of IEMs means I can make music at the beach, on a hike etc. Anywhere but home.

    Yah I hear yah. I would rather not commute of course but it was kind of cool inspiration wise making tunes on the train and while walking (RIP headphone jack though). At home I have a standing / sitting desk with a quick motor for adjustments and Maschine helps cut way down on the keyboard / mouse part.

    Interesting about you using Maschine. Do you think your familiarity with that is why you're more comfortable in BM?

    It was the other way around in that BM3 prepared me for Maschine. I used Bm3 a ton for about three years and then when the pandy hit and I was at home for a while I realized that commuting life is gone for me likely forever so I got Maschine. I had always heard that BM3 uhhh 'drew upon' Maschine so I thought I would like it. It is amazing and hands down the best experience I have had making music in 30+ years.

    And good stuff with the standing-desk. How do you find it? Been using one for many years. Used to have my studio mounted on it, but now I have a floor-seated studio set-up ;) The standing space is now for the iPad 'flow'.

    I love it! I now have three of these. One for work (digital painting/3d ), one for music and one for drawing on paper...

    https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B083K8BXS3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

  • @el_bo said:
    As for the headphone-jack? Fortunately the iPad 9 still has one ;)

    Yah I was very tempted to just wait for the next base model but went with the M1... and am now squandering it's potential, heh.

  • @AudioGus said:

    @el_bo said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @el_bo said:

    The original plan was to sample things from AUM performances and field-recordings ,edit in BM3, and eventually using all that sound-design in Logic. It may still happen that way. But as much as I love Logic, and have projects I'm currently working on, I need a change of scenery. Editing in Logic means sitting at home (Somewhere I'd rather not spend too much time at the moment), where I currently sit for hours on-end. But grabbing the iPad, and a pair of IEMs means I can make music at the beach, on a hike etc. Anywhere but home.

    Yah I hear yah. I would rather not commute of course but it was kind of cool inspiration wise making tunes on the train and while walking (RIP headphone jack though). At home I have a standing / sitting desk with a quick motor for adjustments and Maschine helps cut way down on the keyboard / mouse part.

    Interesting about you using Maschine. Do you think your familiarity with that is why you're more comfortable in BM?

    It was the other way around in that BM3 prepared me for Maschine. I used Bm3 a ton for about three years and then when the pandy hit and I was at home for a while I realized that commuting life is gone for me likely forever so I got Maschine. I had always heard that BM3 uhhh 'drew upon' Maschine so I thought I would like it. It is amazing and hands down the best experience I have had making music in 30+ years.

    And good stuff with the standing-desk. How do you find it? Been using one for many years. Used to have my studio mounted on it, but now I have a floor-seated studio set-up ;) The standing space is now for the iPad 'flow'.

    I love it! I now have three of these. One for work (digital painting/3d ), one for music and one for drawing on paper...

    https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B083K8BXS3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    As I was posting, I thought you'd say that BM inspired your use of Maschine :) Didn't know there was a link between BM and M. Always just guessed it was going after the MPC experience. Love the look of the M hardware and at one point I thought of giving the software a trial (Got it with Komplete and an NI keyboard), but it's just another one of those ideas that I've yet to get around to doing.

    That's not a bad price for an electric desk. They've definitely become a lot cheaper in the last few years. Will have to have a look for some old photos. My standing-desks have been a lot more, erm...ghetto than yours ;)

    Here's a photo of my floor-desk studio. It's an older photo, but not much has changed (Newer iPad. MPK MINI now where headphones are sitting and have started using Apogee One interface again:

  • @el_bo said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @el_bo said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @el_bo said:

    The original plan was to sample things from AUM performances and field-recordings ,edit in BM3, and eventually using all that sound-design in Logic. It may still happen that way. But as much as I love Logic, and have projects I'm currently working on, I need a change of scenery. Editing in Logic means sitting at home (Somewhere I'd rather not spend too much time at the moment), where I currently sit for hours on-end. But grabbing the iPad, and a pair of IEMs means I can make music at the beach, on a hike etc. Anywhere but home.

    Yah I hear yah. I would rather not commute of course but it was kind of cool inspiration wise making tunes on the train and while walking (RIP headphone jack though). At home I have a standing / sitting desk with a quick motor for adjustments and Maschine helps cut way down on the keyboard / mouse part.

    Interesting about you using Maschine. Do you think your familiarity with that is why you're more comfortable in BM?

    It was the other way around in that BM3 prepared me for Maschine. I used Bm3 a ton for about three years and then when the pandy hit and I was at home for a while I realized that commuting life is gone for me likely forever so I got Maschine. I had always heard that BM3 uhhh 'drew upon' Maschine so I thought I would like it. It is amazing and hands down the best experience I have had making music in 30+ years.

    And good stuff with the standing-desk. How do you find it? Been using one for many years. Used to have my studio mounted on it, but now I have a floor-seated studio set-up ;) The standing space is now for the iPad 'flow'.

    I love it! I now have three of these. One for work (digital painting/3d ), one for music and one for drawing on paper...

    https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B083K8BXS3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    As I was posting, I thought you'd say that BM inspired your use of Maschine :) Didn't know there was a link between BM and M. Always just guessed it was going after the MPC experience. Love the look of the M hardware and at one point I thought of giving the software a trial (Got it with Komplete and an NI keyboard), but it's just another one of those ideas that I've yet to get around to doing.

    Yah I had no real knowledge of MPC stuff before Bm3. As for the Maschine software it has apparently come a long way and it seems that I jumped in at just the right time now that they added non-looping ‘place anywhere’ clips on the timeline. I am realizing after a year using it that I should focus more on taking things as far as I can in Maschine first as opposed to thinking of exporting stems to Samplitude for ‘finishing’. A lot can be done just in the Maschine software and with fx vsts like Infiltrator and Stutter fx I feel far less need to chop and mangle in a timeline daw than I used to. Times change!

    That's not a bad price for an electric desk. They've definitely become a lot cheaper in the last few years. Will have to have a look for some old photos. My standing-desks have been a lot more, erm...ghetto than yours ;)

    Here's a photo of my floor-desk studio. It's an older photo, but not much has changed (Newer iPad. MPK MINI now where headphones are sitting and have started using Apogee One interface again:

    Nice, I had a similar hack before using an ikea coffee table and book shelf. The ikeahackers.net site is full of cool ideas.

  • Before I get to some other replies, thought I'd share ('cause I know y'all are dying to know :) ) that Cubasis won over AEM in the battle of the DAW.

    It came right down to the last day ;)

  • So...Can't stop fiddling with Cubasis. My smoothest iOS DAW experience so far.

    I'm sure much of that is to do with my familiarity with 'straight' linear DAW. Early days, of course. But every button I press does exactly what I think it'll do and so far only had to 'wrestle' with a couple of foibles. Still have a little draw towards AEM, as I think it's more powerful. But the UI and workflow of CB seems so conducive to just 'getting it done!'.

    Only made tentative steps so far, but am really confident it'll work well as a hub for AUM and BM3. That takes a huge amount of pressure off of BM as a one-DAW-to-rule-them-all, and just focusing on it as a beat sampler and live performance tool. Not in a rush to re-buy BM, as I'd like to avoid spreading myself too thin in terms of learning stuff. I still have ReSlice, Koala and CB's MiniSampler, in the meantime :)

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