For EU users: right of withdrawal in the App Store

wim

@dendy said:
We will slowly become underdeveloped museum where civilised world will go just for vacation to enjoy nature.

I’m up for that!

wingwizard

@NeuM said:

@wingwizard said:

@NeuM said:

@wingwizard said:

No, we are not ‘lucky’ to have laws protecting our basic rights from companies who exist solely to take our money, and regularly infringe those rights lol. That’s the whole point, they are lucky to be allowed to operate and grow into the huge corporate giant they are. We are not lucky to have iPads. They are lucky we are buying them. Because if we don’t buy their stuff they die. We dont need them. We can buy any other product we like.

So yes, I will always get a refund on apps when I want. It’s my right. It’s not like I’m going into the Steve jobs memorial temple for Good Works/ AppStore buying every app then immediately asking for a refund, whilst cackling beneath the waxing moon, licking a photo of bill gates. Jesus Christ. Lol. I buy a lot of music apps. Sometimes they’re shit. Sometimes they’re amazing. I return the shit ones. I will write a letter of apology later for giving them so much business.

And yes, actually I do uninstall those apps. Because I don’t like them. Hence the refund. Perhaps you should establish that a person is engaged in come nefarious activity before accusing them. Sometimes I might forget. I don’t care. At all. I don’t feel the same unrequited obeisance toward a company as some.

It’s rare that I fall asleep think ‘gosh. I hope Apple is ok.’

I'm not going to address all of that (and I couldn't because the system here said the post was too long), but I will address the idea that companies only exist to "take (your) money" and "infringe" on your rights. Companies exist to make a profit and you have a choice to choose whichever company you want to buy from. Don't like Apple? Get an Android. Android doesn't carry the same apps as Apple? Well, that's because the developers themselves have made that decision. You can't force developers to choose an inferior platform.

The idea that companies exist to infringe your rights is not mine. You can’t put quotation marks around a single word then insert it into a sentence as though I said it.

Companies only exist to take your money. Companies exist only because they take your money. Companies literally are the result of the taking of money. That is what making a profit is. They are profit. Or they cease to exist. That has no moral aspect. Good, nor bad. And so it needs regulating.

I don’t know what your point is re developers. Of course, and by the same token companies choose what to sell and to who. If they don’t like the conditions to do so they can shut up shop and do something else.

@SevenSystems said:

@NeuM said:

@wingwizard said:

No, we are not ‘lucky’ to have laws protecting our basic rights from companies who exist solely to take our money, and regularly infringe those rights lol. That’s the whole point, they are lucky to be allowed to operate and grow into the huge corporate giant they are. We are not lucky to have iPads. They are lucky we are buying them. Because if we don’t buy their stuff they die. We dont need them. We can buy any other product we like.

So yes, I will always get a refund on apps when I want. It’s my right. It’s not like I’m going into the Steve jobs memorial temple for Good Works/ AppStore buying every app then immediately asking for a refund, whilst cackling beneath the waxing moon, licking a photo of bill gates. Jesus Christ. Lol. I buy a lot of music apps. Sometimes they’re shit. Sometimes they’re amazing. I return the shit ones. I will write a letter of apology later for giving them so much business.

And yes, actually I do uninstall those apps. Because I don’t like them. Hence the refund. Perhaps you should establish that a person is engaged in come nefarious activity before accusing them. Sometimes I might forget. I don’t care. At all. I don’t feel the same unrequited obeisance toward a company as some.

It’s rare that I fall asleep think ‘gosh. I hope Apple is ok.’

I'm not going to address all of that (and I couldn't because the system here said the post was too long), but I will address the idea that companies only exist to "take (your) money" and "infringe" on your rights. Companies exist to make a profit and you have a choice to choose whichever company you want to buy from.

Yes, I was going to say this. Companies can't "take" your money. You give them their money, voluntarily.

But I know of an entity that can take your money, and will do so and if you don't let them, they'll put you in prison: governments 😄

I'm just often surprised how much many people seem to love governments and hate corporations. If you think about it, corporations are much closer to "normal people" than governments are. Because corporations largely consist of "normal people" that, yes, want to make money. Meanwhile, governments "make" money by forcibly extracting it from "normal people" at gunpoint. I simply don't get why people think that governments are somehow "nicer" or "less evil" than corporations? All the facts seem to imply it's the other way around actually.

You can't force developers to choose an inferior platform.

Don't give them ideas in Brussels 😂

I don’t hate corporations. I’m just aware of the fact that they need regulation. And yes they can take your money. Unless you don’t need water, food, electricity, bank accounts… etc etc. It’s not an either/or. Governments are shitty too. You don’t get to be the head of a company by being an absolutely lovely person.

The bit in bold is obviously deranged. lol. We can all pick examples of mikitary juntas or the companies murdering people with chemicals etc.

If we’re going to be fair then governments are also employed and fired by the population. Their purpose is to run a country. A company;s is to make money.. And governments as well as being involved in all kinds of disgusting behaviour build hospitals etc etc etc. It’s just a pointless reductive position to take to say either is good or bad.

No. facts don’t imply it’s the other way round. You’ve literally just made that up.lol. There are plenty of evils to go round and plenty of reasons to argue either way. Which would be about as fruitful as the Joshua tree.

You’re just for whatever reason conflating not blindly loving corporations with loving government. I’ve never met anyone who loves the government in my life, except if I’m honest the odd American. Shrug.

Look. I am willing to bet a have far greater reasons to dislike the government at the moment than the overwhelming majority of people here. I can’t go into it as I have PTSD because of it. But I am disabled and it’s very hard to live in my country at the moment - and I mean, actually live, due to stuff I just can’t talk about it.

Beyond this post I find no need to discuss this with you further. You said this:

You’ve been nothing but one-eyed from the start so that comes as a relief. Many thanks. Remarkable coincidence it comes after being, quite politely, invited to say why I’m wrong about the regs.

The section you have gone to the rather amusing trouble of capping, quoting and underlining in yellow, demonstrates exactly what I said. That you misquoted me. Reading comprehension not being a strong suit of yours is not your fault, but the weird hubristic tenor of your posts on here is, particularly given your talent for being wrong. The sentence contains two clauses, separated by a comma. The first concerns what companies exist for, the second what they do in addition to this. Hence the ‘and’. And why you separately quoted two things as though they were one. It’s almost impossible to interpret it the way you did with the word regularly in there as it would be splitting infinitives if you try to crowbar the second clause into the first, and feels awful and clunky to anyone who isn’t absolutely determined to do so.

@dendy said:
Another good example of retarded EU regulations - Claude 3 (latest LLM model, in some aspects better thst GPT 4) - because of Brusel idiots regulations they made it unavailable for EU.

We will slowly become underdeveloped museum where civilised world will go just for vacation to enjoy nature.

** There is reason why Americans calls us "Europoors". We shit on ourselves. Voluntarily.**

while in Europe, that dank cultureless backwater, they have nothing but respect and admiration for their fellows over the pond.

SevenSystems

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I just found the latest development in the "EU vs Basic Economics" case too funny!

So this Digital Markets Act stuff prohibits the usage of user data for advertising etc... you know what I mean.

So companies (at least Meta) have instead opted to offer users to either agree to this data usage and being able to continue using the service for free (with ads), or pay for the service without ads.

Buuuuuuuut the EU is STILL angry! Because the evil corporations "don't really leave users a choice" and "users will agree anyway to avoid paying for the service" 😂

So not only are corporations not allowed to use user data to finance their services, but the services apparently ALSO have to be FREE 😄

Man the lengths the EU is going to finally achieve the squaring of the economic and common sense circles is admirable!

Danny_Mammy

far as I'm concerned the EU should do more ass whipping.

SevenSystems

@Danny_Mammy said:
far as I'm concerned the EU should do more ass whipping.

Yeah but at some point, NOBODY will want to do business in the EU anymore, and that might pose a problem! I mean yeah, EU citizens will then have ALL THE RIGHTS, but nobody they can enforce their rights against anymore 😄

NeuM

@SevenSystems said:
Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I just found the latest development in the "EU vs Basic Economics" case too funny!

So this Digital Markets Act stuff prohibits the usage of user data for advertising etc... you know what I mean.

So companies (at least Meta) have instead opted to offer users to either agree to this data usage and being able to continue using the service for free (with ads), or pay for the service without ads.

Buuuuuuuut the EU is STILL angry! Because the evil corporations "don't really leave users a choice" and "users will agree anyway to avoid paying for the service" 😂

So not only are corporations not allowed to use user data to finance their services, but the services apparently ALSO have to be FREE 😄

Man the lengths the EU is going to finally achieve the squaring of the economic and common sense circles is admirable!

Although I’m no fan of Facebook, use of the free service is voluntary… the EU seems intent on sending their population into a new Dark Ages.

NeuM

@SevenSystems said:

@Danny_Mammy said:
far as I'm concerned the EU should do more ass whipping.

Yeah but at some point, NOBODY will want to do business in the EU anymore, and that might pose a problem! I mean yeah, EU citizens will then have ALL THE RIGHTS, but nobody they can enforce their rights against anymore 😄

👍 Succinctly stated.