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Epic Wins!!!: Is this the end of App Store as we know it?
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/google-epic-legal-defeat-threatens-060401137.html
As many app addicts know, Epic games sued Google (and Apple) after being kicked off App Store for creating their own payment system to avoid Apples 30% commission.
They just won their antitrust lawsuit against Google. Many believe this will likely apply to Apple and all other companies (smart tvs, gaming, etc) that follow App Store business model despite Apple defeating a similar suit in 2021. Many say the difference is Apples win was decided by a single judge where the most recent verdict by jury will likely set the precedent.
Epic CEO Tim Sweeney says:
“ The same thing will start happening with Apple…. The economics are real. When you remove a 30% tax from an ecosystem, consumer prices will get better. Or quality will get better and selection will increase.”
Personally, I call bullshit on the consumer prices will get better part. Yeah. Right.
What think you?
Specifically interested in how Devs feel about this new state of things?
Aren’t you excited at the possibility of receiving more compensation for your work?
How likely are you to pass the money you make/save on Apple commission to your users?
Comments
I doubt there are music app developers who aren't eligible for the existing "Small Business program". So most of us probably weren't paying 30% commission anyway - we pay a reasonable 15% instead.
You have to make 1 million USD or more in proceeds to be in the 30% commission segment. I'm not as Epic as Epic, so I'm pretty freaking far from that threshold
Honestly, even if we would pay 0% (which would obviously be unreasonable for all the services Apple provide) my returns per invested hour are not competitive with even a junior level IT/dev job so I'm not sure why I would pass savings on to consumers at this point (even though I fortunately don't have to live off of my app projects)?
Disclaimer: I'm not speaking for all [music app] developers
Amen
Certainly for me 😂 But on the flipside -- music app development is far more fun than any IT job (as long as you're still in the design and development phase and not in the marketing and App Store Screenshots phases 😉)
First, being that you are one of the very best on the platform, I greatly appreciate your input and perspective.
I couldn’t imagine you dropping any prices considering how valuable and affordable your apps are. It would be theft to purchase them for less and I personally think Devs who create worldclass warez and price them for the masses should be better compensated.
Do you think this ruling will have a great impact on the overall market or as I submitted; just transfer cash from Apple to the bigger devs like Epic?
This is a picture of me making App Store screenshots, 86 different icon formats, and video demos for the App Store review oompaloompas.
And this is why we appreciate you guys so much.
I think for just about all of you your projects are a labor of love, and I can’t imagine how empty the App Store would be without you.
I'm sceptical, but I'm not AppStore-savvy enough to know how much of a factor price is in the gaming and content-streaming segments. I reckon those are pretty much the only real high-volume paid content categories on the App Store (with the exception of e.g. some Adobe subscription stuff and a handful of other outliers).
I doubt it will make much of a change in any of the niche categories such as our own.
Apple may decide to make some changes for the big players. Perhaps allow them to implement their own subscription payment systems or slightly lower the commission rates for them too.
Hey @SevenSystems ! Another of my favs. Still use your pads and keys when creating on iPads 💪🏽!
So do you think this ruling will have any impact on the overall App Store at all?
Typically, every action has a reaction. I wonder how the Googles and Apples will respond to this type of possible revenue loss.
Thanks @brambos that is reassuring 🙏🏽
I think it's good and will most likely increase more freedom for developers and consumers.
It might help bigger apps/stores come to iOS in the future, but who knows?
I think the significant thing is not the 30% but that one day it will probably seem strange that Apple was once allowed to block anyone else from selling iOS software.
Keep in mind that Epic is a huge developer capable of building its own infrastructure. What is good for them is not necessarily good for small developers or consumers.
This was not necessarily a “what is best for the consumer “ type lawsuit.
I agree. Tim Sweeney, Epic’s CEO doesn’t…
Epic CEO Tim Sweeney says:
“The economics are real. When you remove a 30% tax from an ecosystem, consumer prices will get better. Or quality will get better and selection will increase.”
He clearly thinks this is a pro consumer decision that will have a domino effect.
Kind of sounds like the same rhetoric that has been used to support trickle-down economics.
Agreed @michael_m
I think the thoughts shared by @espiegel123 and @brambos land where I’m at with it.
Although I’m open to those who see another perspective or think that other large Developers have stayed away from the platform due to Apples commissions.
I remember hearing Netflix and other companies complaining about it so I’m sure there will be a lot of coverage, responses and perspectives shared in the coming days, weeks and months.
Okay, you know what? I am damn sick and tired of people using that ableist term! I have Autism and have been called that before. Stop using that f--king word! It's discriminatory!
I appreciate any and all attention and response to this matter. However, I won’t tolerate any offensive terms used here or elsewhere.
Please edit your post to remove a certain term that may offend many people here @Darkstring I’ll give you the benefit of doubt that offending people isn’t your intent which is why I haven’t just deleted it myself.
I’m addressing it publicly because the comment was made publicly.
Thanks.
Ditto, I've been called that too way too many times as my brain is apparently not really wired like so called 'majority'.
While I don't have a medical diagnose it's pretty darn close...
I decided to delete the post as it has clearly offended others and also issued a warning that it won’t be tolerated privately and publicly.
It’s not cool to offend folks—at all.
*for the record, I have no reason to believe Darkstring intended to offend anyone and give all people the benefit of doubt until otherwise informed.
Same as mine mate.
My brain still functions perfectly fine, just wired differently. I've seen the word used casually on occasion around here and have flagged each post. But it's about time I spoke up.
I never knew that about you, but there's absolutely no shame in raising awareness for mental health issues.
I dont believe that word is discriminatory. Sorry, i have always understood it to mean faulty. Go ahead and ban me for thinking wrong.
It's the same as racist language. Unless you're neurodiverse yourself or are close with someone who's neurodiverse, you don't understand sh-t about that word. Take your able privilege elsewhere!
I don't know what's in that mug, but I want half of it! 😄
Probably by increasing hardware and other services pricing. I mean, it's capitalism. Anytime governments try to "save" consumers by introducing more regulations, companies will compensate by raising prices, so the net effect on pricing is nil, while the overall effect is negative (more regulations = more complexity = even higher prices). But I don't think these news have arrived in politician brains yet, even after centuries of experience.
Ugggggh. This is what I’m afraid of. $200B isn’t peanuts and will have to be made up for elsewhere.
I don't understand all the dimensions of these lawsuits and won't pretend to know the motivations of the players involved. But my take is that if Apple is forced to allow alternative app stores or similar, it will be a net benefit to those organizations that have the infrastructure to build such a thing, and not to independent developers. There will probably be new app stores through which indie devs can sell, but let's be real, those app stores will be lower quality, with less reach, and more likely to contain malware, spyware, etc.
The end consumer gets access to software they might not have otherwise had (like Epic games I suppose, maybe Steam, maybe others). They might enjoy lower prices on alternative general-purpose app stores, and it might drive down the price of apps overall from indie developers. But that means the quality of apps from indie developers will take a hit, and the quality of curation in those alternative app stores is likely to be much much lower.
As a consumer, I don't really want this. Others may disagree, and that's fine. Maybe an ecosystem of high-quality, highly-curated independent app stores will flourish, what do I know?
Most of mid/big players in music apps industry already have infrastructure in place.
I’m always sceptical when I read things like Logic (or anything) will bring more players to iOS… imo this is the main thing that holds few of them off. In general this platform has plenty to grow before it can become a interesting.
You are completely out of line. It is a pejorative word, meaning it is an adjective to describe disapproval, or to find something no good or of no importance ie. Faulty.
The audacity to assume I dont know shit about a word and am able privileged is more offensive. Or jumping to a conclusion that I surely must not be neurodiverse is astonishing.
There are plenty of white rednecks in the area that I live in who claim it’s OK to use the n word because it means ‘black’.
It doesn’t make it any less discriminatory.
it won't change much for Apple, the appstore will always be dominant for iOS, but it's the freedom which is significant, it enables lots of uses for different types of people. more access to open source software etc etc, more control and choice for professional users etc.
To the average user, which Apple aims their ecosystem at it has no real significance, for the enthusiasts/geeks/pros it's quite interesting
I would not equate the words that come out of Sweeney or his lawyers’ mouths to represent what Sweeney really thinks or his actual motives. His motives are to make himself as much money as possible and if portraying himself as being on the side of consumers, he obviously will go that route…as no one will hold him accountable if the words are empty PR made to make him sympathetic.