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Ableton Live FTW, finally sick of the iPad for music

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Comments

  • edited January 2023

    @krassmann said:

    @scrape said:

    @krassmann said:
    @mjm1138 I support what @mistercharlie said. Take some time, download demo versions and evaluate them. I did the same. We are living in a time where are many great DAWs to choose from. Upfront you should ask yourself if and how you want to use your iPad with your desktop setup.

    If you want to use the iPad as a sound module, best get an iConnectivity audio interface (multiple bi-directional low latency virtual audio channels between iPad and desktop). IDAM is a pain. I personally planned to do this but actually I find it too complicated to always manage two computers for a project.

    If you want to use the iPad as a sketchbook then Cubasis -> Cubase and Garage Band -> Logic is the natural choice. There are many apps that can export projects to Ableton Live, Korg Gadget for instance. Note that Bitwig has also Ableton Link and can also open Ableton projects - works great with Gadget and Launchpad projects, works bad with the Ableton Note app. There is a possible good usage of Drambo on an Apple Silicon Mac with Logic or Ableton. FL Studio also has an iPad app.

    If you want to save money go for Logic, FL Studio or Reaper. I find Reaper really cool as it supports lots of modern stuff like Clap plugins.

    If you do electronic music or Hip Hop go with Ableton or Bitwig. Both have a session mode and a timeline mode where you can easily record your session jam into timeline. Logic recently added a session mode but I don’t find it good. In these genres FL Studio is also strong but lacks too many “traditional” features.

    I went with Bitwig because I love the modulation capabilities and the workflow. Especially the workflow of Bitwig is superior to all other DAWs. It has so many nice little tricks that just makes you more efficient. YouTuber Alckemy Neuro made a great personal comparison video between Ableton and Bitwig that just nails it and shows the strengths and weaknesses of both DAWs. Actually I bought Ableton, too. The DAWs with a rather traditional workflow like Logic, Cubase, Studio One, etc. are too old school for my taste.

    I’ve been Bitwig curious for a few years but this guy loses his argument with himself. I couldn’t live with everything that’s still missing, especially Max 4 Live.

    I think that’s why he is using both. Max for Live is cool but the learning curve is steep. I didn’t manage to do anything by myself so far, while it was easy for me to get started with Bitwig’s Grid because of my experience with Drambo. There are really cool M4L devices, though. Well, both environments have their pros and cons.

    you don't have to create your own M4L devices as there are thousands of M4L devices already created but still I wouldn't say the M4L learning curve is steep but it depends what you are comparing the learning curve to?

    I admit making something like this is beyond me

    no Wookie noises on bitwig

  • Burned again! I was getting into using Drambo with an analog synth, for sequencing and FX, but after spending half an hour trying to get all the hardware connected, Drambo was acting screwy, and then crashed.

    You know what just works when you plug stuff into it? A Mac. And do you know what hardly ever crashes? Ableton. I LOVE Drambo, but it’s just not a reliable setup. :(

  • Get yourself a good controller, and use Drambo on Mac !

  • @jazzmess said:
    Get yourself a good controller, and use Drambo on Mac !

    That’s my next plan. I will miss all those amazing AUs though.

  • @mjm1138 said:

    @scrape said:
    I’ve been Bitwig curious for a few years but this guy loses his argument with himself. I couldn’t live with everything that’s still missing, especially Max 4 Live.

    Max, right. That's kind of the thing about Live for me. It seems like a lot of the more interesting stuff in that ecosystem is in the form of Max patches and you need to either get the full Suite, or pay for Standard + Max which is not that much cheaper than Suite. I understand it's still relatively affordable compared to what DAWs cost like 10 years ago, but I still don't feel like I have the skill or ambition to justify it. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but you need Max if you want to have a step sequencer in Live, right?

    I think I'm gonna see how happy I can get with Logic before I invest in anything else. Especially since I just bought a bunch of Arturia instruments, it feels like I've got months of playing to do before I've plumbed the depths of what I have, and seen what I can do with the AUv3's that are now available for Apple silicon Macs. I'd pay good money to have everything from @brambos on my Mac, especially Rozeta Suite, but I guess I'd better not hold my breath for that.

    You could still use the rozeta suite on the iPad and send the MIDI output to the Mac. I've had success with this. Then you have a touchscreen controller for interesting MIDI sequencing. You can still use Logic Remote as well.

  • @mistercharlie said:
    Burned again! I was getting into using Drambo with an analog synth, for sequencing and FX, but after spending half an hour trying to get all the hardware connected, Drambo was acting screwy, and then crashed.

    You know what just works when you plug stuff into it? A Mac. And do you know what hardly ever crashes? Ableton. I LOVE Drambo, but it’s just not a reliable setup. :(

    Drambo was extremely reliable up until the last few updates unfortunately.

    I have had my fair share of Ableton crashes too though, luckily it’s very quick to recover from them.

  • @BroCoast said:

    Drambo was extremely reliable up until the last few updates unfortunately.

    I have had my fair share of Ableton crashes too though, luckily it’s very quick to recover from them.

    Me too, but I have never lost data so far. 🫰

  • edited January 2023

    Being resilient against crashes is another cool Bitwig feature. Its audio engine is a separate program and you have various options to configure its usage. If one instance of the engine crashes, other instances or Bitwig itself is not affected. More instances consume more resources.

  • My new M2 Air arrived over the weekend, and holy shit! I'm afraid my iPad is going to wind up feeling neglected. The Cem Olcay and 4Pockets plugins I've tried so far seem to work fine in Logic, which is a big plus. Performance and battery life is nothing short of astounding. Honestly the performance just puts into sharper relief what a waste iPadOS is on my M1 iPad, that machine could be doing so much more.

  • @mistercharlie said:

    @jazzmess said:
    Get yourself a good controller, and use Drambo on Mac !

    I'm finding it hard to kick the Drambo habit, so I'm not going to. I realized how easy it is to use iPad Drambo to sequence Ableton, and to use Drambo's CC generators to control and p-lock the Ableton.

    One thing that's almost exactly the same on Ableton and Drambo is the super-fast, easy midi mapping. Between that, a pre-mapped default project, and racks in Drambo, it's solid. I have a rack for Koala FX (running as an AU in Ableton), and I'm working on one for Operator.

    It seems backwards, I know, but this combines the best of both for me.

    And If I use it with the iConnect MIDI 2, I can also send audio between them, or at least sample from one to the other.

  • Same here! After years of using the iPad with AUM as the main hub where all my hardware and iPad soundsorces come together, I bought Ableton and a Push 2. I had finally enough of recording in AUM and then editing in Logic.
    So far Ableton with the Push 2 is just amazing! But I miss some apps that I've used for years and that are somehow essential in my workflow. For example a simple sequencer like the Rozeta X0X and it's simple but so efficient mutations dial. A simple 4 on the floor kick come to life just with a bit of dial in of mutations. I've been searching for max4live sequencers the last days but I can't really find such a simple solution like with Rozeta.
    Anybody here that has a hint?

  • @BroCoast said:

    @mistercharlie said:
    Burned again! I was getting into using Drambo with an analog synth, for sequencing and FX, but after spending half an hour trying to get all the hardware connected, Drambo was acting screwy, and then crashed.

    You know what just works when you plug stuff into it? A Mac. And do you know what hardly ever crashes? Ableton. I LOVE Drambo, but it’s just not a reliable setup. :(

    Drambo was extremely reliable up until the last few updates unfortunately.

    I have had my fair share of Ableton crashes too though, luckily it’s very quick to recover from them.

    I absolutely love Ableton. But in my case, crashes and graphics issues are a major problem. Ableton support are working on a test machine for the graphics issues, as a few of us (Intel Mac users) have them now, and they're helping me work out the other crashes (one regular is Bleass SampleWiz 2).

    But still I love Ableton, and I'm persevering. I love and use my iPad too, but mostly just when mobile, or to create sounds to feed into my desktop setup (I also do the reverse of that).

    I tried BitWig Studio Trial, and just couldn't find that same love for it. I'm saving up for any Black Friday deals on upgrading from Ableton Live 11 Intro to Standard or Suite.

  • @Orne33e said:
    Same here! After years of using the iPad with AUM as the main hub where all my hardware and iPad soundsorces come together, I bought Ableton and a Push 2. I had finally enough of recording in AUM and then editing in Logic.
    So far Ableton with the Push 2 is just amazing! But I miss some apps that I've used for years and that are somehow essential in my workflow. For example a simple sequencer like the Rozeta X0X and it's simple but so efficient mutations dial. A simple 4 on the floor kick come to life just with a bit of dial in of mutations. I've been searching for max4live sequencers the last days but I can't really find such a simple solution like with Rozeta.
    Anybody here that has a hint?

    I hear you there! I would gladly and gratefully pay for Rozeta Suite on desktop. X0X and Rhythm are go-to drum sequencers for me.

  • edited April 2023

    Five years of total iOS production this April. 808 original, improvised, tracks. Finishing up a 68th album. All Cubasis plus Au3v , LUMBEATS and a rare interapp like Animoog or Thumbjam. I guess I drank the Cool Aid. Thx @LFS!

  • Glitchscaper has me back on iOS a fair bit more now. Finding it very nice running it in BM3, feeding egoist and Loopmix into it and then hosting BM3 in Cubasis to record straight to long audio tracks. Then it is off to desktop for chopping and mashing/mixing. Still makes for some fun sample fodder.

    @LinearLineman congrats and I hope you used an 808 on that last track!

  • @Orne33e said:
    Same here! After years of using the iPad with AUM as the main hub where all my hardware and iPad soundsorces come together, I bought Ableton and a Push 2. I had finally enough of recording in AUM and then editing in Logic.
    So far Ableton with the Push 2 is just amazing! But I miss some apps that I've used for years and that are somehow essential in my workflow. For example a simple sequencer like the Rozeta X0X and it's simple but so efficient mutations dial. A simple 4 on the floor kick come to life just with a bit of dial in of mutations. I've been searching for max4live sequencers the last days but I can't really find such a simple solution like with Rozeta.
    Anybody here that has a hint?

    Use sequencers like Rozeta over DIN Midi?

  • Anyone checked out the new Drift synth in Ableton? It’s awesome!

  • @Michael_R_Grant said:
    Anyone checked out the new Drift synth in Ableton? It’s awesome!

    yeah, its excellent! very very useful if you wanna get a tune going with minimal effort, very low CPU for what it does too.

  • @Michael_R_Grant said:
    Anyone checked out the new Drift synth in Ableton? It’s awesome!

    Not yet, but from the video that someone posted in another thread I definitely intend to.

  • I’ve been through a few changes since starting this thread. I love Ableton, but I find it’s better for me when I have something specific to do. If I don’t have a strong idea, I get lost. Whereas on hardware or the iPad I can just play, and interesting stuff emerges.

    I have found that a step sequencer is utterly essential for me. The Push’s sequencer isn’t immediate enough.

    First I went back to Drambo, because it’s just amazing, and has the best software sequencer anywhere in my opinion. But as soon as I start creating sounds I get bogged down. It’s cool for samples and drums, but I don’t click with it for melodies and harmony. Not sure why.

    I dusted off my Digitone and have been just taking it easy making cool loops and sounds. It’s possible to get some filthy, nasty analog-type sounds out of it too. Somehow I can lose myself for hours in a single machine, whereas on both the Mac and iPad my mind wanders pretty quickly while in the initial creation phase.

    These are just my preferences and observations. And I’m certainly aware of how spoiled we are to have such amazing choices in so many formats.

  • For my part, I've found that embracing the desktop, and specifically Logic Pro, has gotten me interested in GarageBand on iPad for the first time. Turns out that I find it to be a pretty useful sketchpad, once I got past the rather clunky (IMO) user interface. And the flow from GB project to Logic is pretty seamless.

    I've played in Ableton a bit (I have a 'lite' license) but I just can't seem to get excited about it. When I hear about something interesting in Live, it's usually a Max for Live deal, and the cost of Live Suite is just a bit much for me to swallow when Logic is such a good value for money (yes, I know, Apple can pretty much treat Logic as a loss-leader to sell hardware). The new "drift" synth does look pretty cool I admit.

    Anyway, point being, doing more on the desktop has actually given me reason to pick up my iPad more, somewhat ironically.

  • @mistercharlie said:
    I’ve been through a few changes since starting this thread. I love Ableton, but I find it’s better for me when I have something specific to do. If I don’t have a strong idea, I get lost. Whereas on hardware or the iPad I can just play, and interesting stuff emerges.

    I have found that a step sequencer is utterly essential for me. The Push’s sequencer isn’t immediate enough.

    First I went back to Drambo, because it’s just amazing, and has the best software sequencer anywhere in my opinion. But as soon as I start creating sounds I get bogged down. It’s cool for samples and drums, but I don’t click with it for melodies and harmony. Not sure why.

    I dusted off my Digitone and have been just taking it easy making cool loops and sounds. It’s possible to get some filthy, nasty analog-type sounds out of it too. Somehow I can lose myself for hours in a single machine, whereas on both the Mac and iPad my mind wanders pretty quickly while in the initial creation phase.

    These are just my preferences and observations. And I’m certainly aware of how spoiled we are to have such amazing choices in so many formats.

    I use iOS apps and hardware grooveboxes to generate stems and then I put it all as separate files on an Ableton template which I use to perform.

    Trying to build a similar template on Loopypro

  • Incredible thread! I love Bitwig and Ableton also but Logic Pro has really stepped it up in 10.5 in terms of DJ type tools. And they’re working on Logic 11.. I expect big things..Thanks to everyone who commented here.

  • @Michael_R_Grant said:
    Anyone checked out the new Drift synth in Ableton? It’s awesome!

    I'm itching to use it. Just preparing to install the new beta. I presume that's how I access it?

    How would you describe the sounds of Drift?

  • These days I mostly use my ipad as a synth- only stand alone versions. My Surface with Bitwig is better in just about every way. As are the plug ins. I use Wavestate and Modwave Native, Buchla Easel V, Softube modular, and the Bitwig synths- all of which smoke anything on the iPad- but that doesn't mean the iPad synths aren't excellent - just these are more excellent.

    I still like to mix tracks in AUM and make videos in Lumafusion, however.

  • @setAI said:
    These days I mostly use my ipad as a synth- only stand alone versions. My Surface with Bitwig is better in just about every way. As are the plug ins. I use Wavestate and Modwave Native, Buchla Easel V, Softube modular, and the Bitwig synths- all of which smoke anything on the iPad- but that doesn't mean the iPad synths aren't excellent - just these are more excellent.

    I still like to mix tracks in AUM and make videos in Lumafusion, however.

    Nice. I love Wavestate Native. I haven't tried Modwave Native yet. I have Buchla V too. I haven't tried Softube Modular yet. It looks intriguing, but costs have kept me back from it.

    I love using my iPad for touch surface apps like SpaceCraft, Samplr, Borderlands, and now also for SpaceFields, as I can't get anything like that on my Mac so far. I'm also loading GR-16 on it, for putting together bits and bobs to export to Ableton. I love that my new OP-Z can be friends with Ableton too.

    I'm saving up for the upgrade from Ableton Live 11 intro to Standard now, then I will save for Suite. It has so much power. I want to really dig into Max 4 Live too, having run the full trial. It ends this week.

    BitWig Studio just didn't click with me.

  • edited April 2023

    This is a very good topic. I’m also on a quest for getting the experience of creative iPad sequencers over to desktop land.

    The iPad sequencers are hard to beat. The immediacy of the touch UI is really the best. I‘m also using them as a Midi device driving synths in my DAW and then recording the sequence whin I‘m happy. Cykle, Senode, Rozetta, etc. Of course recording doesn’t help when you want the randomization of these sequencers.

    I‘m a Bitwig user and it’s exactly the modulation and generative features that convinced me of it. Very often I‘m using the note repeat device in euclidian mode, the step sequencer or the note grid for generating melodies, chords or even drum loops. Probability included. But the workflow resembles more a modular system than the before mentioned iPad apps. The arpeggiator device can easily be abused as a step sequencer and if you map pitch and probability of steps to an array of hardware knobs it’s quite a nice playground. For instance with a Launchcontrol XL.

    Bitwig has note probability and there are controller scripts for Midi controllers that model a step sequencer with probability options. This is the closest you can get to an iPad sequencer like experience. The best script for that is Ritchie Hawtin‘s script for the AKAI Fire but unfortunately it‘s partly broken since some weeks. In my opinion this approach even surpasses the iPad apps since you have real knobs. It really feels like using a real drum machine with probability options. TBH this is the best drum beat making experience I ever had. I‘m honestly considering fixing the script myself since it is on github. But see for yourself:

    Update: if I would just have more time, I would like to develop an iPad app that is a creative sequencer that interacts with Bitwig in a similar way that Ritchie‘s script does. It wouldn’t drive the synth directly but rather works with a Bitwig Midi clip. Basically being a sequencer that is a control surface for a Midi clip.

  • @andowrites said:

    How would you describe the sounds of Drift?

    Rad.

    It’s more about how easy it is to use. It feels to me like the Moog Grandmother, in that it has only two oscillators plus noise, but with very flexible options to screw with them.

    And the “drift” part really helps with the fat analog-ness

  • @BroCoast said:

    @Orne33e said:
    Same here! After years of using the iPad with AUM as the main hub where all my hardware and iPad soundsorces come together, I bought Ableton and a Push 2. I had finally enough of recording in AUM and then editing in Logic.
    So far Ableton with the Push 2 is just amazing! But I miss some apps that I've used for years and that are somehow essential in my workflow. For example a simple sequencer like the Rozeta X0X and it's simple but so efficient mutations dial. A simple 4 on the floor kick come to life just with a bit of dial in of mutations. I've been searching for max4live sequencers the last days but I can't really find such a simple solution like with Rozeta.
    Anybody here that has a hint?

    Use sequencers like Rozeta over DIN Midi?

    Yes! That‘s of course a possibility, but it would be so much easier to have a plug-in inside live that could do it and could be controlled by the Push.

  • @mjm1138 said:

    @Orne33e said:
    Same here! After years of using the iPad with AUM as the main hub where all my hardware and iPad soundsorces come together, I bought Ableton and a Push 2. I had finally enough of recording in AUM and then editing in Logic.
    So far Ableton with the Push 2 is just amazing! But I miss some apps that I've used for years and that are somehow essential in my workflow. For example a simple sequencer like the Rozeta X0X and it's simple but so efficient mutations dial. A simple 4 on the floor kick come to life just with a bit of dial in of mutations. I've been searching for max4live sequencers the last days but I can't really find such a simple solution like with Rozeta.
    Anybody here that has a hint?

    I hear you there! I would gladly and gratefully pay for Rozeta Suite on desktop. X0X and Rhythm are go-to drum sequencers for me.

    Yeah, I would directly pay for it!

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