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Comments
Thank you for your insight. I wasn't familar with Staffpad - what an amazing app!
Those extras, like slightly shifting the note timing, changing velocities, layering, panning, really adds to the realism and 'feel '. You two are on too something very cool here, 'professional' imo.
I’m excited to see this release of energy.
The @LinearLineman m staged me that @jankun had Staffpad and we exchanged files and really enjoyed building version on version.
@jankun has as unique a vision for music I have heard I told him one of his songs reminded me of Van Dykes Parks and he enjoyed the comparison.
I’m so to be late to the party… I caught Covid and an working through it. I just praying I didn’t pass it on to those I love.
Here is the version I made from @jankun’s creation:
@JanKun @McD the developments in the arrangement are really interesting. It is a really enjoyable process to witness.
Yes of course.
He's a brilliant composer, as are you mate.
Staffpad is a nice app for collaboration because there is no audio involved, collaborators only exchange scores.
It is so easy to edit existing scores that in no time the arrangement can take a different direction.
If you're enjoying this kind of development, maybe you'll enjoy the app!
@JanKun @McD
Wow. I’m curious about the other apps used. And the mixing is amazing. I feel immersed and surrounded by the orchestra. It really breathes. I feel there’s something more than just panning going on here.
Thank you for listening and for the kind words!
For the mix, I can only speak for my version, I don't know how @McD mixed his own versions, he could probably elaborate.
The only thing I did was to try to pan each sections to get as close as a real orchestra positioning. In terms of depth I just used the reverb included in Staffpad, even if it is not perfect (I don't really like the modulation they include in it but it does the job somehow). I applied different amounts of reverb according to each section. Strings being in front of the stage, they received less reverb. The percussions are the further away so they are almost completely wet. As opposed to typical rock pop and electronic mixes where reverb control is the often the key to create a sense of depth, it seems you can really go crazy with the reverb on the orchestra. This kind of make sense. I don't know if you have ever been to a full orchestra performance. 80 musicians in a big room...
I also worked on the volume for each sections. The closer the more volume. That's all I did actually. Ideally I should have exported all audio stems in a DAW, but that's a lot of tracks and I was lazy 🤭. But this is something I might considering for next projects. For more realism, EQ could also help. The further away the darker. And I think a good way to spatialize would be to use 3 send reverbs with different pre delays and work on early reflections depending on the position of each section. That's a lot of work but that could help improve the overall realism of the mock up.
The other apps used are Cubasis, Ravenscroft and Decentsampler to work on the piano sound. @Mcd wrote the Piano line inside staffpad. Everything was perfectly aligned and played at a single velocity. So first I edited the MIDI, slightly shifting the notes and bringing more variation to the velocity to humanize the part. I also used the sustain pedal instead of letting the MIDI notes playing the full length of the note. I did this because Ravenscroft has this beautiful sympathetic string resonance when used with sustain pedal. I think it sounded more realistic. I layered Ravenscroft with a felt Piano from pianobook. I think it is called the claustrophobic piano. I like the low end of this Piano plus it includes nice pedals and keys release sounds which you might hear if you listen closely.
There's another thing, the level are quite hot by the end of the track but strangely it didn't peak, I think staffpad might apply some compression or limiting in the background which might also glue the whole thing. This is just my guess, so take it with a pinch of salt. But for your project I would say try to push the things a bit in terms of loudness. It might not work all the time. Or maybe I am completely wrong and it was only beginner's luck😉
Glad you enjoyed it.
I hope we'll work together someday. Do you have any link to any of your staffpad creations ? I'd be happy to listen !
@JanKun.
Thank you for the insights and the extended look into your process. Thanks also for the reflection (hah!) on reverbs.
Good tip about the compressor within StaffPad. I have been thinking about rendering in StaffPad and then mixing outside of it but now with the latest import audio update and hearing how you positioned things within StaffPad I am reconsidering my workflow.
I don’t have anything from StaffPad up yet. I’m still learning it and time for music has dwindled lately. I will send you some sketches I have when it gets to a better spot soon.
For the 3rd version I inherited @jankun’ panning and reverb settings but not his audio of Ravenscroft. But in my version I changed the piano the Spitfire Felt Piano.
I added the creamy open harmonic violins and an oboe using a section of Junkun’ word and recreated the melody but keeping the interesting rhythmic notation. He’s very clever rhythmically and labors over his parts. So in a sense he has a 50% claim on the new intro. By this point I was sick the piano and wanted to bury it.
No real concern for mixing other than adjusting volume using ppp-fff notations on the score. Staffpad just sounds great because the sample set were recorded in large recording halls using professional orchestras.
First I listened to the original @McD version that has a kind of wistful melancholy. Then started up the @JanKun version and I wondered how this could turn into James Bond but then … yes!
I'm really amazed at both of your skills with StaffPad and also orchestration.
Also, @McD, I too have been a big fan of Van Dyke Parks. a unique musical visionary.
@jankun does’ not need a collaborator but if you feed him something with some space he really go in a difrection you would have thought of yourself.
The @jankun and @paulieworld collabs will be epic for unique ideas and flawless execution.
I’d love someone to take one of my sketches and add a B section.
Glad I came back to this thread, otherwise I would have missed this piece. I’d be completely lost in an app like Staffpad but you and @JanKun really are making marvelous music with it.
Hope you are feeling well and that those you love stay Covid free.
I’m doing penance for introducing this virus into my family at the worst time possible. So far wife and daughter test negative but I think there’s a 5 day ramp up before it tests positive which is why even with testing it spreads. I hope I have that wrong.
Thank you for your kind words. Staffpad is an amazing app. I really wish more people joined us. The app might seem intimidating she some people, but it is actually incredibly fun.
big fan of Van Dyke Parks here too! I'll post soon the song that reminded @McD of VDP. I am not sure people will agree with him, but it was nevertheless very flattering !
Glad @McD posted his latest version because it sounds really great, brings a lot of different flavours, and it also shows the potential for collaborative work on Staffpad.
I love this kind of stuff!. I really enjoy listening to songs that resemble a physical space, like if you were in a room with the performers. A great example is the Moldy Peaches record, which maybe doesn’t even use reverb. I read they used a RadioShack 360^ microphone, the conference room kind, to record the drums. I’m terrible at reverb, but it’s probably cos I don’t understand it.
You can hear this in many lofi folk recorded in minimalist conditions. Another great exemple is Nick Drake's Pink Moon. You can hear his nails picking the strings. All those little details and "imperfections" that are often erased in modern production where everything has to be perfect. It doesn't mean it is bad. It is just a very different aesthetic.
Lately I have been listening to old big band ensemble like Duke Ellington orchestra. The condition in which his early releases were recorded are very similar. Sometimes, just one mic. They had to really think about each musicians placement in the room before hitting the record button. Same goes with early Motown or Stax and recordings.
Fantastic examples of what collaboration can achieve… well done both of you!
Thank you for listening ! Collaboration is the best way to get out of the comfort zone and to open to other's people workflow and creativity. There's only benefit. Glad you enjoyed the track !