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Mac Studio - not much "studio" šŸ˜…

2

Comments

  • @cian said:

    @Hmtx said:

    >

    Funny enough, in any field when someone complains that the equipment isnā€˜ t sold ā€œready to useā€ for a specific task then thats actually a good sign that the person complaining is absolutely not a pro.

    Don't video professionals usually buy their hardware from turnkey video people though? :) Though probably not directly from Apple.

    Actually I'd be curious to see how many professionals are still using Apple at this point. There seemed to be a big exodus a few years ago due to complaints about the cost, video card support and issues with hardware integration - at least among those that I knew.

    Maybe in the youtube world and a few areas here and there but in Hollywood theyā€™re still Mac heavy from what Iā€™ve seen

  • @NeonSilicon said:

    I've tried to go with Linux for my audio work many times. It's always been a mess. It's still kinda slowly getting better, so maybe some day. The best experience I've had with it is actually on the Raspberry Pi. You can get some pretty good results using one of the audio hats with the right drivers.

    I haven't really experienced any problems in, god, nearly 10 years. So long as you use a distro that sets Jack up properly it seems to be relatively painless, and JACK is pretty nice if you use all the tools for it. My problems are more that Linux just doesn't have the software that Windows/OSX have. On the other hand if I'm doing something weird with non DAW stuff, then Linux tends (for me) to be an easier experience.

    You don't have to pay the Apple tax to sign software with them for distribution outside the Mac App Store. You do have to pay the $100 per year annual fee. You don't have to pay even that if you use your own signing certificates. Though, I have gone with using Apple's certificates for the software I host on my own website because I think users will trust it more that way.

    Ah that's good to know.

    There are some issues with open source software and the App Store for iOS, but using and writing open source software for the Mac is easy. MacPorts covers most things I need that way pretty simply.

    That's true. I use homebrew for... actually not sure why I use that over MacPorts. And so long as stuff is in homebrew it's fine, but installing applications can be a real pain, particularly if the main developer is not an OSX user.

  • @cian said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    I've tried to go with Linux for my audio work many times. It's always been a mess. It's still kinda slowly getting better, so maybe some day. The best experience I've had with it is actually on the Raspberry Pi. You can get some pretty good results using one of the audio hats with the right drivers.

    I haven't really experienced any problems in, god, nearly 10 years. So long as you use a distro that sets Jack up properly it seems to be relatively painless, and JACK is pretty nice if you use all the tools for it. My problems are more that Linux just doesn't have the software that Windows/OSX have. On the other hand if I'm doing something weird with non DAW stuff, then Linux tends (for me) to be an easier experience.

    You don't have to pay the Apple tax to sign software with them for distribution outside the Mac App Store. You do have to pay the $100 per year annual fee. You don't have to pay even that if you use your own signing certificates. Though, I have gone with using Apple's certificates for the software I host on my own website because I think users will trust it more that way.

    Ah that's good to know.

    There are some issues with open source software and the App Store for iOS, but using and writing open source software for the Mac is easy. MacPorts covers most things I need that way pretty simply.

    That's true. I use homebrew for... actually not sure why I use that over MacPorts. And so long as stuff is in homebrew it's fine, but installing applications can be a real pain, particularly if the main developer is not an OSX user.

    JACK gives me nightmares. The number of times it just disconnected in the middle of sessions was more than I can count, and a few times it created wicked feedback loops that destroyed sessions.

  • McDMcD
    edited March 2022

    Everyone that used to buy computers with a ton of IO slots feel this type of pain.

    Why can't you give me some control over the configuration instead of selling me a "Happy Meal" with no substitutions?

    Because most people prefer the "Happy Meal" because they never learned how to cook and they are just hungry all the time and only have $2000 to spend on their next order.

    Can you imagine her surprise when someone shows her how to connect one of these to it?

    https://forum.audiob.us/uploads/editor/ka/hu9m2ycgla97.png

    That's like the Happy Meal with a Pizza on the side.

    "Too big and I'm allergic to cheese."

    OK. Vegan lasagna for one:

    https://forum.audiob.us/uploads/editor/jw/bfg2yi3cckux.png
    https://forum.audiob.us/uploads/editor/41/0dinvxdgks5q.png

    "Why doesn't Apple make these or just add them to the case?"

  • @mrufino1 said:

    @cian said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    I've tried to go with Linux for my audio work many times. It's always been a mess. It's still kinda slowly getting better, so maybe some day. The best experience I've had with it is actually on the Raspberry Pi. You can get some pretty good results using one of the audio hats with the right drivers.

    I haven't really experienced any problems in, god, nearly 10 years. So long as you use a distro that sets Jack up properly it seems to be relatively painless, and JACK is pretty nice if you use all the tools for it. My problems are more that Linux just doesn't have the software that Windows/OSX have. On the other hand if I'm doing something weird with non DAW stuff, then Linux tends (for me) to be an easier experience.

    You don't have to pay the Apple tax to sign software with them for distribution outside the Mac App Store. You do have to pay the $100 per year annual fee. You don't have to pay even that if you use your own signing certificates. Though, I have gone with using Apple's certificates for the software I host on my own website because I think users will trust it more that way.

    Ah that's good to know.

    There are some issues with open source software and the App Store for iOS, but using and writing open source software for the Mac is easy. MacPorts covers most things I need that way pretty simply.

    That's true. I use homebrew for... actually not sure why I use that over MacPorts. And so long as stuff is in homebrew it's fine, but installing applications can be a real pain, particularly if the main developer is not an OSX user.

    JACK gives me nightmares. The number of times it just disconnected in the middle of sessions was more than I can count, and a few times it created wicked feedback loops that destroyed sessions.

    Weird. Never really had any issues with it other than audio card stuff.

  • @cian said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    I've tried to go with Linux for my audio work many times. It's always been a mess. It's still kinda slowly getting better, so maybe some day. The best experience I've had with it is actually on the Raspberry Pi. You can get some pretty good results using one of the audio hats with the right drivers.

    I haven't really experienced any problems in, god, nearly 10 years. So long as you use a distro that sets Jack up properly it seems to be relatively painless, and JACK is pretty nice if you use all the tools for it. My problems are more that Linux just doesn't have the software that Windows/OSX have. On the other hand if I'm doing something weird with non DAW stuff, then Linux tends (for me) to be an easier experience.

    You don't have to pay the Apple tax to sign software with them for distribution outside the Mac App Store. You do have to pay the $100 per year annual fee. You don't have to pay even that if you use your own signing certificates. Though, I have gone with using Apple's certificates for the software I host on my own website because I think users will trust it more that way.

    Ah that's good to know.

    There are some issues with open source software and the App Store for iOS, but using and writing open source software for the Mac is easy. MacPorts covers most things I need that way pretty simply.

    That's true. I use homebrew for... actually not sure why I use that over MacPorts. And so long as stuff is in homebrew it's fine, but installing applications can be a real pain, particularly if the main developer is not an OSX user.

    My problems with Linux and audio kinda come as a combination of things we've both mentioned. I have a problem with trying to push it by doing things like trying to use RT kernels so I can get closer to what macOS lets me do and then that tends to make the rest of userland more unstable. The productivity apps that are available on Linux get a bit less usable when I do this. Newer kernels are better by default though. There's also the new PipeWire stuff that may make working with productivity apps and pro level audio more compatible. It's a promising development at the least.

    I use MacPorts because I feel more comfortable with the BSD style package manager and I really don't like the way Homebrew treats the permissions on /usr/local/bin. I have too much stuff I build locally that goes there to have homebrew screw with it. I like the way MacPorts puts this in /opt

    I'm not much of a gamer, but I do have a gaming machine sortof. The CPU died on that machine recently and when I rebuilt it I decided to go with Linux and Steam with Proton instead of Windows. I've been completely happy with this setup so far. The performance has been really good. It makes me wonder how well Windows productivity type apps would work on this setup.

  • edited March 2022

    @McD said:
    Everyone that used to buy computers with a ton of IO slots feel this type of pain.

    Why can't you give me some control over the configuration instead of selling me a "Happy Meal" with no substitutions?

    Because most people prefer the "Happy Meal" because they never learned how to cook and they are just hungry all the time and only have $2000 to spend on their next order.

    Can you imagine her surprise when someone shows her how to connect one of these to it?

    https://forum.audiob.us/uploads/editor/ka/hu9m2ycgla97.png

    That's like the Happy Meal with a Pizza on the side.

    "Too big and I'm allergic to cheese."

    OK. Vegan lasagna for one:

    https://forum.audiob.us/uploads/editor/jw/bfg2yi3cckux.png
    https://forum.audiob.us/uploads/editor/41/0dinvxdgks5q.png

    "Why doesn't Apple make these or just add them to the case?"

    But then youā€™d get the questions about why apple is using outdated sharc chipsā€¦even though ua has explained the difference between dedicated DSP and native processing many times.

  • @cian said:

    @mrufino1 said:

    @cian said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    I've tried to go with Linux for my audio work many times. It's always been a mess. It's still kinda slowly getting better, so maybe some day. The best experience I've had with it is actually on the Raspberry Pi. You can get some pretty good results using one of the audio hats with the right drivers.

    I haven't really experienced any problems in, god, nearly 10 years. So long as you use a distro that sets Jack up properly it seems to be relatively painless, and JACK is pretty nice if you use all the tools for it. My problems are more that Linux just doesn't have the software that Windows/OSX have. On the other hand if I'm doing something weird with non DAW stuff, then Linux tends (for me) to be an easier experience.

    You don't have to pay the Apple tax to sign software with them for distribution outside the Mac App Store. You do have to pay the $100 per year annual fee. You don't have to pay even that if you use your own signing certificates. Though, I have gone with using Apple's certificates for the software I host on my own website because I think users will trust it more that way.

    Ah that's good to know.

    There are some issues with open source software and the App Store for iOS, but using and writing open source software for the Mac is easy. MacPorts covers most things I need that way pretty simply.

    That's true. I use homebrew for... actually not sure why I use that over MacPorts. And so long as stuff is in homebrew it's fine, but installing applications can be a real pain, particularly if the main developer is not an OSX user.

    JACK gives me nightmares. The number of times it just disconnected in the middle of sessions was more than I can count, and a few times it created wicked feedback loops that destroyed sessions.

    Weird. Never really had any issues with it other than audio card stuff.

    I was recording a live band, so maybe linux, ardour, or whatever else just didnā€™t like that many inputs going at once. Anyway, Iā€™ve never regretted my move to Mac, and the only Mac Iā€™ve ever purchased New was my 2011 Mac mini, which was a family computer, not a music computer.

  • @mrufino1 said:

    @McD said:
    Everyone that used to buy computers with a ton of IO slots feel this type of pain.

    Why can't you give me some control over the configuration instead of selling me a "Happy Meal" with no substitutions?

    Because most people prefer the "Happy Meal" because they never learned how to cook and they are just hungry all the time and only have $2000 to spend on their next order.

    Can you imagine her surprise when someone shows her how to connect one of these to it?

    https://forum.audiob.us/uploads/editor/ka/hu9m2ycgla97.png

    That's like the Happy Meal with a Pizza on the side.

    "Too big and I'm allergic to cheese."

    OK. Vegan lasagna for one:

    https://forum.audiob.us/uploads/editor/jw/bfg2yi3cckux.png
    https://forum.audiob.us/uploads/editor/41/0dinvxdgks5q.png

    "Why doesn't Apple make these or just add them to the case?"

    But then youā€™d get the questions about why apple is using outdated sharc chipsā€¦even though ua has explained the difference between dedicated DSP and native processing many times.

    Oh, a very long time ago I had a SHARC based multiprocessor system on my desk. I think it was like 24 processors and cost a ton of money. Fortunately, I didn't pay for it. Unfortunately, I didn't get to do any audio processing with it. It was fun to play with though.

  • edited March 2022

    I always go to YouTube ā€˜creatorsā€™ that base their entire channel on not using computers for my computer reviews.

    Iā€™m now searching through the channels of YouTube photographers for advice on how to bleed a radiator.

  • edited March 2022

    @MrSmileZ said:
    Build a hackintosh with an Amd processor that kills thisā€¦1/3 the price

    not sure if you can kill that processor what is inside with AMD :-)

    @cyberheater
    I can understand that she's really disappointed because of the lack of audio input but surely most of the studio people buying this will already have an audio interface.

    exactly, argument "it doesn't have inputs" is complete nonsense, you always use external inteface and it makes sense because 100 people == 100 different needs for audio interface ..

    she also pretty much doesn't understand how M1 works, she stating that she is getting pretty big cpu load even through just few things are running - "but it is not problem"..

    that is because of CPU polling which we know from iOS - it's literally that CPU is running on low power until it is not needed, so few plugins may look that cpu load is high, but as she would add more and more plugins, result would be CPU load will go even lower at some point, as other cores will start go "full throttle" when CPU demand rises.

    M1 MAX is hugely powerful CPU, which puts on knee, when used on it's full power, any other intel / amd cpu very easily ..

  • @mrufino1 said:

    I was recording a live band, so maybe linux, ardour, or whatever else just didnā€™t like that many inputs going at once. Anyway, Iā€™ve never regretted my move to Mac, and the only Mac Iā€™ve ever purchased New was my 2011 Mac mini, which was a family computer, not a music computer.

    Probably related to the audio interface/card. Like I said all the stability issues I've ever run into related to problems with drivers.

    Incidentally I'm not really arguing anyone should use Linux - I also use a Mac and I'm (mostly) happy with it. I just think it's a shame that the extra polish never quite happened for audio on Linux, as I was able to get very good performance out of it.

  • @NeonSilicon said:

    My problems with Linux and audio kinda come as a combination of things we've both mentioned. I have a problem with trying to push it by doing things like trying to use RT kernels so I can get closer to what macOS lets me do and then that tends to make the rest of userland more unstable. The productivity apps that are available on Linux get a bit less usable when I do this. Newer kernels are better by default though. There's also the new PipeWire stuff that may make working with productivity apps and pro level audio more compatible. It's a promising development at the least.

    That could be part of it. I always used multiple kernels (something which Linux makes very easy), and used my realtime kernel (which hasn't really been necessary for many years now) only for audio stuff. That would have been about ten years ago - realtime kernels haven't really been necessary for many years now, and I still got very low latency that last time I did anything on a pretty standard kernel using Arch (3 years ago - I'm pretty much all OSX these days). Pulse Audio is garbage though. Glad that's finally being killed.

    It was ridiculous how much configuration you had to do to get good audio performance, but once you did it the performance was exceptionally good. That said, there were audio distributions which did all the work for you and performed extremely well. The ridiculously prolific Filipe Coelho (also responsible for turning JACK into something that's theoretically useful but impossible to configure, into something that was very practical) got his start creating one of the best distros.

    I use MacPorts because I feel more comfortable with the BSD style package manager and I really don't like the way Homebrew treats the permissions on /usr/local/bin. I have too much stuff I build locally that goes there to have homebrew screw with it. I like the way MacPorts puts this in /opt

    Yeah I was just googling the differences and homebrew seems like a really bad idea. I probably picked it for the simple reason that MacPorts didn't have what I needed at the time. But now I'm wondering how my current machine (due to be replaced by a new Macbook Pro tomorrow - yay, lets see if this one also can last 8 years) is still functioning.

    I'm not much of a gamer, but I do have a gaming machine sortof. The CPU died on that machine recently and when I rebuilt it I decided to go with Linux and Steam with Proton instead of Windows. I've been completely happy with this setup so far. The performance has been really good. It makes me wonder how well Windows productivity type apps would work on this setup.

    I think the biggest problem is that the Linux UIs/desktops mostly kind of suck. Though given everything these days seems to be built using some kind of Electron nightmare, not sure how much that truly matters at this point.

    If my only choice was between Windows and Linux it would be Linux everytime though. Windows is a maintenance nightmare. I used to have to reinstall it every 1-2 years.

  • Until they put a U87 in the air pod pros I will never use them in the studio.

  • @Tarekith said:
    Until they put a U87 in the air pod pros I will never use them in the studio.

    U87? Why would you use one of those? The AirPods sound exactly the same. Plus, you can sing 50ms ahead of the beat and be in timeā€¦

  • @cyberheater said:
    I can understand that she's really disappointed because of the lack of audio input but surely most of the studio people buying this will already have an audio interface.

    I won't buy a new Mac mini or studio because it dose not have an audio input and my HiFi TV Blu-ray Player CD DAC Tuner x2 Turntables + x2 Phono Amps + Headphone Amp + Tape Player X2 Mac minis + Windows Computers run through my Topping D50s DAC { Well actually only One of my Mac's runs through the Topping DAC as I do all my recording Via DAW Audasity on that Mac } & Speakers & Amp so I can record from any source to my computers. BUT

    You say all I need is a Audio interface to replace my missing Audio input on the new Mac's Is that right and if so What audio Interface should I get for my HiFi System and new M1 Mac Mini.
    Thanks

  • I'm sorry but this video doesn't even deserve an answer. The bullshit level is just too high.

  • @cian said:
    [...]

    I think the biggest problem is that the Linux UIs/desktops mostly kind of suck. Though given everything these days seems to be built using some kind of Electron nightmare, not sure how much that truly matters at this point.

    If my only choice was between Windows and Linux it would be Linux everytime though. Windows is a maintenance nightmare. I used to have to reinstall it every 1-2 years.

    Yeah, I agree. I went with Manjaro on my new install so I could get a feel for what Valve are doing with the Steam Deck. The distro is actually pretty nice, but both the default Gnome and KDE based DE's leave me wondering why. My first try at the XFCE install failed, something to do with my graphics card. I'll try it again eventually when I get some more time. It is still a better experience for me than Windows.

  • @NeonSilicon said:
    Yeah, I agree. I went with Manjaro on my new install so I could get a feel for what Valve are doing with the Steam Deck. The distro is actually pretty nice, but both the default Gnome and KDE based DE's leave me wondering why. My first try at the XFCE install failed, something to do with my graphics card. I'll try it again eventually when I get some more time. It is still a better experience for me than Windows.

    XFCE is like going back in time to the late 90s. My solution is usually to not have a desktop and just install a tiling window manager, and then set up some daemons for printing, etc. If you use keyboard driven launcher (think Alfred) this can be a pretty decent experience for development, and it ultralight weight. Definitely not something I'd give my parents though...

    I've heard nice things about Deepin and ElementaryOS's desktop. Not tried either though. I probably should.

  • @FloRi89 said:
    I'm sorry but this video doesn't even deserve an answer. The bullshit level is just too high.

    <3


  • @FloRi89 said:
    I'm sorry but this video doesn't even deserve an answer. The bullshit level is just too high.

    But there's a large audience that would agree "Apple needs to give me more ports (headphone, audio in/out and USB types)". For musicians, wired headphones require you to
    either:

    1. add a multipart audio interface to the single USB port
    2. use a simple audio adapter and accept no other connections allowed (including power)

    If apple offered an adapter with:
    1. a power port
    2. a USB port (lots of grumbling over the type selected, of course)
    3. a headphone jack

    Of course we'd want lightning and USB-C versions but USB-C would help moving forward.

    Now most imagine such a device is just a glob of plastic around a pigtail and 3 connector ports and costs less than a $1 but the reality is that someone needs to make a small chip to handle the Audio to digital conversions needed for the headphone/mic connector and potentially more for USB and power connectors.

    Then we'd just STFU and accept a well thought out mobile solution even if it seems like a bit of a kludge... it would make out lives better as mobile artists and consumers.

    We'd pay $100 and bitch like hell but we would STFU.

    Is there a 3rd party product with these specs?

    I look occasionally and find some multi-media adapters but they usually add HDMI and avoid the headphone option. Is there an HDMI to headphone dongle type adapter?

  • @McD said:
    Is there a 3rd party product with these specs?

  • McDMcD
    edited March 2022

    @AlmostAnonymous said:

    @McD said:
    Is there a 3rd party product with these specs?

    https://forum.audiob.us/uploads/editor/tq/aa4hf3tmqvlk.jpg

    [humor intended]

    Apple's estimated price: $799. Never made it to market but there would be an amazing piece of silicon in the large white plastic junction box. Dealbreaker: Only 1 device at a time can be enabled and still no POWER connection. Lot's of refunds processed. You can't tell from the photo but it has a small fan that's pretty loud... like a tiny jet that plays F#4 down about 15 cents. They call it the tritone whistler.

    [carry on]

  • edited March 2022

    @mcd it didn't have composite video, so it's a no go for me.

    But seriously if you're just looking for a couple USB ports, power, and headphones.....here's that with the hdmi....

    https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Nintendo-Switch-Adapter-Charging/dp/B083FC34BN?ref_=ast_sto_dp

    They're quite common.

  • Every computer always doesn't have enought ports. My little older Desktop PC has 4 USB ports, the new Mac Studio has 4 USB-C and 2 USB-A on the back, 2 USB-C on the front. I mean sure, if you are going to connect 4 4K displays to it you are running out of ports quickly, but quite frankly if you are going to drop 10k on a computer rig you should be able to buy a USB hub.

    @McD said:

    @FloRi89 said:
    I'm sorry but this video doesn't even deserve an answer. The bullshit level is just too high.

    But there's a large audience that would agree "Apple needs to give me more ports (headphone, audio in/out and USB types)". For musicians, wired headphones require you to
    either:

    1. add a multipart audio interface to the single USB port
    2. use a simple audio adapter and accept no other connections allowed (including power)

    If apple offered an adapter with:
    1. a power port
    2. a USB port (lots of grumbling over the type selected, of course)
    3. a headphone jack

    Of course we'd want lightning and USB-C versions but USB-C would help moving forward.

    Now most imagine such a device is just a glob of plastic around a pigtail and 3 connector ports and costs less than a $1 but the reality is that someone needs to make a small chip to handle the Audio to digital conversions needed for the headphone/mic connector and potentially more for USB and power connectors.

    Then we'd just STFU and accept a well thought out mobile solution even if it seems like a bit of a kludge... it would make out lives better as mobile artists and consumers.

    We'd pay $100 and bitch like hell but we would STFU.

    Is there a 3rd party product with these specs?

    I look occasionally and find some multi-media adapters but they usually add HDMI and avoid the headphone option. Is there an HDMI to headphone dongle type adapter?

    I assume you are talking about the iPad now, that's a different story. The dongle madness is strong here, but the Mac Studio really is a different beast.

  • The benchmarks are in and as expected it's pretty poor performance for heavy compute tasks. Not good for my workflow, but for the target market it's a nice machine. I think they should push the fact it's quite portable. This is the main benefit for this type of device.

  • @Carnbot said:
    The benchmarks are in and as expected it's pretty poor performance for heavy compute tasks. Not good for my workflow, but for the target market it's a nice machine. I think they should push the fact it's quite portable. This is the main benefit for this type of device.

    I'm assuming you mean GPU compute tasks? The CPU looks to be benching right about where I'd expect from the number of cores of M1 based performance cores.

    I think they should be marketing at exactly where they are, video and graphics creation studios. The video decode, image processing, and neural cores are going to be where these things have their strengths show the most. And that's going to kinda be the problem with where Apple is heading for me. These new machines aren't going to align with what I need compute wise. Luckily, the plain M1 will handle all of my daily and audio tasks now, but when I want to go and start doing some heavy numerical work again, Apple's big machines probably aren't going to work for me.

    I am very interested to see how these work for 3D modeling stuff though. How well Blender develops on them as it gets more optimized will be interesting too.

  • edited March 2022

    @NeonSilicon said:

    @Carnbot said:
    The benchmarks are in and as expected it's pretty poor performance for heavy compute tasks. Not good for my workflow, but for the target market it's a nice machine. I think they should push the fact it's quite portable. This is the main benefit for this type of device.

    I'm assuming you mean GPU compute tasks? The CPU looks to be benching right about where I'd expect from the number of cores of M1 based performance cores.

    I think they should be marketing at exactly where they are, video and graphics creation studios. The video decode, image processing, and neural cores are going to be where these things have their strengths show the most. And that's going to kinda be the problem with where Apple is heading for me. These new machines aren't going to align with what I need compute wise. Luckily, the plain M1 will handle all of my daily and audio tasks now, but when I want to go and start doing some heavy numerical work again, Apple's big machines probably aren't going to work for me.

    I am very interested to see how these work for 3D modeling stuff though. How well Blender develops on them as it gets more optimized will be interesting too.

    Yes, GPU compute speeds. It's good for video but not so much for 3D.
    But I can see there's a target market for it, but there's a lot of graphics users who this won't work well for including me since my current PC outperforms it on a lot of the things I use it for.

    And crucially I can upgrade my GPU whenever I need to. Which is a dealbreaker for me.

  • @Carnbot said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    @Carnbot said:
    The benchmarks are in and as expected it's pretty poor performance for heavy compute tasks. Not good for my workflow, but for the target market it's a nice machine. I think they should push the fact it's quite portable. This is the main benefit for this type of device.

    I'm assuming you mean GPU compute tasks? The CPU looks to be benching right about where I'd expect from the number of cores of M1 based performance cores.

    I think they should be marketing at exactly where they are, video and graphics creation studios. The video decode, image processing, and neural cores are going to be where these things have their strengths show the most. And that's going to kinda be the problem with where Apple is heading for me. These new machines aren't going to align with what I need compute wise. Luckily, the plain M1 will handle all of my daily and audio tasks now, but when I want to go and start doing some heavy numerical work again, Apple's big machines probably aren't going to work for me.

    I am very interested to see how these work for 3D modeling stuff though. How well Blender develops on them as it gets more optimized will be interesting too.

    Yes, GPU compute speeds. It's good for video but not so much for 3D.
    But I can see there's a target market for it, but there's a lot of graphics users who this won't work well for including me since my current PC outperforms it on a lot of the things I use it for.

    And crucially I can upgrade my GPU whenever I need to. Which is a dealbreaker for me.

    I'm waiting for some deeper investigations of how well these work for 3D work. The benchmarks I've seen aren't using paths that are optimized for the GPU's in even the M1 Pro. I'm going to wait to see how well they work in applications. But even if they are better in real world application use than it looks now, you would still end up paying for all that die space that is dedicated to video decoders and neural engines that are pointless for your work.

    I think the days of upgradable GPU's are numbered. I expect AMD and Intel to move to more integrated graphics too over the next few years. The advantages of the throughput on these designs is pretty big. I think that's a big part of why Nvidia wanted the ARM purchase too. It'll be interesting to see what Apple does with the Mac Pro when they release it. Do they do away with dedicated GPU's and the Afterburner cards? Are Intel and AMD going to start making some CPU's with integrated FPGA chiplets. The Fugaku is now the fastest supercomputer and it doesn't use dedicated GPU's to do it. It feels to me that we are at a point where the direction of computing is changing.

  • @NeonSilicon said:

    @Carnbot said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    @Carnbot said:
    The benchmarks are in and as expected it's pretty poor performance for heavy compute tasks. Not good for my workflow, but for the target market it's a nice machine. I think they should push the fact it's quite portable. This is the main benefit for this type of device.

    I'm assuming you mean GPU compute tasks? The CPU looks to be benching right about where I'd expect from the number of cores of M1 based performance cores.

    I think they should be marketing at exactly where they are, video and graphics creation studios. The video decode, image processing, and neural cores are going to be where these things have their strengths show the most. And that's going to kinda be the problem with where Apple is heading for me. These new machines aren't going to align with what I need compute wise. Luckily, the plain M1 will handle all of my daily and audio tasks now, but when I want to go and start doing some heavy numerical work again, Apple's big machines probably aren't going to work for me.

    I am very interested to see how these work for 3D modeling stuff though. How well Blender develops on them as it gets more optimized will be interesting too.

    Yes, GPU compute speeds. It's good for video but not so much for 3D.
    But I can see there's a target market for it, but there's a lot of graphics users who this won't work well for including me since my current PC outperforms it on a lot of the things I use it for.

    And crucially I can upgrade my GPU whenever I need to. Which is a dealbreaker for me.

    I'm waiting for some deeper investigations of how well these work for 3D work. The benchmarks I've seen aren't using paths that are optimized for the GPU's in even the M1 Pro. I'm going to wait to see how well they work in applications. But even if they are better in real world application use than it looks now, you would still end up paying for all that die space that is dedicated to video decoders and neural engines that are pointless for your work.

    I think the days of upgradable GPU's are numbered. I expect AMD and Intel to move to more integrated graphics too over the next few years. The advantages of the throughput on these designs is pretty big. I think that's a big part of why Nvidia wanted the ARM purchase too. It'll be interesting to see what Apple does with the Mac Pro when they release it. Do they do away with dedicated GPU's and the Afterburner cards? Are Intel and AMD going to start making some CPU's with integrated FPGA chiplets. The Fugaku is now the fastest supercomputer and it doesn't use dedicated GPU's to do it. It feels to me that we are at a point where the direction of computing is changing.

    Yes, it will be interesting to see where the market goes next but it's not changing any time soon. The building PC market is huge and if it means more choices of integrating GPU + CPU into the same interchangeble SOC that's great, there will be just more options.

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