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How to match or know if my kick or bass is in a good eq range?
I have always wondered how to match or to know if my kick or baseline is in a good range. Is there a way to do this? Also wondering if there’s a tuner app to know what key is my sample in. Thanks as always learning:)
Comments
What kick? What bass?
You have to EQ them into separate bands, the kick just low, the bass low but possibly extended with mids and highs (three bands, multi band compression / eq, etc)
Multiband is the keyword
But the specific center frequencies have to be tuned to the specific sounds
I mean a kick bass drum to see if it has too much bass or not .
And the only way to tune is by ear. You can get a number from an app or whatever. It will never be as good as an 👂
It’s not so hard to learn. There’s even some nice apps nowadays.
Back in my time we had to press an ear to the railroad to get a proper B flat tuning
I think you can compare sounds in Audioscope and Trinity if that helps at all.
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/na-tuner/id1613197835
If you just want to do this quick and then get specific at the mixing stage, just cut you kicks at 20/30hz range... you can do the same with bass.
The easiest Soultion is to look at the phase between the two. moving the kick or bass on the timeline so the wave forms match. your bass will pop out if aligned.
If they are completing for frequencies which they most likely will, try boosting some low/mids.
As for tuning, you can use a spectrum analyser to find the fundamental frequency or pitch the bass/kick up an octave to hear the tone easier.
oh, and what most pros do for speed is when the bass and kick are competing too much for frequency space, they just find a new kick, it's just quicker.
side chain compression is another one to use.
Thanks for the tips
In general it’s good to practice using your ears for this. Obviously they occupy a similar register, but the character of each isn’t going to be within a narrow band of frequencies.
Listen to see if just the bass and the kick sound muddy together (with nothing else in the mix), and see if you can identify where that occurs by sweeping a notch filter across each instrument so you know where to notch out frequencies.
If you want a real challenge, do it with a 3 band channel strip EQ - that’s how it was done for decades.
Having a good ear for it helps enormously. If you rely on things like a spectrum analysis to identify the peaks and notch them, you can miss out on making a good sounding mix. Sometimes a little mud can be better than a mix that was done with surgical precision.
Reference against material that is comparable to your own aim. (https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/creating-your-own-reference-cd)
It's often surprising how much less low frequency there is in tracks that we might assume to be really bassy, that we remember as really bassy, that we experience in clubs as really bassy.
Always turn volume down on the reference to match your current productions volume so you are comparing like for like and dont get misled by the different overall volume thus actually hear the eq difference not the volume difference.
(EDIT, btw, a low G note at 49 Hz, is about the lowest I would have as the fundamental of a kick - maybe I've even used an F, but it really starts to clog up the low end below that, and I'm almost always high passing stuff lower than 40 anyway,, and higher than D above that which is 73 Hz, is too much like an 80s pop rock kick for most of us doing contemporary electronic styles. They still can work, but I like them deeper than 80 but definitely not deeper than 45.
Aside from the importance of referencing so as to have a feel for quite how much low end energy feels about right and isn't clogging up the whole mix, then all the usual stuff everyone else would say and you'll find tons of tutorials on, such as "unmasking / eq juggling" (not always completely surgically possible, but almost certainly helps at least a little), relatedly multiband compressing particular notches, sidechain compressing (sometimes great, sometimes not appropriate), or alternatively using something like trackspacer to auto do it https://www.wavesfactory.com/audio-plugins/trackspacer/
i agree however if the person is new to music, he might not have the understanding or confidence to trust his ears.
using a tuner can help build the understanding of hearing.
I'd definitely use the "low pass filter trick" where you use a lowpass filter on the master to ensure proper bass management so there's no mud/conflicts in the low end.
It's also how you program the notes. I also sidechain the bass to the kick so the bass is ducked when the kick comes in. Adjust that to taste.
In my own case I have hearing damage which prevents me from being able to hear very low bass notes in tune and I have to rely on visual cues or temporary track repitching before creating a final mix. All ears are not equal so a person should use whatever works for them.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/k1ecles5rknnoy6iulx7x/Bass-Management-converted.m4a?rlkey=9ltldwe1kwwpq8obov8dwdx5p&dl=0
Okay, here are two examples in one audio file. This was made quickly so may not be the best example.
The first 4 bars of each example are without lowpass filter. The second 4 bars have lowpass applied.
The first example is what NOT to do and how a beginner may work on a track.
There is no sidechaining of the bass, and the kickdrum is in "one shot" mode. The bass notes are too long and produce a "run on" low end, which sucks the punch out of the kick (which is barely audible in the low end).
The second example is how to manage your low end (at least in EDM).
The sidechain is applied to the bass...
...(although you can adjust yours to taste), the kickdrum is not in "one shot" mode and has a short release so as to make it shorter. The bass notes are shorter as well, and when the lowpass filter is applied, you can hear both the punch of the kick and the separation of the bass (no "run on" low end).
Of course bass management can vary between genres.
Does it ahem "slap"?
you mean high pass right? = frequencies higher than, can pass. while frequencies lower than, are cut. eg, set at 40.
Pretty detailed:
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/mixing-bass
Hipass is for mixing the bass. Temporary lowpass is for checking the low end frequencies to make sure they aren't clashing. Sort of like a magnifying glass.
Gotcha
Good points all around @jwmmakerofmusic. I think some people underestimate and overlook sidechaining in the mastering process. It’s not just a cool effect but has all kinds of uses.
Probably more likely in the mixing phase rather than mastering though. Mastering is usually done on a stereo mixdown, so there aren’t really applications for sidechaining during mastering.
Somehow I missed @HotStrange 's comment here. Sorry about that.
Right, sidechaining is strictly for mixing, not mastering. If you sidechained the entire mastered track to something else, it'll sound absolute rubbish.
Well you wouldn’t really have anything to sidechain it to. You really should have your mix finalized before you master it.
Exactly what I do anyways.
I do mix into a basic limiter slammed mediumish (squashing out a lot of the dynamics), but once finished with the mixdown I remove the limiter and lower the loudest parts of the trackdown to around -12dB peak. After printing to audio, I master it in Cubasis 3 with MagicDeathEyeStereo, TB Reelbus, and TB Barricade to around -14 LuFS. If I'm aiming for a Lofi sound, I will add RX950 before MDES.
Mastering is an art form in itself. If I did it right I would spend hours fixing dynamics issues and odd EQ issues, but often I’ll work on the overall sound, and not worry about tony details.
It’s easier than it used to be anyway, as everyone has got used to listening to over-compressed formats, so there’s less need to be subtle than in the past.
Putting remasters alongside original masters for older music is a good way to show how much more generic the mastering approach has become. There are quite a few remasters that really sound awful.
I agree. Now me I used to squash the everliving shit out of my tracks (up to -7 LuFS in many cases) up until I discovered the Lofi genre last year November. Once I started mastering at -14 LuFS, everything sounds far better and with more punch and dynamics. My tracks can actually breathe.
"Remasters" often sound rubbish compared to the original releases. I no longer participate in the "loudness wars" and prefer a fuller dynamic range. Streaming services will simply lower the volume until it's -14 LuFS anyways, so why bother brickwalling the shit out of a mix?
Right, I know. Just a misunderstanding. That’s why I said “mastering process” and not just mastering only. Mixing is part of the process but I guess I wasn’t clear enough. Thanks though 👍🏻
Like in rock/metal music where the guitars are sidechained to allow the snare to cut through the mix. And in pop music to duck any instrument in the relevant areas slightly to give more space to the vocals.
I guess I wasn’t very clear with my post, but even so, the replies and answers can be beneficial to me and maybe others. What
I’m trying to say is, I often mix in headphones and what I think might sound nice in the headphones or even on my small speakers, may sound differently on other systems. So, I’m trying to have a reference track and then compare the bass frequencies or high frequencies, to know I’m
In good range. I use Barricade EQ, but not sure if it has “compare” mode, if so how?
Thanks again !
4pockets audioscope might be what you want
https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/audioscope/id6447353824
(misleading name for the app, read the full description)
And @SevenSystems Trinity
https://www.seven.systems/trinity/en/index/
Personally I'm still waiting for an AUv3 that is anything like MetricAB, MagicAB, Melda MCompare, MasteringTheMix Reference,
I just want a comprehensive A/B ing tool
nevertheless you can always do it manually, just switch between your final mix (probably on a submix) and reference audio, using ears + all the metering tools you have.
(how about a kickstarter project for trinity 2.0 AUv3 with a matrix of references?!)
EDIT
Also Logic and Fabfilter both do EQ match (others too?) albeit I personally found I prefer what I do by ears rather than software detection, but still, worth comparing, and deciding for yourself
I'd be all in on that! We'd just have to agree on a realistic goal for the Kickstarter 🥴