Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
What is Loopy Pro? — Loopy Pro is a powerful, flexible, and intuitive live looper, sampler, clip launcher and DAW for iPhone and iPad. At its core, it allows you to record and layer sounds in real-time to create complex musical arrangements. But it doesn’t stop there—Loopy Pro offers advanced tools to customize your workflow, build dynamic performance setups, and create a seamless connection between instruments, effects, and external gear.
Use it for live looping, sequencing, arranging, mixing, and much more. Whether you're a live performer, a producer, or just experimenting with sound, Loopy Pro helps you take control of your creative process.
Download on the App StoreLoopy Pro is your all-in-one musical toolkit. Try it for free today.
How to Arrange More Complex Pop Music Instrumentals?
I tried to use Google, and I couldn't find much on this topic. I searched Youtube and Udemy, and maybe I missed something, but I couldn't find anything there either. I tried Amazon to find Pop production books and hit a brick wall with books focused on the basics of music production (which I already know, or think I already know, maybe I don't know all the basics).
I tried ChatGPT, and it gave me rather limited advice and told me to look up courses online. Gee, thanks AI for telling me what I already know. 😂 Now tell me something I don't know/something that I may have known but didn't occur to me.
I will admit I'm a pretty good producer, but I have yet to achieve that level of arrangement and production quality such as heard in these instrumentals...
(Try to imagine these instrumentals without Youtube's dodgy audio compression, lol.)
I grew up listening mostly to EDM, and a lot of those Pop instrumental production techniques and arrangements seem rather foreign to me/to what I'm used to.
So my question to this forum is - are there any helpful resources I can look up online that could demystify for me how to arrange and layer more complex Pop music instrumentals? Any courses on Youtube, Udemy, or even books on Amazon I may have missed and overlooked?
(Note - I'm not searching for apps as I have what I need already such as Cubasis and Logic Pro. Rather, I'm searching for info and such. Also note - I'm focused on producing the instrumentals for Pop music like heard above, not vocal production techniques. One more thing - I'm still going to muck about with my OP-1 Field after I release my "The Great Heron" EP, but I'm starting to get back into iOS Music Production for more than just mastering what comes from my OP-1 Field.)
Thanks in advance. 
Comments
There’s a YouTube channel called Make Pop Music that a friend of mine claims is great! Underdog Electronic Music School has a couple of great videos on this as well.
There’s an interview with Benny Blanco that is very exhaustive as well and went into his workflow but now I can’t find it for the life of me.
Whatever the genre is (as long as there are actual notes, chords etc…), here it is pop music, I think music theory is what you need to learn to really improve your arrangements / compositions. It just takes time, patience and some dedication. Something tells me you’re a fast learn.
Perhaps look at some books on jazz or classical arranging or study some scores - listening to the Katy Perry instrumental above, I can imagine the parts being played by the different sections of the orchestra. For jazz, there is a good book by Henry Mancini - forget the title. There are many good books on classical arranging, my go-to is Orchestral Technique by Gordon Jacob if you can find a copy - it's a concise book that forgoes all the in-depth descriptions of the instruments that many other books include and gets straight into the arranging with lots of examples and exercises. @jo92346 is correct: practice, patience and dedication are needed. Hope this is helpful.
Well you probably already know that you want simple catchy melodies and chords, Applause being a perfect example. Then you take those melodies and chords and layer them to hell and back to create a rich sonic tapestry. Sometimes this can mean going so far as having to each note of a chord played by a different sound. Obviously there’s going to be a fair amount of automation work as well. And then on top of that, adding ear candy sounds that only play once in the track every so often to keep the ear from getting bored. Like if you have a 4 bar loop of chords that repeats a few times, never let that loop sound identical to the previous iterations, so every 4 bars there’s a new little twist: automation, ear candy, drums drop out for a second, additional sonic layers, less sonic layers, etc. So basically the track needs to be musically simple and reasonably repetitive, but SONICALLY complex and not repetitive, but also it doesn’t take too much to keep the ears engaged, could be as simple as a weird sample one shot playing briefly at the start of the next loop. It’s definitely time consuming to go through the track and make sure that no little bit is repeating itself sonically. I recommend listening to songs produced by Max Martin as he is a master at this sort of thing. One thing he does is have the stereo width narrower on the verses and then opening super wide on the choruses. Just keep listening
There’s probably a lot of automation of sub mixes and sends in a lot of these pop tracks as well. Makes sense when you have a lot of sounds to group them together for certain effects
Logic Pro has been supplied with a few demo projects over the years including Billie Eilish’s Ocean Eyes.
They’re obviously remade for Logic but you get a ton of stems and fx chains. Might be worth checking out. They should work on iPad.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1074&v=g4Vn3s-_ixs&embeds_referring_euri=https://whylogicprorules.com/&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo
Will have to see if I still have any of them. There were also projects from Beck and I think the Killers? Can’t remember them all. A very old version of GarageBand came with Nine Inch Nails’ The hand that feeds (or more likely NiN released it).
I should definitely have ocean Eyes somewhere. Might be fun to dissect.
Orchestration and arrangement are related but separate aspects. I’m all in favor of studying theory, but the best way to learn anything in music is to use your ears. This is always the best answer.
I’d suggest trying to recreate—or at least transcribe the form—of a track you admire. Choose an easier one to start with. Listen over and over. Make a timeline, and write down what is happening in every section.
You should have a look on youtube at Synthwave Dojo, Synthwave PRO and Make pop music (Already mentioned by Hotstrange 👊)
I know you are not trying to do synthwave but a lot of the same layering techniques apply.
Also the channel 'How to write songs'. discuss alot of pop chord progressions.
Multi Layer everything drums, synths and bass. You synth chords should be covering 3 octaves.
You need lots of ear candies all over and transitions. I am sure you already have bought Baby audio Transit. 😝
@HotStrange I'll definitely check those out.
@jo92346 I definitely know basic and intermediate music theory. Wonder if there are any books on advanced music theory or that covers all of music theory (or at least Western Classical music theory). I'm definitely a fast learner. I grokked the OP-1 Field practically overnight and got straight into work on the first EP I released about a month ago.
@pbelgium Now if only I could scrounge up 80 quid to buy the ruddy book, lol. It's definitely on my Amazon wishlist now. I didn't think to study orchestral works as a way to apply to my own works. That's actually a nice out-of-the-box way of looking at things.
@db909 Strange you mention Max Martin. That's one of my production heroes, and that "narrower in the verses and wider on the choruses" is a great technique I didn't think of.
And man, all this advice you gave me is pretty dang solid and can help others out there too who have similar interests to mine. I wish Max Martin would do a masterclass somewhere on producing Pop music. He was behind so many great hits over the years that he's more or less the King of Pop than Michael Jackson was (yeah, controversial opinion, lol, but that's all it is is an opinion). Anyways, do you know of other techniques Max Martin uses in his instrumentals mate?
@db909 Also yeah, I do sub mixes for drums and bass, and also for all instruments, but maybe I can do sub mixes for drums, bass(es), pads, leads, etc. More sub mixes. Easy to do in NS2 and Cubasis 3. (I think I will use NS2 to produce the instrumentals, and Cubasis 3 to record the vocals on top of the instrumentals, and of course master in Logic Pro. My iPad Mini doesn't have enough space for all the sounds I use, so I will be producing these things on iPhone. And before you say "iPad would be better", yes I agree, but I've evoked semi-complex mixes from that OP-1 Field for the past month or so, so I have no doubt I can do good work on the iPhone.)
@klownshed I'll definitely have to check that out mate. And that's really cool an old version of GB had a NIN track on it!
@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr Using the ears. A tried and true piece of advice I often forget about, lol. And transcribing the form? That sounds like a fun little experiment and project to me. I have a ReMarkable 2 tablet I write music and journal in, so perfect for describing and dissecting a Pop instrumental.
@ecou Synthwave is an amazing genre of music, and I've tried a Synthwave EP last year. I'm definitely going to check these channels out as soon as I'm done typing this response here mate. And, I did not buy Transit yet, lol. Does it require automation of the big knob? Shit, I may have to learn Cubasis beyond simply recording vocals and mastering (although now I master in Logic Pro), lol.
Much much cheaper on eBay or other websites.
https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?kn=gordon Jacob orchestral technique&sts=t&cm_sp=SearchF--topnav--Results
The big knob can be put on a loop. You could create you transition, render it to audio and chop it. Here the settings. You can get up to 16 bars. That should be enough for any transitions.
If your going to do big multi layer productions with automation you gonna need a DAW. Either Cubasis, zenbeats or LP.
@pbelgium Brilliant!
Just found a "like new" copy on eBay for 25. Not bad at all! It arrives in a couple of weeks max if not sooner.
@ecou Dang, Transit does seem super versatile for sure. I just thought it was another "influencer product". I am rather cynical. I mean I dig Andrew Huang don't get me wrong, but Flip left a lot to be desired compared to Koala Sampler.
I probably will use Cubasis 3 then since I'll be mostly producing on my 1TB iPhone (with the exception of mastering in Logic Pro for iPad).
(I'd probably use Logic instead, but my iPad has only 256gb. Zenbeats confuses the bejesus out of me. Cubasis also has those massive sound libraries now, so I'll definitely make good use of those.)
First thing I did after messing with Apple loops in Gb back in the day was to transcribe some favourite songs.
A great shortcut to this is to get the stems, although may be harder for instrumental versions.
There's lots of software to help though, especially on PC. Not so impressed with the stuff available on iOS but the spotify service is ok for lead lines.
I haven't done this for ages, perhaps starting with god tier stuff like Relax (FGTHW) and Roar (Katie Perry) was too ambitious, I had no idea who Trevor Horn or Max Martin were... certainly appreciate them now!
I agree those two songs are God-tier. Back in 2014 I couldn't go anywhere without "Roar" being played on the radio. 😂 I'd argue that "Rise" is far more God-tier with all the pads and soundscaping and ear candies, but then again that's my subjective opinion.
And now I'm looking up Trevor Horn.
Thanks for information
I know what you mean with influencer products but this one is a home run by the babies.
I was very confused too when I started using Zenbeats, I had to ask a bunch of questions. Those could all be resolved with a simple one pager manual. I think the confusion comes mainly from these 2 areas.
The top left button switch between Loop mode and Timeline mode. You click it once when you start a project and never touch it again.
Then the group of buttons. They each represent a features but if you are on a iPad were everything is visible because of the large screen then the buttons seem to do nothing. On a phone it switches between those features since the interface cannot show them all at the same time because of screen size.
It a odd choice but it is because the same UI is used on multiple OS.
@jwmmakerofmusic yeah I would absolutely use NS2 for this, specifically because of the easy track grouping functions
One of the things that helps me enormously is to play though something on guitar or piano while putting it together (I know you play piano). Going straight for the record button tends to lead to simplicity and repetition, but if you really want to broaden the arrangements, I think playing through a piece on an instrument where you can improvise and try things out as you play is the way to go.
I don’t always listen to instrumental pop/rock music, but this song is so brilliant.
Rafiq Bhatia - Breaking English, also check out Hoods Up if you like this one.
I see @ecou . Zenbeats still confuses me, but eh, if it works for you and others, definitely have fun with it. I'll definitely get Transit soon, but thank goodness I held off. I bought the two new Gadget IAPs instead.
The guitar one was one I never knew I needed. 😳 But just having those rhythmic guitars in a mix is chef's kiss. And Kingston finally in NS2? Jfc that blows my mind.
@db909 And so I have indeed went back to NS2 afterall. Here's what I got so far.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/rw15lv92nj2dj7k9w2wet/011024a-2-converted.m4a.m4a?rlkey=jadfv3lkokyeud7p12h1xyo1w&dl=0
Of course this is just the demo loops and not the final arrangement, so no automation juuust yet.
@michael_m I definitely agree with this mate. I usually use a piano sound in whatever creative environment I'm in to lay out chords and melody. Now that I can load Marseille into NS2 (flippin hell I never thought I'd see the day), I have the same quick and easy piano to use that I use in Gadget.
@Poppadocrock Amazing video mate. I'll definitely check out more of Rafiq's amazing music tomorrow.
When ‘Relax’ first came out the sound of it was just incredible. TH productions were indeed god level.
Grace Jones slave to the rhythm was another that jumped out of the speakers.
And if you want to go down a real Trevor Horn rabbit hole start exploring the Art of Noise. Incredible stuff and shows off the talents of Gary Langan and J. J. Jeczalik who were both a huge part of FGTH and other TH productions. JJJ was the Fairlight king in those days. Anne Dudley was also very important in AoN but those other two were behind a lot of Trevor Horn’s biggest hits and basically replaced all the band members of FGTH.
I wore out my 12” of Two Tribes Carnage mix.
I wanted to be a record producer when I was in my early teens listening to that stuff and TH played a big part in that. I was always attracted to the overall sound of records.
Thanks @klownshed mate! Sorry about the late reply.
Well, this video POPped up on my feed this morning.
Very useful information about writing a hit pop song. I wrote two songs so far, although one is technically still "in production" as I seek out a singer for it. The other has lyrics inspired by Glenn Frey's writing style.
I feel inspired to get back to writing Pop music. No magic formulas, just some solid tips in the above video! Basically "Keep It Simple, Silly". (Doesn't necessarily mean I have to keep the arrangement simple, but rather the arrangement must serve the message of the song.)
Stretch out and compose in different time signatures: 5/4, 6/8, 7/8, 13/16, 21/16, etc.
It will force you to think about how you work and find solutions within a piece.
Also, try laying off the pot for a while (unless there’s a genuine medical need) and see if your thinking changes. For me, it’s coffee. My brain chemistry is strongly affected by coffee and one strong cup in the morning can make me to go on a creativity and output bender until late the next morning.
I definitely haven't done pot in a couple weeks. My creativity has soared to be honest. Like even moreso than when I used my OP-1 Field and produced three EPs.
I'll see about using odd time signatures in my Pop music.
I kinda want to stick to 4/4, 5/4, 3/4, etc for now.
Trust me, you'll think differently when confronted with time signatures you're not used to.
For sure mate.
I'll try more experimental time signatures soon.
Coffee just makes life better. But I agree. I’m often at my most productive with headphones in and a cup of coffee next to me.
Okay, I gotta answer this because its @jwmmakerofmusic
First off, man...your production skills is already on point. Drums, Bass, Melody, Chords, strong use of transitions and FX, mixing, and mastering...you've got that down.
What I'll say to take you to the next level is...find a vocalist. Or do them.
Believe me, the first few takes may not be the greatest.
What I've learned these past few years, even in my current hiatus, is that the vocals will transform a production from an instrumental to a story. And people gravitate to stories. Nonsensical stories about fun, or stories relating to a moment in life. Or an avenue to express their rage, excitement, or repeated words with interesting transitions.
Here's another example...the Kiffness is known for making remixes of vocal snippets online. His production isn't overly detailed (he makes the song live, using some live instruments, simple synth sounds, and you can see his production techniques)
So, to summarize, don’t overthink it. Your production is good. Work with a vocalist, do it in the moment, and it will take you to the next level. That’s something I learned from both Zedd and Switchfoot.
@HotStrange Coffee makes the world go 'round, lol.
@seonnthaproducer Thanks for the advice man. So glad to hear from you mate.
I think I'm starting to get this Pop production stuff down real good, from layering and bussing and other such techniques. "Night Sky" is a track from my upcoming "Pop Era" EP where the instrumental was inspired by Sia's instrumentals, but the lyrics were inspired by Glenn Frey.
Although regarding simpler melodies and such, Garageband is king for that. I just produced a Folk Pop song in GB. It was actually Mum's song that she wanted me to produce in that style, and I finally did it. (I didn't have the proper techniques to produce Folk before Mum passed, and it took me all this while to finally bring myself to make it.)
Okay, so I'm trying to decide what I want to produce next for my "Pop Era" EP. I'm not creating a separate thread for this just to create a poll and clutter the forum.
Now I've already done a Sia-styled song with Glenn Frey-styled lyrics. I've already done a raunchy Pop song ala Lady Gaga (although that one's on the backburner as I save money to hire a vocalist). I did a wholesome Folk Pop song with lyrics and melody written by my late mother. So let me just put out some ideas I have in mind and see what you think...
Unless you have other genre and songwriter ideas that aren't repeats of the three tracks I've already made. Feel free to suggest something.
Let's get a conversation going.
(Personally I'm leaning towards either 3 or 4.)