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Example X2+AUM+AudioBus setup

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Comments

  • @tja: those are audio destinations.

    You need to add a destination for your MIDI source (virtual midi in)

  • edited August 2022
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  • When you tap, you will get a popup showing everything you can send midi to in your project

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  • @tja said:
    I found Send Sync now, it is greyed-out so that it was nearly invisible to me 😅
    But still, I see no way to enable it.

    The sync options cannot be changed and are disabled while the transport is running, maybe that was the case? Also, if the MIDI destination of the instrument is offline or not yet selected. But that wasn't the case from your screenshot.

    Yes.
    What to say.

    How could the average casual user know or remember that?

    They couldn't. But these "advanced" things are really not intended to be immediately understood by casual users IMO. I mean, this is hardcore techy stuff by its very nature (unfortunately), it's not something you can convey in a few buttons in a UI really. That's what the almost 100-page manual is for 🤔 (sorry...)

    As neat as automatic source names are, I think that the most stable and functional connection would be best as default.

    Yes, possibly... will think about it.

  • @tja said:
    Bammm, and it is running 😅

    And now I am wondering what would happen when I add Xequence Destination as destination too.
    X2 recording it's own output? 😳

    That should work. It would give you two sets of cables to send from Xequence to Loopy -- which would be needed if using an MPE synth along with other synths. Note that if sending to more than one synth in Loopy, you will need to set up channel filters for the destination synth so that it only receives MIDI on the intended channel.

  • OK, I’ve been able to observe that when an X2 count-in is used, Loopy Pro song position jumps to bar 1025 after one bar of count-in when I press the X2 rec button. This happens after one bar of count-in no matter how many bars of count-in are set.

    It’s possible to observe this by having Loopy Pro in popover mode over X2.

    X2 and Loopy Pro are the only two apps running. One instrument in X2 pointing to Loopy Pro. LP set to sync from Virtual MIDI In. Link disabled all around.

    Turning off count-in cures the problem.

  • wimwim
    edited August 2022

    When record is pressed with a one bar count-in enabled, X2 sends song position 16368, followed by Continue, then clock messages. With a two bar count-in song position 16352 is sent, three bars 16336, four bars 16320.

    With no count-in, or if play is pressed, song position zero is sent.

    This seems odd to me. Should clock be sent at all during count-in? Shouldn’t SPP zero + start be sent at the end of the count-in?

  • Thanks for the investigation! I'll check on this later today.

    @wim said:
    When record is pressed with a one bar count-in enabled, X2 sends song position 16368, followed by Continue, then clock messages. With a two bar count-in song position 16352 is sent, three bars 16336, four bars 16320.

    That is when starting recording at bar 1, right? That sounds to me like Xequence is trying to send SPP with negative values, which then wrap around the 14-bit SPP value to 16384 minus the negative value. That obviously needs to be fixed!

    This seems odd to me. Should clock be sent at all during count-in? Shouldn’t SPP zero + start be sent at the end of the count-in?

    Well, first of all, it's a "philosophical" question: Should a host start its slaves already during count-in (and xx bars before the current song position), or only after count-in? I'll have to see how Xequence handles Ableton Link Start/Stop in that regard (I remember discussions taking place with users about which behaviour is preferable).

    However, it sounds to me like that for technical reasons alone, the slaves can only be started AFTER the count-in, because as you thankfully found out, it's not possible to send an SPP with negative values, so it wouldn't even be possible to start the slave at a negative song position (which would be required for count-in at song start).

  • @wim -- just confirmed, thanks for the report. Currently, if count-in is used, you have to make sure that the count-in never starts before the first bar, otherwise an invalid SPP will be sent. A workaround for now is to just shift the whole song bars to the right if you want to start recording at the beginning.

    I'll change the behaviour of MIDI Sync for Xequence 2.4 so that count-in is not included and slaves are only SPP'd / started AFTER the count-in.

  • ... thinking about it more, maybe this should be an option in the advanced sync settings... if you choose to include the count-in in the sync, then Xequence could still make an exception if recording is started on the first bar and then not include the count-in to stay compatible with SPP.

    what do people think, is including the count-in in the slaves generally preferable or not? How do other daws handle this?

  • @SevenSystems said:
    ... thinking about it more, maybe this should be an option in the advanced sync settings... if you choose to include the count-in in the sync, then Xequence could still make an exception if recording is started on the first bar and then not include the count-in to stay compatible with SPP.

    what do people think, is including the count-in in the slaves generally preferable or not? How do other daws handle this?

    I would not send count-in spp or at least I’d make it an option to not send it. if someone had set up things to trigger when the clock starts , the count-in would trigger those prematurely.

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @SevenSystems said:
    ... thinking about it more, maybe this should be an option in the advanced sync settings... if you choose to include the count-in in the sync, then Xequence could still make an exception if recording is started on the first bar and then not include the count-in to stay compatible with SPP.

    what do people think, is including the count-in in the slaves generally preferable or not? How do other daws handle this?

    I would not send count-in spp or at least I’d make it an option to not send it. if someone had set up things to trigger when the clock starts , the count-in would trigger those prematurely.

    OK, yes, sounds right to me too. I've just re-checked how Xequence's Ableton Link Start/Stop sync is implemented, and it too doesn't start Link until the count-in is over.

    Ah nice. Helpful user input!

  • Nice! This is a useful setup, and a workable way to use audio clips on a timeline with X2. Having count-in work as expected rounds it out nicely. If X2 gets split screen capability it'll be a darn nice little setup.

  • @wim said:
    Nice! This is a useful setup, and a workable way to use audio clips on a timeline with X2. Having count-in work as expected rounds it out nicely. If X2 gets split screen capability it'll be a darn nice little setup.

    Yeah, I've been waiting for this day essentially since 2017 😂 it was really the main reason MIDI sync was added.

    I've looked into split screen too -- the main question is what to do with the toolbars then. Make them horizontally scrollable? Make them squish together as needed? Etc... but that's a discussion for another day / thread :)

  • Whoa, that's pretty nifty how you managed broadcast a popup about the SPP on count-in thing already. B)

  • @wim said:
    Whoa, that's pretty nifty how you managed broadcast a popup about the SPP on count-in thing already. B)

    Maybe I'm overzealous on bug fixing and keeping users happy 🤣

  • I have question regarding this setup: Why do channels in AUM have a MasterBus node in the effects chain rather than having it setup in the output of the channel?

  • @Foleslaw said:
    I have question regarding this setup: Why do channels in AUM have a MasterBus node in the effects chain rather than having it setup in the output of the channel?

    No special reason, just the way it ended up. I think I had been experimenting with putting something on the master bus and had originally kept the default output there so I could easily bypass the master for particular lanes and then removed them at some point.

  • @MisplacedDevelopment said:

    @Foleslaw said:
    I have question regarding this setup: Why do channels in AUM have a MasterBus node in the effects chain rather than having it setup in the output of the channel?

    No special reason, just the way it ended up. I think I had been experimenting with putting something on the master bus and had originally kept the default output there so I could easily bypass the master for particular lanes and then removed them at some point.

    Ok. Thought some new ‚top-secret-producer’ method for me to learn :)

  • @SevenSystems said:
    @pr4y_4_beats @espiegel123 actually, you should be able to get full, instant synchronisation between Xequence and Loopy Pro (that includes absolute song position, not only inside a bar) by using MIDI Sync:

    0) Disable Ableton Link in both apps
    1) In Loopy Pro, go to Settings -> Synchronization, and unter "MIDI Clock Sources", enable "Virtual MIDI In"
    2) In Xequence, create a new instrument, set its MIDI Destination to "Loopy Pro", enable "Send Sync", and in the "..." options, make sure "Absolute" is turned on
    3) Loopy Pro should now follow Xequence's transport completely, including tempo, start, stop and position (for some reason, Loopy Pro will only update the transport position when Xequence is playing, not when you only position the cursor in Xequence's ruler)

    This seems to work most of the time from my brief tests, but absolute song position is not always correctly synchronized. I'll look into that more when I get a chance. Not sure if it's a problem in Loopy or Xequence.

    Wonderful!

  • I do miss Ableton Link in the setup as above. (To integrate blocswave for instance). But maybe there’s a workaround for that

  • @prtr_jan said:
    I do miss Ableton Link in the setup as above. (To integrate blocswave for instance). But maybe there’s a workaround for that

    I think there are ways to generate Ableton Link sync (start / stop / tempo) from MIDI sync (Link doesn't support song position though)

  • @prtr_jan said:
    I do miss Ableton Link in the setup as above. (To integrate blocswave for instance). But maybe there’s a workaround for that

    If you don’t need SPP, you can use Link

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @prtr_jan said:
    I do miss Ableton Link in the setup as above. (To integrate blocswave for instance). But maybe there’s a workaround for that

    If you don’t need SPP, you can use Link

    Thanks. I’m going to switch as needed.

  • edited August 2022

    Just an update on the count-in issue, it'll be configurable (per MIDI destination!) in Xequence 2.4:

    • MIDI Sync: When recording, the Count-In can now be excluded so that the slaves only start after the Count-In. Configurable separately per instrument in the advanced sync settings.

    Options shmoptions! 😍

  • @SevenSystems : can xequence's transport be set up to be triggered remotely? (I.e. can one set it up so that play and stop can be triggered by midi events?

  • @espiegel123 said:
    @SevenSystems : can xequence's transport be set up to be triggered remotely? (I.e. can one set it up so that play and stop can be triggered by midi events?

    No, but gets requested a lot, and firmly on the roadmap (84923849 miles long and longer than the Earth's circumference!)

  • @SevenSystems said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @SevenSystems : can xequence's transport be set up to be triggered remotely? (I.e. can one set it up so that play and stop can be triggered by midi events?

    No, but gets requested a lot, and firmly on the roadmap (84923849 miles long and longer than the Earth's circumference!)

    For the workflow with loopy, it would be pretty essential element, imo.

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