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Venus Theory on “Why make music when nobody cares ?”

edited May 2023 in Other

Another really great video from Cameron. Worth to watch and think about …

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Comments

  • I think way too many creators are just too shallow to come across these questions... little self awareness paired with over the top ambitions...
    My belief is if half of the ‘art’ would disappear from one day to another it would make very little impact... what does that say about the intended or expected impact from the creator?

  • I dont make music for others, its just for me, its just a hobby for the winter months that keeps me entertained. I make SFX for movie/film/documentary of real weapons, real explosions etc. No marketing involved as its such a niche market, everybody knows everyone else.

  • Cos it’s art and a form of expression. I have emotions I need to express and get out and don’t really care if anyone hears them or not

  • I express my emotional state into music , it is for me , it is a therapeutic hobby , I have enough good tracks (over 100) to do many EP’on Soundcloud I I dowloaded only 2 on my free Soundcloud space , ot many people heard it but it isn’t Important to me.

    So my response is : I need to do music for me not to be heard.

  • edited May 2023

    “I write the music I like. If other people like it, fine, they can go buy the albums. And if they don’t like it, there’s always Michael Jackson for them to listen to.” – Frank Zappa

    I don't do something because I think it will sell 30 million albums. I couldn't care less. If it sells one, it sells one.

    Oscar Peterson

    I make music because I enjoy it and let me express myself in ways I didn't realize that I could in the past, I don't care about others listening or caring about it

  • I play music because it helps me get in a flow state and be one with the universe. When I was much younger, athletics and sex were my route in. Now it’s music and meditation.

  • I'm always confused when people who make music at home talk as though we're all in this to get something out of it, other than just the joy of making music, which itself is the huge reward.

    I read it in comments like, "99% of the listening audience can't tell if you used a vst or an analog synth", and I know most likely the poster's "listening audience" is a few of their friends. But the idea of being judged by an imaginary audience permeates so many music forums. I'm happy I'm not afflicted with the need to be approved of in that way.

    The modern "are you a pro" focused attitude sucks the life and joy out of making music. It kills the sense of adventure, causes musicians anxiety and creative blocks, and that in turn sells gear, sells plugins, and creates "influencers".

    Making music is for beauty, for fun, for expression, for exploration, for collaboration, and then for sharing with others if you feel like it.

  • edited May 2023

    Music is art, just like a painting, sculpture or dance.
    Some sell their art for others to enjoy, some enjoy their own art for themselves.
    I’m open to both possibilities.
    I have made money from my art, but also enjoy my own creations.
    It’s introspective to think about where I was and what I was doing at the time of whatever I made.
    I’m very much a conceptual thinker, I love figuring stuff out and often the principle/framework/mindset that solves a musical or design challenge, helps me at work in the hospital or at my church or vice versa 🙏🏻 music is part of my development as a human being.

  • edited May 2023

    .

  • edited May 2023

    I think it is not straightforward.

    Clearly my stuff is the very opposite of commercial, and I’m way too old ugly and weird to want to be a pop star. I would also continue to make my noises even if I were the only one ever to hear them. But I’d also be lying if I denied the importance of being heard. Indeed, it was the very existence of the Creations section of this forum that persuaded me to return to making my noises after almost half a century away from it all.

    That space, my SoundCloud, and even the few tracks I have on BandCamp and Spotify offer me, if not a validation, then at least a context and frame for what I try to do. The possibility of some kind of audience, however small, pushes me to try to be better, to make each track a little more focused/exciting/worthwhile than the last.

    I know I have the self discipline to work, as I live, alone, and to keep buggering on, in life and , ahem ‘art’ , until I drop off the twig or lose my marbles. But still: it is nice to know you have been heard.

    I subscribe very much to Terror Management Theory on this: these little acts of creation are indeed the ‘fragments shored against our ruin’, as Eliot memorably put it. Terror Management Theory suggests that all acts of creation (and indeed procreation) are exactly that. Slender hopes, however faint, that in the absence of faith, something of ‘me’ might somehow nevertheless actually survive my inevitable bodily death, that some slim fragment of my particular mind will still be out there acting in the world, when the brain that gave it form is ashes, or food for worms.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror_management_theory

    It’s why, I think, I find the ancient legend of Beowulf so inexplicably, personally, moving, literally to the point of tears. One of our oldest legends. The story not of a bronzed archetypal demigod-hero so familiar from the Greek pantheon, but of a Nordic, terribly flawed, fundamentally human man, a braggart, a liar, a reluctant, deceitful and envious chancer become king who nevertheless at the last rises to greatness, and to the great and terrible fate that has always been his Wyrd; who goes as he must to meet his long ordained and inevitable death, a death whose shape he had made for himself a lifetime before. He goes to his final battle old, failing, with only one hope upon his lips. That the world remember his name.

    And we do.

    The bards who sang his tale are dust. But his song?: That still lives on.

    Bowie is the acme of that urge. Literally performing his own deathbed scene, (albeit that whilst he was making the video for Lazarus, he apparently knew he had cancer, but not that it was terminal). And once he did know: Authorising the video, the album Black Star, and then an anonymous disposal of his remains. He knew it would be the work that survived, not the worker.

  • edited May 2023

    When I played in bands, and relied on music to pay the bills, audience appreciation was definitely a consideration - after all they’d paid to be entertained, and we wouldn’t get booked again if we failed to do that.

    Now it’s a hobby/means of personal expression/fun, I do it solely for my own amusement. In fact in makes me a bit nervous when someone buys a track, or pays me a compliment!

    I couldn’t, not do this stuff if I tried.

  • HUMOR ON

    I only appreciate the music of people that I’d like to gave sex with. I’m pretty much a typical consumer. It’s always about the opportunity for imagined sex.

    Imagining real people that would want to have sex with me helps me set my expectations for success appropriately. I have an audience measured on both hands if I had world wide distribution.

    No this imagined sex… I’m not getting my hopes up.

    But it’s a nice hobby. I makes the music and let the sex take care of itself. Frank Zappa was warning people long before we knew. Oscar Peterson was a dog. (Too much?).

    HUMOR OFF

    We just want to be loved and respected as our true selves. No harm in hoping for that much from our efforts. That’s one of the primary benefits of this forum. You can get feedback from your peers and learn that your shit does NOT stink (too bad).

  • edited May 2023

    @McD said:
    HUMOR ON

    I only appreciate the music of people that I’d like to gave sex with. I’m pretty much a typical consumer. It’s always about the opportunity for imagined sex.

    Imagining real people that would want to have sex with me helps me set my expectations for success appropriately. I have an audience measured on both hands if I had world wide distribution.

    No this imagined sex… I’m not getting my hopes up.

    But it’s a nice hobby. I makes the music and let the sex take care of itself. Frank Zappa was warning people long before we knew. Oscar Peterson was a dog. (Too much?).

    HUMOR OFF

    We just want to be loved and respected as our true selves. No harm in hoping for that much from our efforts. That’s one of the primary benefits of this forum. You can get feedback from your peers and learn that your shit does NOT stink (too bad).

    I take it you're not a big Elvis fan? Zing! :)

  • @Svetlovska
    Beautiful post.

  • @NeuM said:

    @McD said:
    HUMOR ON

    I only appreciate the music of people that I’d like to gave sex with. I’m pretty much a typical consumer. It’s always about the opportunity for imagined sex.

    Imagining real people that would want to have sex with me helps me set my expectations for success appropriately. I have an audience measured on both hands if I had world wide distribution.

    No this imagined sex… I’m not getting my hopes up.

    But it’s a nice hobby. I makes the music and let the sex take care of itself. Frank Zappa was warning people long before we knew. Oscar Peterson was a dog. (Too much?).

    HUMOR OFF

    We just want to be loved and respected as our true selves. No harm in hoping for that much from our efforts. That’s one of the primary benefits of this forum. You can get feedback from your peers and learn that your shit does NOT stink (too bad).

    I take it you're not a big Elvis fan? Zing! :)

    I’d tap that. I could sell the story to the tabloids and make a little scratch.

  • It's so great to see your answers my friends.

    Before May 6th, I made music for myself in hopes of getting a little praise. It's why I loved getting comments. Money was secondary, and only the cherry on the sundae.

    From May 6th onwards, I make music to honour God. I got back into my Faith (not religion but personal belief). It's still an inner desire to express myself through my music, but the motivation is different. Making joyful noises and all that.

    I don't want fame or fortune from music. Just a comfortable enough living. My main source of income musicwise is from playing piano live. I also plan to teach beginner piano as well. But creating music is my passion, and honestly I don't want to make it big lest my musical output is controlled by others (such as a record label).

  • edited May 2023

    i make music just because i doesn't have anything better to do in my free time and watching netflix or playing games looks like wasted time to me :-))) I put "finished" songs online mainly to mark for myself line "it's finished" to move to another song, otherwise i tweak it indefinitely and never move forward to next thing :)))

    I also realised i enjoy a bit more just making presets and then watch what other people do with that presets, so maybe in future will concentrate more on making preset banks for various synths :-)))

  • I agree the self-expression aspect of music makes creating it an indispensable force for good in so many of our lives. But I also believe that taking the step to put your music (or your writing, or your art…) out there generates an entirely different energy. Perhaps some of that energy is negative, but those who actually release their creative output to the judgement of the world (which the negative voices almost never do) are worthy of tremendous respect. It’s a beautiful, healthy thing to do.

  • Money or love, the two driving forces, if you manage to combine both, you’re one lucky b@@t@@d. That’s goes for most thing’s. <3 <3 <3

  • @Svetlovska said:
    I think it is not straightforward.

    Clearly my stuff is the very opposite of commercial, and I’m way too old ugly and weird to want to be a pop star. I would also continue to make my noises even if I were the only one ever to hear them. But I’d also be lying if I denied the importance of being heard. Indeed, it was the very existence of the Creations section of this forum that persuaded me to return to making my noises after almost half a century away from it all.

    That space, my SoundCloud, and even the few tracks I have on BandCamp and Spotify offer me, if not a validation, then at least a context and frame for what I try to do. The possibility of some kind of audience, however small, pushes me to try to be better, to make each track a little more focused/exciting/worthwhile than the last.

    I know I have the self discipline to work, as I live, alone, and to keep buggering on, in life and , ahem ‘art’ , until I drop off the twig or lose my marbles. But still: it is nice to know you have been heard.

    I subscribe very much to Terror Management Theory on this: these little acts of creation are indeed the ‘fragments shored against our ruin’, as Eliot memorably put it. Terror Management Theory suggests that all acts of creation (and indeed procreation) are exactly that. Slender hopes, however faint, that in the absence of faith, something of ‘me’ might somehow nevertheless actually survive my inevitable bodily death, that some slim fragment of my particular mind will still be out there acting in the world, when the brain that gave it form is ashes, or food for worms.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror_management_theory

    It’s why, I think, I find the ancient legend of Beowulf so inexplicably, personally, moving, literally to the point of tears. One of our oldest legends. The story not of a bronzed archetypal demigod-hero so familiar from the Greek pantheon, but of a Nordic, terribly flawed, fundamentally human man, a braggart, a liar, a reluctant, deceitful and envious chancer become king who nevertheless at the last rises to greatness, and to the great and terrible fate that has always been his Wyrd; who goes as he must to meet his long ordained and inevitable death, a death whose shape he had made for himself a lifetime before. He goes to his final battle old, failing, with only one hope upon his lips. That the world remember his name.

    And we do.

    The bards who sang his tale are dust. But his song?: That still lives on.

    Bowie is the acme of that urge. Literally performing his own deathbed scene, (albeit that whilst he was making the video for Lazarus, he apparently knew he had cancer, but not that it was terminal). And once he did know: Authorising the video, the album Black Star, and then an anonymous disposal of his remains. He knew it would be the work that survived, not the worker.

    Damn.
    What a beautiful and profound post.
    I honestly wish that Michael would pin this one at the top of the forum.

  • Some great comments above…
    I do it because I enjoy it.
    I’d do it because a few years ago in my wildest dreams I would never have thought I could do anything like this so it’s like a beautiful gift.
    If anybody else likes it to the extent of listening then I appreciate it.
    If anybody takes the time out to comment then that is very generous of them and I appreciate it even more.
    Would I do it if nobody listened or commented… absolutely 😊

  • Great video.. that needed to be addressed.

  • Be useful. Be creative.

    That is what I try to live by.

  • @JeffChasteen said:

    @Svetlovska said:
    I think it is not straightforward.

    Clearly my stuff is the very opposite of commercial, and I’m way too old ugly and weird to want to be a pop star. I would also continue to make my noises even if I were the only one ever to hear them. But I’d also be lying if I denied the importance of being heard. Indeed, it was the very existence of the Creations section of this forum that persuaded me to return to making my noises after almost half a century away from it all.

    That space, my SoundCloud, and even the few tracks I have on BandCamp and Spotify offer me, if not a validation, then at least a context and frame for what I try to do. The possibility of some kind of audience, however small, pushes me to try to be better, to make each track a little more focused/exciting/worthwhile than the last.

    I know I have the self discipline to work, as I live, alone, and to keep buggering on, in life and , ahem ‘art’ , until I drop off the twig or lose my marbles. But still: it is nice to know you have been heard.

    I subscribe very much to Terror Management Theory on this: these little acts of creation are indeed the ‘fragments shored against our ruin’, as Eliot memorably put it. Terror Management Theory suggests that all acts of creation (and indeed procreation) are exactly that. Slender hopes, however faint, that in the absence of faith, something of ‘me’ might somehow nevertheless actually survive my inevitable bodily death, that some slim fragment of my particular mind will still be out there acting in the world, when the brain that gave it form is ashes, or food for worms.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror_management_theory

    It’s why, I think, I find the ancient legend of Beowulf so inexplicably, personally, moving, literally to the point of tears. One of our oldest legends. The story not of a bronzed archetypal demigod-hero so familiar from the Greek pantheon, but of a Nordic, terribly flawed, fundamentally human man, a braggart, a liar, a reluctant, deceitful and envious chancer become king who nevertheless at the last rises to greatness, and to the great and terrible fate that has always been his Wyrd; who goes as he must to meet his long ordained and inevitable death, a death whose shape he had made for himself a lifetime before. He goes to his final battle old, failing, with only one hope upon his lips. That the world remember his name.

    And we do.

    The bards who sang his tale are dust. But his song?: That still lives on.

    Bowie is the acme of that urge. Literally performing his own deathbed scene, (albeit that whilst he was making the video for Lazarus, he apparently knew he had cancer, but not that it was terminal). And once he did know: Authorising the video, the album Black Star, and then an anonymous disposal of his remains. He knew it would be the work that survived, not the worker.

    Damn.
    What a beautiful and profound post.
    I honestly wish that Michael would pin this one at the top of the forum.

    Yes, frankly this post was a hell of a lot more interesting than the Venus Theory vid which was pretty meh, imo 😂

  • edited May 2023

    I share most everyone's ideas here. Art isn't just a pastime, it demonstrates to whoever cares to notice, the difference between feeling alive and feeling dead. But also attention is a kind of nutrient that everyone needs a bit of for our health. It's also something we must 'pay' to appreciate things. It takes energy.

  • @Prog1967 said:
    “I write the music I like. If other people like it, fine, they can go buy the albums. And if they don’t like it, there’s always Michael Jackson for them to listen to.” – Frank Zappa

    I don't do something because I think it will sell 30 million albums. I couldn't care less. If it sells one, it sells one.

    Oscar Peterson

    Great spirit. In reality though, this coming from two of the best-selling musical superstars is about as helpful as Usain Bolt saying it's not about winning the Olympics, or Naomi Campbell saying beauty is overrated. 🙂👍

  • @dendy said:
    i make music just because i doesn't have anything better to do in my free time and watching netflix or playing games looks like wasted time to me :-))) I put "finished" songs online mainly to mark for myself line "it's finished" to move to another song, otherwise i tweak it indefinitely and never move forward to next thing :)))

    I also realised i enjoy a bit more just making presets and then watch what other people do with that presets, so maybe in future will concentrate more on making preset banks for various synths :-)))

    Your NS stuff is legendary, mate, so this sounds like good news to me. At least the part where you make more presets, not the part about fewer songs. 👌

  • My brother is a portrait artist and supplements his retirement by selling his art for anything from $25 for a print to $500 for a large original. Not a king’s ransom, but I’d love to be able to do that with my recorded music. The money he receives is nice, but more importantly it’s validation that what he does is worth something to someone else, and he’s pretty good at what he does!

    Unfortunately, unless we stream hundreds of thousands of times, making money does not apply to recorded music as we all know. I’d be lying if I said I didn't care whether people listening to my music or not, and I love it when I get positive comments. Over the past 20 years since I started recording my own music I’ve devoted a huge amount of time to it, and I like other folks’ verification that I’ve actually made progress because when I started I was clueless! I’m sure this applies to so many of us here.

    That said, I completely admit to myself that I do it 99% for myself. And that’s OK, because when things go well, I absolutely love creating something out of nothing. It’s like completing a jigsaw!

    I have a notion in the back of my mind that I am leaving a legacy to my adult children. Maybe one day long after I’m gone, one of their children may randomly listen to my lyrics and get an insight to what life was like for their grandfather in the early 21st century. That’s why I produce physical CDs, and spend weeks on artwork and presentation of a complete album, as well as the online stuff. It may be pure fantasy, but after I nagged him, my dad wrote a book about his life before he passed 10 years ago, and I am so glad he did.

  • @dendy thanks for the share! I kind of knew all this already, but it’s also nice to know we all feel like this at some points. A little validation every now and again for our feelings never hurts :)

  • To be honest: I'm that guy who will never hit play on your lousy dawless jams

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