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Comments
These look good!.
Just to clarify… Is the brand Linsoul?.
There’s other results on Amazon for KZ ZS10 by other brands like Yiyoo, Kinkoo and some similar Chinese names.
Here’re some reviews of the ZSX. Having some real doubts about them:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsx.23948/reviews#review-22650
Will elaborate when back home
Thanks again, for all the help.
WRT these KZ models: There are enough mentions of discomfort to make me wary. And given the humongous-ness of them (Seeing so many photos really rammed that home), I can imagine my little ears not having such a great time of them
The other thing to note is that KZ seem to favour a light V-shaped profile. This can be great for listening enjoyment, but not necessarily so good in the 'critical' decisions department. It's just another thing to fight against/compensate for. Of course, as with all monitoring equipment, it just takes learning them well enough to know HOW to compensate.
I'm not really after teh 'Holy Grail' of so-called flat-response, but I would rather avoid something that is intentionally hyped.
I already have some fantastic KEF (M200) iem's. Love the sound, despite being pretty bass-heavy (Not normally my thing). In this case, the rest of the spectrum seems to shine through. I stopped using them because they started to develop a kink/weak-point on one of the cables. So I put 'em away until such a point as I could find someone to re-cable them. But I think if I'm going to go for something with such a robust sound, it might be worth just reinforcing the kink with some superglue and using them.
But I'd still like to explore the idea of something perhaps more neutral. To that end, I did find these recommended for engineers. Not sure if anyone has any experience with them. The downside is that they need amping (A stage too far, at the moment), but I think this review gives a description of a sound that I'm after:
https://nobsaudiophile.com/2019/03/22/final-audio-design-e1000-when-budget-price-meet-audiophile-tuning/
Commenting on the KZ10s @CapnWillie recommended. Pluses, very comfortable, tremendous detail, beautiful build. Cons, rather papery sounding, biased toward the treble end, some sibilants with spoken word. Left and right don’t blend very well, very thin cable.
Bottom line, for me, not a rich enough sound. I tried it out with classical, movie soundtrack, jazz, arias.
Just not enough there there… for me. Piano was actually quite good, tho. I will try different ear tips, but for now it is a return. Still, at less than $50, it seems a good value if the sound quality appeals to you.
Now I’m hooked on some iems. Anyone use moondrop aria? It sounds like it has a bit more bass and less sibilance
Many seem to think the kz-7sx are an improvement on the 10's, especially in terms of treble refinement. But not sure if they'd satisfy the richness factor. They dongave different bass qualities, however.
So far my research has led me to these two. More refined in treble, but maybe not the kind of bass you’ve looking for:
https://www.amazon.com/HIFIMAN-RE600S-V2-Songbird-High-Performance/dp/B01I5064RE
https://www.amazon.com/Linsoul-Diaphragm-Dynamic-Earphone-Detachable/dp/B07XP94QJ8/ref=psdc_172541_t1_B07TXXRPZJ?th=1
Worth checking out head-fi[dot] org for more info. More balanced/neutral and a more manageable size (if that’s a consideration). Very interested in the BL-03, but there are complaints about fit/seal.
No problem @CapnWillie. It got me researching what’s out there which is always fun.
Lol @CapnWillie, I sprung $189 for a pair of Moondrop Kato iems. They seem like so special for the dough. Will let you know. Here’s a review by one of the best reviewers I’ve seen. From Serbia, no less…
Excellent!
Some extra opinions, here:
https://www.headfonia.com/moondrop-kato-review/
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/moondrop-kato-new-single-dynamic-driver-iem.25413/?page=2#comments
Definitely sounds like the kind of profile I'd like i.e balanced, airy/breezy, non-fatiguing etc. Would love to hear your opinion once you've taken them for a spin.
I've decided to drop my own quest for the moment. I just don't have the money for it. But more than that, I've yet to cover any real ground in iOS music-making to know how much I'll be doing it over and above my desktop music. So, for the moment I will try to get around the issues I have with my KEF's:
Will try to find slightly smaller tips, This should hopefully alleviate the discomfort issue (Also thinking of buying ear-plug lube), but also might very slightly lessen the seal perhaps tempering the strident bass. But f that drastically affects the rest of the signature, I'll just have to spend more time learning to compensate for the bass. Will also super-glue the various parts of the cable that won't survive being constantly squashed into a travel pouch.
They do sound great, so it's a shame not to use them. And at some point in the future, I might go for something more neutral.
Thanks everyone.
Richard, I spent twenty minutes looking at those rankings. It was a mind altering experience!
Sorry for your experience. Many things to say, but I'll leave it to those who probably know of those particular units
What’s on your mind @el_bo? Now I’m looking at Beyerdynamics DT880 open back phones. Free return with Amazon so I’m entertaining myself.
Superlux are ridiculously cheap and pretty good imo. I own a pair and I’m very happy with them. They have a big low end which I find useful to compare with my “better” AKG’s.
https://www.thomann.de/es/superlux_hd_681_evo_bk.htm?ref=prp_dyk_alt_1
It sounds to me like you couldn't get a good seal for your ear shape. Getting great bass from IEMs isn't a problem at all if there is a good seal between the IEM and your ear (in fact bass from IEMs is generally better than from headphones). But if you can't get a good seal then IEMs will sound exactly as you described them: trebly and tinny.
Personally this is one reason why I prefer headphones to IEMs: I just find IEMs really fiddly to deal with, and I'm constantly having to adjust them to get the seal right. IEMs are OK if you're sitting still (in fact they can be excellent), but if I'm walking around I can't usually get them to stay comfortably in my ears, whereas headphones just don't have that problem.
There are a few things, really.
Iem's definitely have the edge for portability, and in some cases comfort. This will depend on the weight of cans and heat/humidity of environment (I find over-ears unbearable in the Summer, even in an air-conditioned room). Another way that iem's have the advantage is in isolation. Given the right tips and a goo seal, it becomes much easier to block out the external environment, which means that they can be used at lower volumes while giving a much better feeling of being directly connected to the music. Further to that point of isolation, once we get into the world of iem's, it's possible to get custom-moulds made, which offer many advantages
But there's always going to be a large difference between iem and circumaural. You're right to note the size of the driver, because air still needs pushing and bigger units are better equipped to do so. Also, in the case of over-ears, the space/cavity also comes into play.
Iems really need to be compared to each other, to better judge them.
But the issues of treble harshness can be down to two things:
1) Lack of burn-in - This is somewhat controversial in the headphone/speaker world, but it is suggested that it takes a while for the drivers to 'warm-up' and settle/relax into their normal and expected performance. Like new shoes, they take a little breaking-in before they're comfy. Normally this is done by leaving music (or various types of noise) playing through them, constantly, for a certain amount of hours (Opinions vary on length of time, also).
2) All types of headphones should normally be matched as best as possible with hardware that can best drive the ohm-age of the cans. Even in the case of a small set of iems, they may not need a lot of driving, but that doesn't mean they won't 'sing' when paired with even the most basic of hi-fi amps. I'd guess that most of the reviewers who reviewed the Kato's were using some kind of amplifier. It can really make the difference between glowing recommendations and "trebly/tinny".
Did you plug them straight into an iPad or was there an audio interface in between?
One of the reasons I got both the over-ears I use (KRK KNS8400) and the Kef M200 iem's is that they both perform well directly from consumer-grade hardware i.e directly from a mobile phone etc. The KRK are pretty flat and clinical, which is great for making music. However, they make listening to music really, erm...boring. The Kef's are very different. They flatter the music, and make it extremely fun to listen to. If you read this review of the Kef, it's clear that they are bass-heavy (One of the reasons I'm cautious about using them for production), and yet despite that bass heavy-ness, they are still noticeably more contained than over-ears.
https://www.whathifi.com/kef/m200/review
A best-in-class tent will compare well to other tents, but will never compare to the house in which one normally resides
Anyway, there's nothing to say that you should like using them at all. And if all your listening or recording is done at home, it's hard to make a case for not going for full-sized cans. But if you do want to get more acquainted with the ins-and-outs of iems or any different type of head-gear, I'd recommend reading and enquiring over at head-fi.org GAS warnings apply, of course. Things can get quite expensive over there. And because people buy these things just to test, having huge collections, there is a bustling 2nd-hand part of the community. Over the years, I've had very good experiences buying and selling there (Bought both the Kef and the KRK from other members). The only caveat is that they're mainly listening for enjoyment, not production. But if you specifically ask for production recommendations, there are normally quite a few knowledgable folk to help with that.
Indeed! Superlux are definitely well-placed in the giant-killer category. Also, coming highly-recommended, punching weigh above their price-point, are the Samson SR850.
https://audiophileon.com/news/samson-sr850-superlux-hd681-review/
I guess it could be as simple as that. Maybe none of the ones supplied did the trick. I always found triple-flange to get a good seal. But I'm wary of anything going so deep, these days...especially after a couple of occasions where I've removed the iem and the tip was still deeply wedged in my ear
I live and die by the 7506’s but really don’t mind using the apple earbuds for mixing sometimes. I’ll just use Morphit with them when I do
Thanks @el_bo, @CapnWillie and @richardyot.
I agree, probably didn’t get a good seal, but I am averse to pushing stuff deeper in my ear so I realize now I’m not a good candidate for iems.
I guess I was expecting something spectacular at a much too low price point. Lol, there was a $10,000 pair listed on the ranking Richard linked to and it was a total F in their grades.
I have no need for portability and that is one of their main advantages.
Hence, now I am looking for something good in an open backed pair for $300 or less. Not for mixing, but for pure enjoyment of jazz, classical and soundtracks. Any suggestions?
Sennheiser HD560s would be hard to beat. Alternatively the classic HD600, if you prefer a more mellow sound. I would go with the 560s though, the price is great and they're probably the best value proposition going.
@CapnWillie, you mean like $200 a month rent controlled for a two bedroom apartment on the upper West Side, NYC? Yeah, I remember stuff like that.
But electronics are different, no? I bought a four track Tascam reel to reel in 1980 for $1000. A 60” flat screen… what, $600?
@richardyot, yeah, that’s one I’m strongly considering. The 300 ohms not a problem without an amp?
Thanks for the input, bro.
With Apple hardware 300ohms is not really an issue. iPhones and iPads and Apple dongles should all drive them to a decent volume.
@richardyot, your opinion on the 6xx? The cable is less bulky and the build a little better?
The HD650s are my main phones and I love them. They might be a little dark for you coming from the Sonys though. The HD560 will be less of a culture shock, but still way smoother and more refined than the Sonys 😀
You can get shorter aftermarket cables for all the Sennheisers.
Thx very much @richardyot. I’m all for dark. The 6xx is based on the 650, correct?
Correct. They're exactly the same AFAIK.