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What stuff does Wotja- Generative Music System

spanaboy505spanaboy505
in General App Discussion

I’m curious about Wotja. I still don’t understand of what it actually does and its features. The description doesn’t give me much of a clue and there isn’t really any videos that give a clear idea, that’s just me though. I need of a more better understanding. Can someone explain in good detail of what amazing things it does.

Comments

  • RanDoM_rRayRanDoM_rRay

    i have it too somehow. generative? think it just grabs pieces of any app u got and plays them...somehow? idk i started it up yesterday n it started this long process of cataloging every music app i have. i have a lot so i eventually just messed with something else.

  • animalanimal

    Wotja generates audio and midi inside the space (instrument/scale/harmony/rhythm) that you define. Best way to start is (IMHO) opening a mix and finding what it‘s doing. Maybe best to start with a „pattern“-engine, where you can finely define which notes to play/how often etc. Wotja is very deep, just start playing around with it, it takes some time to get around its features…, to me it is VERY rewarding (been playing with it for ten years, though…)

  • HotStrangeHotStrange

    I think the best way to figure out it is to just dive in. There’s a tutorial patch I think and the app is good about spelling stuff out easy enough where you can kinda pick it up as you go. That’s what I did and it’s great. I still haven’t scratched the surface but got the bare essentials down.

  • ltf3ltf3

    Conceptually Wotja has two components, a MIDI note composer and a built in modular synth.

    The composer can generate ( no musical input from the user ) music in several ways - musically rhythmic notes, ambient time based notes, Pattern based notes, Notes based on Text input, plus special tracks which will Follow any of these , or even repeat them over and over with a delay.

    Each of these types of composer modes has a lot of probability based parameters to dial in. Things like which notes in a scale are used, the length of each note generated, the next note interval, whether chords are produced, the depth and spread of the chord.... in addition to all the usual MIDI CC stuff. Yeah it's a lot .. and it's all happening over 16 midi channels into the multi timbral synth. Midi output feeds midi outs like the apps on iOS/Mac/PC

    The synth is modular and contains sound generating nodes like Oscillators, Samples ( sound fonts ) , then filters, envelopes, modulators, effects. This is presented in a customizable flow-chart GUI ... don't expect a standard synth panel. The synth can be turned off, used separately or in combination with the Midi outputs.

    Once you have a composition running Wotja allows it all to be randomized with a set of configurable randomization parameters.

    Or you can just generate a random composition at the get go, and work from there. I think that's what many users do!

    The standalone app supports AU3 plugin instruments and effects .... OR you can run Wotja as an AU3 plugin inside another host ( Ive used it in Cubasis .. and inside Logic on the Mac ).

    There's more ... but these are the bones.

    Wotja isn't going to make a structured pop song ... it can be cajoled into producing interesting, meandering work, which I guess you could export as MIDI and work on from there. But TBH I've tried that, and it definitely hasn't gone that way I expected ... my limitations to be clear. However it is way-fun to mess with... enjoying the moment.. hearing flashes of stuff you think have potential then losing them forever.

    Wotja is great to DO, less attractive to those around who might be listening! Again, might be my limitations!

    I think the devs see Wojta as a tool for making Wotja compositions which are then shared and played back in Wotja....

    There is very detailed documentation linked in the app, and the devs are extremely responsive to questions a feedback.

    I dont use it everyday, but come back to it regularly... and am happy to pay the annual subscription as a small tip for the enormous amount of work this represents.

  • MasangaMasanga

    Here's a 2023 update of the 1-minute quickstart giftorial I did a couple of years ago (original here):

    1. Start from a Flow. These are collections of randomisation templates that will be randomly selected between to auto-create pieces in an infinite generative radio. (You can also build a piece up from scratch, but this is the quick-entry route.) Generate new pieces by hitting the fast-forward button.
    2. Save the current piece to a Mix (a single editable piece), which will allow you to examine and edit how it’s built.
    3. Open the resulting Mix. Most of the built-in Flows generate Mixes with three tracks of four Cells each. Click on a Cell to access its internal construction.
    4. Each Cell consists of one or more Generators (algorithmic note-composition modules) on the left, each speaking to a modular hybrid synth network patch on the right via a MIDI channel; the audio output then passes through an effects chain. Click on the synth network or effects chain to see inside either, and on each component in the network to see and edit its parameters.
    5. Click on a Generator to select it, and scroll the parameter pane for all the various things you can set and tweak. (This is where it gets deep and you need to burrow into the copious in-app documentation, but the heaviest lifting is done by the Rules section.)

      I think @RanDoM_rRay must have tapped on the plugin scanner, which you only need to do if you're using Wotja as an AU host.
  • HotStrangeHotStrange

    @ltf3 said:
    Conceptually Wotja has two components, a MIDI note composer and a built in modular synth.

    The composer can generate ( no musical input from the user ) music in several ways - musically rhythmic notes, ambient time based notes, Pattern based notes, Notes based on Text input, plus special tracks which will Follow any of these , or even repeat them over and over with a delay.

    Each of these types of composer modes has a lot of probability based parameters to dial in. Things like which notes in a scale are used, the length of each note generated, the next note interval, whether chords are produced, the depth and spread of the chord.... in addition to all the usual MIDI CC stuff. Yeah it's a lot .. and it's all happening over 16 midi channels into the multi timbral synth. Midi output feeds midi outs like the apps on iOS/Mac/PC

    The synth is modular and contains sound generating nodes like Oscillators, Samples ( sound fonts ) , then filters, envelopes, modulators, effects. This is presented in a customizable flow-chart GUI ... don't expect a standard synth panel. The synth can be turned off, used separately or in combination with the Midi outputs.

    Once you have a composition running Wotja allows it all to be randomized with a set of configurable randomization parameters.

    Or you can just generate a random composition at the get go, and work from there. I think that's what many users do!

    The standalone app supports AU3 plugin instruments and effects .... OR you can run Wotja as an AU3 plugin inside another host ( Ive used it in Cubasis .. and inside Logic on the Mac ).

    There's more ... but these are the bones.

    Wotja isn't going to make a structured pop song ... it can be cajoled into producing interesting, meandering work, which I guess you could export as MIDI and work on from there. But TBH I've tried that, and it definitely hasn't gone that way I expected ... my limitations to be clear. However it is way-fun to mess with... enjoying the moment.. hearing flashes of stuff you think have potential then losing them forever.

    Wotja is great to DO, less attractive to those around who might be listening! Again, might be my limitations!

    I think the devs see Wojta as a tool for making Wotja compositions which are then shared and played back in Wotja....

    There is very detailed documentation linked in the app, and the devs are extremely responsive to questions a feedback.

    I dont use it everyday, but come back to it regularly... and am happy to pay the annual subscription as a small tip for the enormous amount of work this represents.

    This is a great write up. I’ll even use it to make a composition that I record and then export to chop and sample elsewhere. Also feeding a bunch of AUs into it and having it randomize loops from those has led me to some crazy ideas and rhythms. It’s a really great app and the devs seem very committed to it which is super nice.

  • spanaboy505spanaboy505

    @animal said:
    Wotja generates audio and midi inside the space (instrument/scale/harmony/rhythm) that you define. Best way to start is (IMHO) opening a mix and finding what it‘s doing. Maybe best to start with a „pattern“-engine, where you can finely define which notes to play/how often etc. Wotja is very deep, just start playing around with it, it takes some time to get around its features…, to me it is VERY rewarding (been playing with it for ten years, though…)

    @ltf3 said:
    Conceptually Wotja has two components, a MIDI note composer and a built in modular synth.

    The composer can generate ( no musical input from the user ) music in several ways - musically rhythmic notes, ambient time based notes, Pattern based notes, Notes based on Text input, plus special tracks which will Follow any of these , or even repeat them over and over with a delay.

    Each of these types of composer modes has a lot of probability based parameters to dial in. Things like which notes in a scale are used, the length of each note generated, the next note interval, whether chords are produced, the depth and spread of the chord.... in addition to all the usual MIDI CC stuff. Yeah it's a lot .. and it's all happening over 16 midi channels into the multi timbral synth. Midi output feeds midi outs like the apps on iOS/Mac/PC

    The synth is modular and contains sound generating nodes like Oscillators, Samples ( sound fonts ) , then filters, envelopes, modulators, effects. This is presented in a customizable flow-chart GUI ... don't expect a standard synth panel. The synth can be turned off, used separately or in combination with the Midi outputs.

    Once you have a composition running Wotja allows it all to be randomized with a set of configurable randomization parameters.

    Or you can just generate a random composition at the get go, and work from there. I think that's what many users do!

    The standalone app supports AU3 plugin instruments and effects .... OR you can run Wotja as an AU3 plugin inside another host ( Ive used it in Cubasis .. and inside Logic on the Mac ).

    There's more ... but these are the bones.

    Wotja isn't going to make a structured pop song ... it can be cajoled into producing interesting, meandering work, which I guess you could export as MIDI and work on from there. But TBH I've tried that, and it definitely hasn't gone that way I expected ... my limitations to be clear. However it is way-fun to mess with... enjoying the moment.. hearing flashes of stuff you think have potential then losing them forever.

    Wotja is great to DO, less attractive to those around who might be listening! Again, might be my limitations!

    I think the devs see Wojta as a tool for making Wotja compositions which are then shared and played back in Wotja....

    There is very detailed documentation linked in the app, and the devs are extremely responsive to questions a feedback.

    I dont use it everyday, but come back to it regularly... and am happy to pay the annual subscription as a small tip for the enormous amount of work this represents.

    @Masanga said:
    Here's a 2023 update of the 1-minute quickstart giftorial I did a couple of years ago (original here):

    1. Start from a Flow. These are collections of randomisation templates that will be randomly selected between to auto-create pieces in an infinite generative radio. (You can also build a piece up from scratch, but this is the quick-entry route.) Generate new pieces by hitting the fast-forward button.
    2. Save the current piece to a Mix (a single editable piece), which will allow you to examine and edit how it’s built.
    3. Open the resulting Mix. Most of the built-in Flows generate Mixes with three tracks of four Cells each. Click on a Cell to access its internal construction.
    4. Each Cell consists of one or more Generators (algorithmic note-composition modules) on the left, each speaking to a modular hybrid synth network patch on the right via a MIDI channel; the audio output then passes through an effects chain. Click on the synth network or effects chain to see inside either, and on each component in the network to see and edit its parameters.
    5. Click on a Generator to select it, and scroll the parameter pane for all the various things you can set and tweak. (This is where it gets deep and you need to burrow into the copious in-app documentation, but the heaviest lifting is done by the Rules section.)

      I think @RanDoM_rRay must have tapped on the plugin scanner, which you only need to do if you're using Wotja as an AU host.

    Thanks guys. Now I have a more better understanding. Definitely the onetime purchase would be something to get

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
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  • MasangaMasanga
    edited July 2023

    @ehehehe said:
    I checked it out and found the UI and workflow cumbersome and the results underwhelming. Sounded like an ambient muzak-generator.

    In fairness, that's exactly what it is (among many other things). Part of its genius is that you don't need to peer down the vertiginous rabbithole at all if all you want is infinite ambient radio and you're happy with just the built-in Flow schemes; two taps is all it takes, and without going into the UI at all you can easily personalise it by making your own selections from the hundreds of built-in templates. But equally you can ignore all of that and just build your own infinite systems from the ground up; as @ltf3 says, it's all just built around MIDI note generators and modular synth networks, and the complexity is just in the enormous number of affordances it offers with each. What it can't (easily) do is chord progressions; some might feel those are the devil's crutches anyway, but you certainly wouldn't go to Wotja for generative jazz. Drones, beats, and fugues are its forte.

    I know some people aren't fans of the UI, though I've never been quite sure why. (It did use to be pretty horrendous in the pre-Wotja days when the sliders were knobs, but everything now just screams "Tweak mee!" "No, tweak meee!") I particularly love being able to peer in the windows of my apartment building full of little musical automata sitting at their instruments waiting for their cue, like a robot version of Perec's Life A User's Manual.

  • ltf3ltf3

    @ehehehe said:
    I checked it out and found the UI and workflow cumbersome and the results underwhelming. Sounded like an ambient muzak-generator.

    I get this.

    If your goal is to control, understand and refine a piece in a 'multitrack, DAW, 'build-up-an-arrangement kind of way' you are going to give up.

    To be clear, I have spent untold wasted hours starting from a blank Wotja canvas and trying to add components in a way that I can later tweak because I "know' what is happening ( perhaps like editing a synth patch) and therefore can direct the output. No go.

    "Wasted" is too strong a term .. I have no music to show for it... but I enjoyed the time spent. But then I do find drilling into GUI's and systems quite fun. Sometimes I feel I've hit on what the developer is actually "thinking" ... it's a moment like when a song clicks with a listener... I'm probably odd but it's true.

    All to say I go to Wotja when I feel like messing around, looking for a happy accident , no goals, perhaps an idea of running a couple of synths/samplers to see how they sound together... sometimes I even end up thinking it sounds good and save a composition. Invariably the next day when I revisit the piece, I laugh and think "dear lord where was my head at... what a racket!". But hey, my head was somewhere!

    That said I have used it once for some stage play music ( semi-pro) they loved it. And for some podcast cues ... so it's possible.

    I too wish for some more structural tools in there ... but that's not what it is. You could run it in Logic as a plugin, and use Logic to provide the structural tracks ... arpeggios, percussion, drums etc.

    As a further hint it is also possible to take a DAW track ( or a MIDI keyboard in real time ) and feed it into a Wotja "Listening" track which will compose based on the input and of course all the other parameters! I've never put the effort in to explore that. But now that I mention it...

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  • MasangaMasanga

    @ehehehe said:
    I know it has advanced features, but overall it sounded artificial, timid and very boring. It's no problem making ambient, but _good _ambient? Maybe it's been done a couple of times throughout history?

    Well, its very first iteration thirty years ago made Eno's Generative Music, since when it's got immeasurably more capable. If you're not a fan of the built-in synths, sampler, and fx, don't forget it can also be an AUv3 host pumping generative MIDI into your sound sources of choice.

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  • magnusovimagnusovi

    Hi y’all. Two quick questions/requests. Can someone tell me if their phone gets hot after running Wotja standalone for long periods of time? And, lastly, could someone send me an example of a gloomy/dark Wotja composition?

    Thank you!!!!

  • impeteimpete

    @magnusovi said:
    Hi y’all. Two quick questions/requests. Can someone tell me if their phone gets hot after running Wotja standalone for long periods of time? And, lastly, could someone send me an example of a gloomy/dark Wotja composition?

    Thank you!!!!

    Hi! The best place to ask questions related to Wotja 24 is in this thread:

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/59017/wotja-24-arriving-on-january-1st-2024

    Hope to see you there!

    Best wishes, Pete

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