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The darker side of making music

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Comments

  • michael_mmichael_m
    edited April 2023

    @recycle said:

    @michael_m said:
    I can’t imagine sitting down at a campfire with a bunch of musicians already playing and instantly be able to play along if you have a laptop.

    This is exactly how I play laptop with the band!

    You sit round a campfire and start improvising with no preparation?

  • ecouecou

    @michael_m said:

    @recycle said:

    @michael_m said:
    I can’t imagine sitting down at a campfire with a bunch of musicians already playing and instantly be able to play along if you have a laptop.

    This is exactly how I play laptop with the band!

    You sit round a campfire and start improvising with no preparation?

    With a keyboard controller I would guess ?

  • recyclerecycle
    edited April 2023

    @ecou said:

    @michael_m said:

    @recycle said:

    @michael_m said:
    I can’t imagine sitting down at a campfire with a bunch of musicians already playing and instantly be able to play along if you have a laptop.

    This is exactly how I play laptop with the band!

    You sit round a campfire and start improvising with no preparation?

    With a keyboard controller I would guess ?

    Well, yes with my launchpad: we have lot of fun jamming. I can play a drum set, an Hammond organ, sampled choirs, a vocoder or whatever fits well in the vibe. I repeat: the magic is in the performers, not in the instruments.
    On the other hand, a bad laptop player can be annoying as much as a bad guitar player, no difference

  • supadomsupadom
    edited April 2023

    @recycle said:

    @ecou said:

    @michael_m said:

    @recycle said:

    @michael_m said:
    I can’t imagine sitting down at a campfire with a bunch of musicians already playing and instantly be able to play along if you have a laptop.

    This is exactly how I play laptop with the band!

    You sit round a campfire and start improvising with no preparation?

    With a keyboard controller I would guess ?

    On the other hand, a bad laptop player can be annoying as much as a bad guitar player, no difference

    I would argue with that. It is much harder to fit in with acoustic instruments especially if using anything sequenced or arpeggiated.

    It’s super easy to change tempo, dynamics, key etc. on a guitar or a drum, not so using electronic stuff unless you’re playing a single instrument or everyone else consciously follows your rhythm. Unless you have decent quality amplification it is not easy to achieve. I’m talking around the fire/outdoors. In more controlled environment yes but still, all the above applies.

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @supadom said:

    @recycle said:

    @ecou said:

    @michael_m said:

    @recycle said:

    @michael_m said:
    I can’t imagine sitting down at a campfire with a bunch of musicians already playing and instantly be able to play along if you have a laptop.

    This is exactly how I play laptop with the band!

    You sit round a campfire and start improvising with no preparation?

    With a keyboard controller I would guess ?

    On the other hand, a bad laptop player can be annoying as much as a bad guitar player, no difference

    I would argue with that. It is much harder to fit in with acoustic instruments especially if using anything sequenced or arpeggiated.

    It’s super easy to change tempo, dynamics, key etc. on a guitar or a drum, not so using electronic stuff unless you’re playing a single instrument or everyone else consciously follows your rhythm. Unless you have decent quality amplification it is not easy to achieve. I’m talking around the fire/outdoors. In more controlled environment yes but still, all the above applies.

    There’s also the potential that people aren’t tuned to concert pitch, or using microtonal tunings. Bending strings, adjusting embouchure, adjusting to difficult playing conditions in general - I think the situation lends itself to acoustic instruments much more than anything electronic and/or amplified.

  • recyclerecycle

    @michael_m said:

    @supadom said:

    @recycle said:

    @ecou said:

    @michael_m said:

    @recycle said:

    @michael_m said:
    I can’t imagine sitting down at a campfire with a bunch of musicians already playing and instantly be able to play along if you have a laptop.

    This is exactly how I play laptop with the band!

    You sit round a campfire and start improvising with no preparation?

    With a keyboard controller I would guess ?

    On the other hand, a bad laptop player can be annoying as much as a bad guitar player, no difference

    I would argue with that. It is much harder to fit in with acoustic instruments especially if using anything sequenced or arpeggiated.

    It’s super easy to change tempo, dynamics, key etc. on a guitar or a drum, not so using electronic stuff unless you’re playing a single instrument or everyone else consciously follows your rhythm. Unless you have decent quality amplification it is not easy to achieve. I’m talking around the fire/outdoors. In more controlled environment yes but still, all the above applies.

    There’s also the potential that people aren’t tuned to concert pitch, or using microtonal tunings. Bending strings, adjusting embouchure, adjusting to difficult playing conditions in general - I think the situation lends itself to acoustic instruments much more than anything electronic and/or amplified.

    You seem to have some prejudices about using the computer in live mode. I've heard your point of view before, several times. It was in the 90s and many live bands used a DJ to add vibe to their sound, basically scratch, stabs, add loops onto the beat etc. At that time, this new form of musician was not seen very well by retrograde minds.
    Again, in the 80s the electronic drums came out overwhelmingly, but it was quite discriminated as an instrument (especially by acoustic drummers), guilty of stealing the work of musicians. Today it can make you smile to hear these stories, but at the time they were taken damn seriously.
    What I want to get is that in life, as in music, everything is constantly changing and stiffening in front of changes is completely useless, much more constructive to try to take advantage of new opportunities

  • The Krazy WabbitThe Krazy Wabbit

    The darker side of making music is generally found in the comment section.

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @recycle said:

    @michael_m said:

    @supadom said:

    @recycle said:

    @ecou said:

    @michael_m said:

    @recycle said:

    @michael_m said:
    I can’t imagine sitting down at a campfire with a bunch of musicians already playing and instantly be able to play along if you have a laptop.

    This is exactly how I play laptop with the band!

    You sit round a campfire and start improvising with no preparation?

    With a keyboard controller I would guess ?

    On the other hand, a bad laptop player can be annoying as much as a bad guitar player, no difference

    I would argue with that. It is much harder to fit in with acoustic instruments especially if using anything sequenced or arpeggiated.

    It’s super easy to change tempo, dynamics, key etc. on a guitar or a drum, not so using electronic stuff unless you’re playing a single instrument or everyone else consciously follows your rhythm. Unless you have decent quality amplification it is not easy to achieve. I’m talking around the fire/outdoors. In more controlled environment yes but still, all the above applies.

    There’s also the potential that people aren’t tuned to concert pitch, or using microtonal tunings. Bending strings, adjusting embouchure, adjusting to difficult playing conditions in general - I think the situation lends itself to acoustic instruments much more than anything electronic and/or amplified.

    You seem to have some prejudices about using the computer in live mode. I've heard your point of view before, several times. It was in the 90s and many live bands used a DJ to add vibe to their sound, basically scratch, stabs, add loops onto the beat etc. At that time, this new form of musician was not seen very well by retrograde minds.
    Again, in the 80s the electronic drums came out overwhelmingly, but it was quite discriminated as an instrument (especially by acoustic drummers), guilty of stealing the work of musicians. Today it can make you smile to hear these stories, but at the time they were taken damn seriously.
    What I want to get is that in life, as in music, everything is constantly changing and stiffening in front of changes is completely useless, much more constructive to try to take advantage of new opportunities

    Not at all. Just pragmatism.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    I have been using computers almost exclusively to make music since the 80s. Lots of copy/paste/loops/fx/sequencing and now I even tap pads and twist actual nobs. I would never call myself a musician.

  • Danny_MammyDanny_Mammy

    I'm not knocking the guy really, but he is just in it for the clicks.

  • recyclerecycle

    @michael_m said:

    @recycle said:

    @michael_m said:

    @supadom said:

    @recycle said:

    @ecou said:

    @michael_m said:

    @recycle said:

    @michael_m said:
    I can’t imagine sitting down at a campfire with a bunch of musicians already playing and instantly be able to play along if you have a laptop.

    This is exactly how I play laptop with the band!

    You sit round a campfire and start improvising with no preparation?

    With a keyboard controller I would guess ?

    On the other hand, a bad laptop player can be annoying as much as a bad guitar player, no difference

    I would argue with that. It is much harder to fit in with acoustic instruments especially if using anything sequenced or arpeggiated.

    It’s super easy to change tempo, dynamics, key etc. on a guitar or a drum, not so using electronic stuff unless you’re playing a single instrument or everyone else consciously follows your rhythm. Unless you have decent quality amplification it is not easy to achieve. I’m talking around the fire/outdoors. In more controlled environment yes but still, all the above applies.

    There’s also the potential that people aren’t tuned to concert pitch, or using microtonal tunings. Bending strings, adjusting embouchure, adjusting to difficult playing conditions in general - I think the situation lends itself to acoustic instruments much more than anything electronic and/or amplified.

    You seem to have some prejudices about using the computer in live mode. I've heard your point of view before, several times. It was in the 90s and many live bands used a DJ to add vibe to their sound, basically scratch, stabs, add loops onto the beat etc. At that time, this new form of musician was not seen very well by retrograde minds.
    Again, in the 80s the electronic drums came out overwhelmingly, but it was quite discriminated as an instrument (especially by acoustic drummers), guilty of stealing the work of musicians. Today it can make you smile to hear these stories, but at the time they were taken damn seriously.
    What I want to get is that in life, as in music, everything is constantly changing and stiffening in front of changes is completely useless, much more constructive to try to take advantage of new opportunities

    Not at all. Just pragmatism.

    please elaborate, I'm interested

  • supadomsupadom

    @The Krazy Wabbit said:
    The darker side of making music is generally found in the comment section.

    So true!

  • SimonSimon

    @recycle said:
    What I want to get is that in life, as in music, everything is constantly changing and stiffening in front of changes is completely useless

    Nup.

    If you don't like the change, oppose it.

    Blindly accepting change just because it is "the new thing" is stupid.

  • supadomsupadom

    @recycle said:

    @michael_m said:

    @recycle said:

    @michael_m said:

    @supadom said:

    @recycle said:

    @ecou said:

    @michael_m said:

    @recycle said:

    @michael_m said:
    I can’t imagine sitting down at a campfire with a bunch of musicians already playing and instantly be able to play along if you have a laptop.

    This is exactly how I play laptop with the band!

    You sit round a campfire and start improvising with no preparation?

    With a keyboard controller I would guess ?

    On the other hand, a bad laptop player can be annoying as much as a bad guitar player, no difference

    I would argue with that. It is much harder to fit in with acoustic instruments especially if using anything sequenced or arpeggiated.

    It’s super easy to change tempo, dynamics, key etc. on a guitar or a drum, not so using electronic stuff unless you’re playing a single instrument or everyone else consciously follows your rhythm. Unless you have decent quality amplification it is not easy to achieve. I’m talking around the fire/outdoors. In more controlled environment yes but still, all the above applies.

    There’s also the potential that people aren’t tuned to concert pitch, or using microtonal tunings. Bending strings, adjusting embouchure, adjusting to difficult playing conditions in general - I think the situation lends itself to acoustic instruments much more than anything electronic and/or amplified.

    You seem to have some prejudices about using the computer in live mode. I've heard your point of view before, several times. It was in the 90s and many live bands used a DJ to add vibe to their sound, basically scratch, stabs, add loops onto the beat etc. At that time, this new form of musician was not seen very well by retrograde minds.
    Again, in the 80s the electronic drums came out overwhelmingly, but it was quite discriminated as an instrument (especially by acoustic drummers), guilty of stealing the work of musicians. Today it can make you smile to hear these stories, but at the time they were taken damn seriously.
    What I want to get is that in life, as in music, everything is constantly changing and stiffening in front of changes is completely useless, much more constructive to try to take advantage of new opportunities

    Not at all. Just pragmatism.

    please elaborate, I'm interested

    It’s been elaborated yet you still see only some imaginary prejudice. There’s no prejudice, all the reasons that have been mentioned are real, they’re not excuses.

    I’ve been trying to blend acoustic and electronic music for years now. It can be done but it’s tricky.

    Yes, I know what you mean though, when someone shows up with a laptop at a local jam many people have a wtf reaction. I think iPads have even more hard time despite the touch screen being super intuitive to use. I’ve done that too. I still find it much easier to pick up a guitar, bass or sit behind a drum kit. Less stress and more fun.

    Another aspect is the eye contact and visual communication. Electronic musicians often get lost in menus or knob twiddling. You get that less when jamming with other instruments.

    If you find it easy to blend those two worlds, power to you, genuinely. It’s certainly not easy, and for valid reasons.

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @supadom said:

    @recycle said:

    @michael_m said:

    @recycle said:

    @michael_m said:

    @supadom said:

    @recycle said:

    @ecou said:

    @michael_m said:

    @recycle said:

    @michael_m said:
    I can’t imagine sitting down at a campfire with a bunch of musicians already playing and instantly be able to play along if you have a laptop.

    This is exactly how I play laptop with the band!

    You sit round a campfire and start improvising with no preparation?

    With a keyboard controller I would guess ?

    On the other hand, a bad laptop player can be annoying as much as a bad guitar player, no difference

    I would argue with that. It is much harder to fit in with acoustic instruments especially if using anything sequenced or arpeggiated.

    It’s super easy to change tempo, dynamics, key etc. on a guitar or a drum, not so using electronic stuff unless you’re playing a single instrument or everyone else consciously follows your rhythm. Unless you have decent quality amplification it is not easy to achieve. I’m talking around the fire/outdoors. In more controlled environment yes but still, all the above applies.

    There’s also the potential that people aren’t tuned to concert pitch, or using microtonal tunings. Bending strings, adjusting embouchure, adjusting to difficult playing conditions in general - I think the situation lends itself to acoustic instruments much more than anything electronic and/or amplified.

    You seem to have some prejudices about using the computer in live mode. I've heard your point of view before, several times. It was in the 90s and many live bands used a DJ to add vibe to their sound, basically scratch, stabs, add loops onto the beat etc. At that time, this new form of musician was not seen very well by retrograde minds.
    Again, in the 80s the electronic drums came out overwhelmingly, but it was quite discriminated as an instrument (especially by acoustic drummers), guilty of stealing the work of musicians. Today it can make you smile to hear these stories, but at the time they were taken damn seriously.
    What I want to get is that in life, as in music, everything is constantly changing and stiffening in front of changes is completely useless, much more constructive to try to take advantage of new opportunities

    Not at all. Just pragmatism.

    please elaborate, I'm interested

    It’s been elaborated yet you still see only some imaginary prejudice. There’s no prejudice, all the reasons that have been mentioned are real, they’re not excuses.

    I’ve been trying to blend acoustic and electronic music for years now. It can be done but it’s tricky.

    Yes, I know what you mean though, when someone shows up with a laptop at a local jam many people have a wtf reaction. I think iPads have even more hard time despite the touch screen being super intuitive to use. I’ve done that too. I still find it much easier to pick up a guitar, bass or sit behind a drum kit. Less stress and more fun.

    Another aspect is the eye contact and visual communication. Electronic musicians often get lost in menus or knob twiddling. You get that less when jamming with other instruments.

    If you find it easy to blend those two worlds, power to you, genuinely. It’s certainly not easy, and for valid reasons.

    Not much I can add to this.

    I definitely don’t have any prejudice as I make music with a laptop and have sat around a fire with a guitar or mandolin.

    As for which is more practical - well there’s a reason you don’t see many people sat around a camper with laptops compared to guitars.

  • recyclerecycle

    Gentleman: We choose to be artists, not because it is easy, but because it is hard

    I’d like to publish this video from Beardyman: an amazing musician/showman: his show is basically a mic and various iPads, he’s a virtuoso of voice and electronics.

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @recycle said:
    Gentleman: We choose to be artists, not because it is easy, but because it is hard

    I’d like to publish this video from Beardyman: an amazing musician/showman: his show is basically a mic and various iPads, he’s a virtuoso of voice and electronics.

    I have huge respect for an artist like this, as it’s beyond my skills to do something like this as well as he does.

    Can’t imagine he would find it easy to sit in on a campfire singalong as well as a folk guitarist though.

  • abfabf

    @recycle said:
    Well, yes with my launchpad: we have lot of fun jamming. I can play a drum set, an Hammond organ, sampled choirs, a vocoder or whatever fits well in the vibe. I repeat: the magic is in the performers, not in the instruments.
    On the other hand, a bad laptop player can be annoying as much as a bad guitar player, no difference

    How are you heard? You have a laptop, a launchpad, and some kind of amplification?
    Or is everybody listening to your laptop speakers?

    I have just now made a promise to myself that I will never use the phrase "laptop player".

  • SimonSimon
    edited April 2023

    @abf said:
    I have just now made a promise to myself that I will never use the phrase "laptop player".

    LOL.

    You only get that by paying extra, also known as the "in lap purchase".

  • supadomsupadom

    @recycle said:
    Gentleman: We choose to be artists, not because it is easy, but because it is hard

    I’d like to publish this video from Beardyman: an amazing musician/showman: his show is basically a mic and various iPads, he’s a virtuoso of voice and electronics.

    We choose to be artists to express stuff, hard easy or hard is irrelevant. If art is always hard you’re verging towards martyrdom.

    I feel beardyman very skilful technically but rather tiring and unidimensional. Perhaps that’s what suits him bests.

    Here’s some of my stuff to show you that I’m not talking out of my ass but actually am hugely invested in the subject. I’m by no means comparing myself to beardyman BTW.

  • recyclerecycle

    @supadom said:

    @recycle said:
    Gentleman: We choose to be artists, not because it is easy, but because it is hard

    I’d like to publish this video from Beardyman: an amazing musician/showman: his show is basically a mic and various iPads, he’s a virtuoso of voice and electronics.

    We choose to be artists to express stuff, hard easy or hard is irrelevant. If art is always hard you’re verging towards martyrdom.

    I feel beardyman very skilful technically but rather tiring and unidimensional. Perhaps that’s what suits him bests.

    Here’s some of my stuff to show you that I’m not talking out of my ass but actually am hugely invested in the subject. I’m by no means comparing myself to beardyman BTW.

    Congratulations: you have talent. Yours is a further demonstration that new technologies can absolutely be used for liveshows (as well as for beardyman). In those videos there’s the living proof that the creative use of computers has not at all normalized downward the artistic production (that is the usual clichés), but actually improved it.
    Going back to the OP: why do artists suffer? Because we are more sensitive and will continue to suffer for the rest of our lives, there is no escape.
    Being aware of this is already taking a step forward

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