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Has anyone read “The Creative Act: A Way of Being” by Rick Rubin?

sevenapesevenape
in Other

I think it’s really inspiring. Worth a read if you are in a creative rut, or not.

«1

Comments

  • GavinskiGavinski
    edited March 2023

    Watched a few vids and read a few articles that left me on the shelf, but if you're recommending it I might well give it a read Dan.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jan/10/the-creative-act-a-way-of-being-by-rick-rubin-review-thoughts-of-the-bearded-beat-master

    The 'contradictions' mentioned in this article are to me - and the writer later implies as much - not really contradictions. Sometimes imposing limits is what you need, sometimes you need to embrace no limits. It depends on what is needed at the time. That's why in Ancient China it really wasn't a case of, say, Confusionism over Doaism or vice versa. Instead, one famous aphorism recommended people to be a Confucian by day and a Daoist by night. As with everything, the secret lies in the ability to know when to apply the right tool or mindset at the right time.

    This is a concept very hard for some westerners to grasp after many years of indoctrination by religious absolutism. There's a very rigid notion of right and wrong. But to me there's often no absolute right or wrong - it depends on the time, the place, the motivation and the potential results. Not something that a doctrine like Christianity in most current formats can be bent to. But also something that can and has been abused by cult leaders etc.

    OK, ramble over!

  • rollinrollin

    It's in my listening list (the audiobook version, courtesy of my local library). Will post back when I've finished it.

  • SchmotownSchmotown

    If you’re curious, this podcast with RR will be worth your time: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ezra-klein-show/id1548604447?i=1000599009150

  • JeffChasteenJeffChasteen

    @Gavinski said:
    Watched a few vids and read a few articles that left me on the shelf, but if you're recommending it I might well give it a read Dan.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jan/10/the-creative-act-a-way-of-being-by-rick-rubin-review-thoughts-of-the-bearded-beat-master

    The 'contradictions' mentioned in this article are to me - and the writer later implies as much - not really contradictions. Sometimes imposing limits is what you need, sometimes you need to embrace no limits. It depends on what is needed at the time. That's why in Ancient China it really wasn't a case of, say, Confusionism over Doaism or vice versa. Instead, one famous aphorism recommended people to be a Confucian by day and a Daoist by night. As with everything, the secret lies in the ability to know when to apply the right tool or mindset at the right time.

    This is a concept very hard for some westerners to grasp after many years of indoctrination by religious absolutism. There's a very rigid notion of right and wrong. But to me there's often no absolute right or wrong - it depends on the time, the place, the motivation and the potential results. Not something that a doctrine like Christianity in most current formats can be bent to. But also something that can and has been abused by cult leaders etc.

    OK, ramble over!

    “ In winter I’m a Buddhist,
    And in summer I’m a nudist.”

    Joe Gould

  • sevenapesevenape

    @Gavinski said:
    Watched a few vids and read a few articles that left me on the shelf, but if you're recommending it I might well give it a read Dan.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jan/10/the-creative-act-a-way-of-being-by-rick-rubin-review-thoughts-of-the-bearded-beat-master

    The 'contradictions' mentioned in this article are to me - and the writer later implies as much - not really contradictions. Sometimes imposing limits is what you need, sometimes you need to embrace no limits. It depends on what is needed at the time. That's why in Ancient China it really wasn't a case of, say, Confusionism over Doaism or vice versa. Instead, one famous aphorism recommended people to be a Confucian by day and a Daoist by night. As with everything, the secret lies in the ability to know when to apply the right tool or mindset at the right time.

    This is a concept very hard for some westerners to grasp after many years of indoctrination by religious absolutism. There's a very rigid notion of right and wrong. But to me there's often no absolute right or wrong - it depends on the time, the place, the motivation and the potential results. Not something that a doctrine like Christianity in most current formats can be bent to. But also something that can and has been abused by cult leaders etc.

    OK, ramble over!

    I love that idea! It’s like in big trouble in little China!

    Of course the Chinese mix everything up.
    Look at what they have to work with, huh?

    There's Buddhism, Confucianism,
    and Taoist alchemy and sorcery.

    We take what we want and leave the rest.
    Just like your salad bar.

    @rollin said:
    It's in my listening list (the audiobook version, courtesy of my local library). Will post back when I've finished it.

    Please do!!

    @Schmotown said:
    If you’re curious, this podcast with RR will be worth your time: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ezra-klein-show/id1548604447?i=1000599009150

    Thank you I’ll deffo take a listen.

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @JeffChasteen said:

    @Gavinski said:
    Watched a few vids and read a few articles that left me on the shelf, but if you're recommending it I might well give it a read Dan.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jan/10/the-creative-act-a-way-of-being-by-rick-rubin-review-thoughts-of-the-bearded-beat-master

    The 'contradictions' mentioned in this article are to me - and the writer later implies as much - not really contradictions. Sometimes imposing limits is what you need, sometimes you need to embrace no limits. It depends on what is needed at the time. That's why in Ancient China it really wasn't a case of, say, Confusionism over Doaism or vice versa. Instead, one famous aphorism recommended people to be a Confucian by day and a Daoist by night. As with everything, the secret lies in the ability to know when to apply the right tool or mindset at the right time.

    This is a concept very hard for some westerners to grasp after many years of indoctrination by religious absolutism. There's a very rigid notion of right and wrong. But to me there's often no absolute right or wrong - it depends on the time, the place, the motivation and the potential results. Not something that a doctrine like Christianity in most current formats can be bent to. But also something that can and has been abused by cult leaders etc.

    OK, ramble over!

    “ In winter I’m a Buddhist,
    And in summer I’m a nudist.”

    Joe Gould

    Haha, I don't know this guy but he's on the right track, I think / hope.

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @sevenape said:

    @Gavinski said:
    Watched a few vids and read a few articles that left me on the shelf, but if you're recommending it I might well give it a read Dan.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jan/10/the-creative-act-a-way-of-being-by-rick-rubin-review-thoughts-of-the-bearded-beat-master

    The 'contradictions' mentioned in this article are to me - and the writer later implies as much - not really contradictions. Sometimes imposing limits is what you need, sometimes you need to embrace no limits. It depends on what is needed at the time. That's why in Ancient China it really wasn't a case of, say, Confusionism over Doaism or vice versa. Instead, one famous aphorism recommended people to be a Confucian by day and a Daoist by night. As with everything, the secret lies in the ability to know when to apply the right tool or mindset at the right time.

    This is a concept very hard for some westerners to grasp after many years of indoctrination by religious absolutism. There's a very rigid notion of right and wrong. But to me there's often no absolute right or wrong - it depends on the time, the place, the motivation and the potential results. Not something that a doctrine like Christianity in most current formats can be bent to. But also something that can and has been abused by cult leaders etc.

    OK, ramble over!

    I love that idea! It’s like in big trouble in little China!

    Of course the Chinese mix everything up.
    Look at what they have to work with, huh?

    There's Buddhism, Confucianism,
    and Taoist alchemy and sorcery.

    We take what we want and leave the rest.
    Just like your salad bar.

    @rollin said:
    It's in my listening list (the audiobook version, courtesy of my local library). Will post back when I've finished it.

    Please do!!

    @Schmotown said:
    If you’re curious, this podcast with RR will be worth your time: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ezra-klein-show/id1548604447?i=1000599009150

    Thank you I’ll deffo take a listen.

    I'm not sure it's exactly the same as modern salad bar new-age picking and choosing whatever suits you haha. That's mostly a recipe for disaster and is exactly why the hippies gravitated towards daoism despite the fact they could probably have done better with a bit of Confucianism in the mix! Sometimes to keep balance you have to jive with things that go against your instincts.

    See here:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trying-Not-Try-Science-Spontaneity/dp/0770437613

    Great book!

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @sevenape said:

    @Gavinski said:
    Watched a few vids and read a few articles that left me on the shelf, but if you're recommending it I might well give it a read Dan.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jan/10/the-creative-act-a-way-of-being-by-rick-rubin-review-thoughts-of-the-bearded-beat-master

    The 'contradictions' mentioned in this article are to me - and the writer later implies as much - not really contradictions. Sometimes imposing limits is what you need, sometimes you need to embrace no limits. It depends on what is needed at the time. That's why in Ancient China it really wasn't a case of, say, Confusionism over Doaism or vice versa. Instead, one famous aphorism recommended people to be a Confucian by day and a Daoist by night. As with everything, the secret lies in the ability to know when to apply the right tool or mindset at the right time.

    This is a concept very hard for some westerners to grasp after many years of indoctrination by religious absolutism. There's a very rigid notion of right and wrong. But to me there's often no absolute right or wrong - it depends on the time, the place, the motivation and the potential results. Not something that a doctrine like Christianity in most current formats can be bent to. But also something that can and has been abused by cult leaders etc.

    OK, ramble over!

    I love that idea! It’s like in big trouble in little China!

    Of course the Chinese mix everything up.
    Look at what they have to work with, huh?

    There's Buddhism, Confucianism,
    and Taoist alchemy and sorcery.

    We take what we want and leave the rest.
    Just like your salad bar.

    @rollin said:
    It's in my listening list (the audiobook version, courtesy of my local library). Will post back when I've finished it.

    Please do!!

    @Schmotown said:
    If you’re curious, this podcast with RR will be worth your time: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ezra-klein-show/id1548604447?i=1000599009150

    Thank you I’ll deffo take a listen.

    Listening to this now, about 20 mins in. Really great. The interviewer is not on the level of Rick in terms of self-awareness, but it's fascinating, and Rick Rubin comes across as a deep thinking and very grounded guy

  • SchmotownSchmotown

    Gav, if you mean Ezra Klein, he’s an excellent interviewer. I recommend checking out some of his other shows when you’ve finished this one.

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @Schmotown said:
    Gav, if you mean Ezra Klein, he’s an excellent interviewer. I recommend checking out some of his other shows when you’ve finished this one.

    Will do, cheers, and yes, I did mean him, but will check out his other stuff. Any particular recommendations?

  • SchmotownSchmotown

    Scroll through until one grabs you.

  • willetsjmwilletsjm

    I’m about halfway through. I’m reading a library copy, so I’m grabbing memorable quotes in notes. I’ve grabbed these so far:

    • You are the instrument (the instrument is you)
    • Distraction is a strategy in service of the work
    • Holding every rule as breakable is a healthy way to live for an artist.
    • Put the decision making into the work, not when to work

    Some of them sound like cards from Eno’s “Oblique Strategies.”

    Back to reading…

  • McDMcD
    edited March 2023

    I have 5 hours and 45 minutes to spare… I’ll have Rick Rubin read it to me (from Audible Books). I have credits to spare.

    UPDATE: Audible has reviews and a sample from the book… “It’s a series of fortune cookie statements”. Pass.
    I have a limited tolerance for spiritual mysticism about something I consider to be a mix of art and engineering.
    Art is inspired by lofty prose and engineering has limited patience for that as a productive use of time.

    I get my inspiration from the creatives here. They share my tools and show me new ways to the heavens. The input on the tools is great. I need to provide my own heaven and that’s what Rick is saying for 5 hours and 45 minutes. “Heaven is within you.” Ya-da, ya-da, ya-da.

  • rollinrollin

    I managed maybe about 20% of the book and stopped, it's not for me. That's the end of my review. Lol.

    Another book I listened to on creativity that I can heartily recommend is:

    Processing Creativity: The Tools, Practices and Habits Used to Make Music You're Happy With
    by Jesse Cannon

    All chapters are available for free on his 'Noise Creators' podcast (after episode 85.)

    It's a totally different approach to Rubin's book (practical vs esoteric).

  • Montreal_MusicMontreal_Music

    From a Goodreads review that is accurate:

  • NeuMNeuM

    @Gavinski said:
    Watched a few vids and read a few articles that left me on the shelf, but if you're recommending it I might well give it a read Dan.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jan/10/the-creative-act-a-way-of-being-by-rick-rubin-review-thoughts-of-the-bearded-beat-master

    The 'contradictions' mentioned in this article are to me - and the writer later implies as much - not really contradictions. Sometimes imposing limits is what you need, sometimes you need to embrace no limits. It depends on what is needed at the time. That's why in Ancient China it really wasn't a case of, say, Confusionism over Doaism or vice versa. Instead, one famous aphorism recommended people to be a Confucian by day and a Daoist by night. As with everything, the secret lies in the ability to know when to apply the right tool or mindset at the right time.

    This is a concept very hard for some westerners to grasp after many years of indoctrination by religious absolutism. There's a very rigid notion of right and wrong. But to me there's often no absolute right or wrong - it depends on the time, the place, the motivation and the potential results. Not something that a doctrine like Christianity in most current formats can be bent to. But also something that can and has been abused by cult leaders etc.

    OK, ramble over!

    Keep in mind, some governments also hold an absolutist view of ‘right and wrong’ (the Chinese government being one). And if you oppose them it can have serious life-changing consequences for a person. Just ask Jack Ma how he’s doing these days. 🤷‍♂️

  • rollinrollin

    (Based on as far as I got) I'd agree that's an accurate review.

    I was going to mention picking random passages for inspiration, but then figured I've got other books that serve that purpose better (for me YMMV), eg a collection of Rumi poems.

  • Montreal_MusicMontreal_Music
    edited March 2023

    I'm not sure creativity can be teach. It's part of who you are as a person. But you are you, not someone else. It's not like "how to be a great guitar player". Hint: Play guitar 10,000 hours.

    My best advice to be creative would be: learn new things each day, explore the world and take care of your body and soul.

    THE END

  • Stuntman_mikeStuntman_mike
    edited March 2023

    I feel like Rubin magic is more of an individual, in-person thing. I get a sense that he is really good at saying the right “fortune cookie” at the right time. It’s not necessarily book material unless there are stories attached to principles that add context. I obviously haven’t read this book, but I see value in some Rubin-isms 😂

  • willetsjmwilletsjm

    I finished the book last week. The reviews in this thread are accurate. It’s 300 pages of 2-4 page chapters on various creativity-related topics. If you’re looking to find stories on specific artists that Rubin worked with, you won’t find them. There’s a lot of “when I worked with an artist who was having a hard time with X, I did Y.”

    It was a pleasant read, and inspired me to find some time over the weekend to make some music. I jotted down a few quotes that resonated with me

    I returned the book to the library, but could see it being useful to have a copy lying around in my studio and flipping it open for quick inspiration.

  • Stuntman_mikeStuntman_mike

    @willetsjm said:
    I finished the book last week. The reviews in this thread are accurate. It’s 300 pages of 2-4 page chapters on various creativity-related topics. If you’re looking to find stories on specific artists that Rubin worked with, you won’t find them. There’s a lot of “when I worked with an artist who was having a hard time with X, I did Y.”

    It was a pleasant read, and inspired me to find some time over the weekend to make some music. I jotted down a few quotes that resonated with me

    I returned the book to the library, but could see it being useful to have a copy lying around in my studio and flipping it open for quick inspiration.

    Oh wow, makes sense

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @NeuM said:

    @Gavinski said:
    Watched a few vids and read a few articles that left me on the shelf, but if you're recommending it I might well give it a read Dan.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jan/10/the-creative-act-a-way-of-being-by-rick-rubin-review-thoughts-of-the-bearded-beat-master

    The 'contradictions' mentioned in this article are to me - and the writer later implies as much - not really contradictions. Sometimes imposing limits is what you need, sometimes you need to embrace no limits. It depends on what is needed at the time. That's why in Ancient China it really wasn't a case of, say, Confusionism over Doaism or vice versa. Instead, one famous aphorism recommended people to be a Confucian by day and a Daoist by night. As with everything, the secret lies in the ability to know when to apply the right tool or mindset at the right time.

    This is a concept very hard for some westerners to grasp after many years of indoctrination by religious absolutism. There's a very rigid notion of right and wrong. But to me there's often no absolute right or wrong - it depends on the time, the place, the motivation and the potential results. Not something that a doctrine like Christianity in most current formats can be bent to. But also something that can and has been abused by cult leaders etc.

    OK, ramble over!

    Keep in mind, some governments also hold an absolutist view of ‘right and wrong’ (the Chinese government being one). And if you oppose them it can have serious life-changing consequences for a person. Just ask Jack Ma how he’s doing these days. 🤷‍♂️

    Actually, they absolutely (pun intended) hold a much less absolutist view of right and wrong than the US does. This is why they respect the national sovereignty of other nation's far more than the US does. Taiwan issue aside (which the Chinese genuinely believe is theirs) how many countries has China invaded? Now let's compare the US and its idea that it is God's chosen tool to make the world right (in terms of its very absolutist ideas of good and evil) as echoed in the words of many presidents down the years. No comparison whatsoever. Would recommend reading the book American Rule' by Jared Sexton Yates for more on this.

    None of this is a defense of the Chinese system, which has many flaws, nor of the current leadership, who I despise (as do many Chinese people and civil servants at this point).

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @NeuM said:

    @Gavinski said:
    Watched a few vids and read a few articles that left me on the shelf, but if you're recommending it I might well give it a read Dan.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jan/10/the-creative-act-a-way-of-being-by-rick-rubin-review-thoughts-of-the-bearded-beat-master

    The 'contradictions' mentioned in this article are to me - and the writer later implies as much - not really contradictions. Sometimes imposing limits is what you need, sometimes you need to embrace no limits. It depends on what is needed at the time. That's why in Ancient China it really wasn't a case of, say, Confusionism over Doaism or vice versa. Instead, one famous aphorism recommended people to be a Confucian by day and a Daoist by night. As with everything, the secret lies in the ability to know when to apply the right tool or mindset at the right time.

    This is a concept very hard for some westerners to grasp after many years of indoctrination by religious absolutism. There's a very rigid notion of right and wrong. But to me there's often no absolute right or wrong - it depends on the time, the place, the motivation and the potential results. Not something that a doctrine like Christianity in most current formats can be bent to. But also something that can and has been abused by cult leaders etc.

    OK, ramble over!

    Keep in mind, some governments also hold an absolutist view of ‘right and wrong’ (the Chinese government being one). And if you oppose them it can have serious life-changing consequences for a person. Just ask Jack Ma how he’s doing these days. 🤷‍♂️

    About this, in more detail, by the way, this is nothing to do with absolutism but more a general lack of respect for individual rights compared to the wellbeing of the group. But its also about the govt's fear of being seen to be challenged. Definitely its complicated, and there is a lot of corruption, despotism etc in the Chinese govt

  • GavinskiGavinski

    Back to the topic, though, this book is fantastic and will be far more useful for most people, from what I gather, than Rick Rubin's more whimsical ramblings.

    https://www.ableton.com/en/shop/?pk_vid=386e38d4b51abc281678856690dd21cd#making-music

    Digital versions are free to download! Extremely practical and very well written (writer is Head of Documentation at Ableton).

  • KrupaKrupa

    I was reading this with a slight cynical curl of the lip for the first third, but then it opens up a bit and starts to get a bit less floaty. It’s no creative strategies do this do that type thing, but it’s definitely helping me get over a few mental blockages I’ve developed recently…

  • knewspeakknewspeak

    Sounds like faddish hip and trendy nonsense that passes for eastern teachings these days, remember for most, eastern philosophy is a lifelong pursuit, often with a guide, a learned elder usually, in western culture as a comparison it would be a psychiatrist as a guide. But if it works go for it, ultimately the power is already within you, it just needs unlocking.

  • SimonSimon
    edited March 2023

    @sevenape said:
    Of course the Chinese mix everything up.
    Look at what they have to work with, huh?

    There's Buddhism, Confucianism,
    and Taoist alchemy and sorcery.

    And look what they ended up with: Communisim.

    I'd be asking for a 2nd roll of the dice... :smiley:

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @knewspeak said:
    Sounds like faddish hip and trendy nonsense that passes for eastern teachings these days, remember for most, eastern philosophy is a lifelong pursuit, often with a guide, a learned elder usually, in western culture as a comparison it would be a psychiatrist as a guide. But if it works go for it, ultimately the power is already within you, it just needs unlocking.

    Yeah lol. I have an anecdote about this. I once knew a young American guy studying a master's degree in Daoism here in China. Lovely guy btw. However....

    Once we were at a concert - a superb solo performance by a guy called Douglas Li, totally improvised and involving an array of western and world instruments. At the end he asked if anyone would like to come up and jam with him. Now I can play guitar but I'm not a great improviser and there was no way I was going to embarrass myself by going up there after such an incredible show.

    My daoist student friend had no such compunctions, asked if he could borrow the bar's guitar, and got on the stage.

    What ensued was one of the simultaneously tragic and hilarious performances I've ever seen. I guess he thought he'd channel some Qi or something but it was not enough to make up for the fact that he couldn't play the guitar for shit. 😂

  • knewspeakknewspeak

    @Gavinski said:

    @knewspeak said:
    Sounds like faddish hip and trendy nonsense that passes for eastern teachings these days, remember for most, eastern philosophy is a lifelong pursuit, often with a guide, a learned elder usually, in western culture as a comparison it would be a psychiatrist as a guide. But if it works go for it, ultimately the power is already within you, it just needs unlocking.

    Yeah lol. I have an anecdote about this. I once knew a young American guy studying a master's degree in Daoism here in China. Lovely guy btw. However....

    Once we were at a concert - a superb solo performance by a guy called Douglas Li, totally improvised and involving an array of western and world instruments. At the end he asked if anyone would like to come up and jam with him. Now I can play guitar but I'm not a great improviser and there was no way I was going to embarrass myself by going up there after such an incredible show.

    My daoist student friend had no such compunctions, asked if he could borrow the bar's guitar, and got on the stage.

    What ensued was one of the simultaneously tragic and hilarious performances I've ever seen. I guess he thought he'd channel some Qi or something but it was not enough to make up for the fact that he couldn't play the guitar for shit. 😂

    Lol, yes everyone is unique, so thinking that power is the same for everyone is foolish, but often a tragedy and comedy. We all live and hopefully learn.

  • SimonSimon

    @Gavinski said:
    Back to the topic, though, this book is fantastic and will be far more useful for most people, from what I gather, than Rick Rubin's more whimsical ramblings.

    https://www.ableton.com/en/shop/?pk_vid=386e38d4b51abc281678856690dd21cd#making-music

    Digital versions are free to download! Extremely practical and very well written (writer is Head of Documentation at Ableton).

    Very interesting. Thanks for the link!

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