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Comments
Hi JoyceRoadStudios, thank you for your feedback!
"Constant loudness" refers to the fact that the perceived loudness does not change while changing the amp gain level or the channel. I used to find really annoying the volume mismatch between different gain levels on traditional amp, and for this reason in PRIMO I've decided to have constant loudness across all the sounds, from clean clean to high gain distortion.
Ok, more info about comp and reverb in the manual, noted! At the moment the reverb does not have a variable low-cut with the wet parameter, actually the reverb is "static" and the pot just adjust the balance between dry and wet. The filters in the bottom right corner are high and low pass, the high pass is at the beginning of the signal chain (before the noise gate, because removing low frequency rumbling before a gate can help in keeping lower its threshold and therefore less invasive). On the other hand the low pass is after distortion/amp etc, to remove possible harshness.
I'll have a look on that low frequency content, thanks for the feedback!
Regarding the real amp, I do not have an agreement with the artisan that made it, so I can't say the name. It's not Mezzabarba or Brunetti, it's a smaller company, we have great amp makers here in Italy!
Ok maybe it’s T&B Amps! No I’m just guessing! Doesn’t matter what it is, it sounds great. To me it feels like the cleans and headroom of a Hiwatt or el34 American to British cross. Not really getting a modern metal vibe, more like classic to psych rock and big rowdy cleans.
Thanks for your explanations and for your willingness to take and consider feedback! Most of us just want to help!
I use iPad, but do consider making an iPhone version. Considering how streamlined the UI is on one screen, it would be easy to stick a phone at the end of a regular pedalboard and just have Primo on, even if it’s just a preset loader or preset player.
I love that there’s no option paralysis. The parameters and modules have sweet spots and are tuned/designed with great tone in mind.
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I like the UI. I’m not a fan of either overly skeuomorphic or avoiding skeuomorphism to the extent of removing all affordances. I think what you’ve got is great.
Love it! I’ve been wanting gear that worked this way since I first learned to balance the gain and volume knobs on my first amp back in the eighties! (Although clearly that amp wasn’t going to be that advanced. But it did make me imagine that it would be possible to separate drive and volume under macro controls.)
So far, no.
Thank you! Great job!
I’m trying to understand this idea of constant loudness that’s part of the design. I think what they’re saying is the volume doesn’t change as you turn up the gain? Is that it? That’s sort of like having a volume pedal after your overdrive section that always maintains the same volume no matter how much gain, if that’s what’s being said…
I could just have two completely different presets and volume match them myself. Or I like to go into AUM and check both input and output metering on the signal. So I can adjust the volume on different presets to get them to have the same output db reading. What if you have a song with a soft clean part and switch preset to a hard loud part? Is the idea that I can’t really do this anymore, or is it more like a convenient way to make the switch sound less drastic?
Sure when I’m in a guitar app switching between presets the signal will jump up and down, as a normal amp would. So why wouldn’t I want this to happen, especially if I can volume match it myself across presets? Just trying to understand, as it’s something I didn’t notice at all when trying Primo.
Well to me it’s handy to not have to adjust volume as I adjust gain. It’s easier to dial in more overdrive distortion without constantly having to ride the volume control. It’s more about making presets and about tweaking tone live than about balancing between presets, I think.
@apfx_audio I love the “constant loudness” implementation. Really helps in making decisions and analyze how the sound changes through the different stages.
@JoyceRoadStudios if you want a louder preset just turn up the output volume stage. You can save a louder preset with higher output volume. The constant loudness just makes sure that turning up gain will focus on the change of the sound, not an increase in volume. As we all know, when volume rises it makes it harder to analyze the actual change in tone, character, response caused by gain or other stages. If you usually volume-match seeing the meters this will just do it for you, it’s also not the same to volume match after-the-fact
Well, I’m finding your explanations above really useful so it might be worth it to include them in the manual. The “constant loudness” feature, the fact that high-cut is pre gain while low-cut is post… All these decisions make sense to me.
@apfx_audio Amazing work and thank you very much for making it free.
I liked the earlier suggestion that you could offer additional amp captures as IAPs. However, I would vote that if you do go the emulation route it should focus on sound only and keep the GUI simple - I personally much prefer the flat GUI to skeuomorphic. But you could also offer extra skins as part of an IAP, if there is demand.
Constant loudness is great, but maybe add the possibility to turn it off if required?
I look forward to the tutorial on the dynamics control - it's the one area so far where the controls don't behave according to my understanding of this feature.
Thanks again, I will eagerly follow your progress and I also very much like your company ethos. I wish you a lot of success!
The idea is that the perceived loudness does not change while changing gain level. The important part is the word "perceived", because it's not just RMS or peak amplitude, but it's based on a perceptual metric. For example a distorted sound is perceived as louder than a clean sound when they have the same peak value, for this reason is important to compensate the perceived loudness and not the simply peak/rms one.
If you want a preset to be slightly louder or quieter, you can use the volume pot, which is a pure level scaling and does not affect in any way the tone.
I really like the constant loudness, too. For me, it has made it much easier to mix and match amp tones freely.
That’s a really helpful explanation, thank you! It would be awesome for these details to be in the manual. Because your explanations are clear and eloquent and get to the nitty gritty, they would be most welcome in the manual. “Constant loudness”could mean so many things… a weaker signal gets bumped up, or there’s a limiter set on the maximum peaks, or the signal gets normalized across presets etc… so to avoid confusion, describe the features just as you’re doing on this forum. So many people try an app for the first time and get frustrated because of user error. In fact, many apps are sorely lacking in the manual department. A detailed manual is above reproach, and clearly you all know how to exactly describe your features.
Having the option to toggle constant loudness on and off would not be unwelcome to some, but if it’s an integral part of the core design then by all means keep it as is.
It’s a really nice and convenient design feature, but not a far fetched idea. Plenty of overdrive pedals just saturate the signal more as you crank the gain, rather than add volume. Even my 15 watt Fender Pro Jr, once you turn the volume up past 5 or 6, only adds saturation/compression and not volume. Maybe not exactly what you’re describing but I understand now and really look forward to playing tonight with that in mind.
I LOVE the UI. I find most skeuomorphic ones to be distracting. (A notable exception is AudioThing whose skeuomorphic designs always seem natural and intuitive.) The PRIMO interface is super easy to understand and use. My only request related to the UI is to make to icons that symbolize the tabs just a little bit lighter so that they contrast more with the background in dark mode.
It’s a wonderful feature that makes working with the app much easier and faster. Every amp SIM should build this in.
Like others on this thread, I didn’t understand Dynamic Control. That may need a little more explanation in the manual. Otherwise, I haven’t found anything missing so far.
I did find what I think is a bug. I’m using PRIMO as a plugin in Logic Pro for iPad. When I change the IR in PRIMO, save that project, then reopen it, the app seems to “forget” which IR I had previously selected in the saved file. This is happening with both the built-in CHP IRs as well as 3rd party OwnHammer IRs. Upon reopening the file, PRIMO always defaults to “AmericanClassic”.
Overall, you guys have built an exceptionally great application. I’ve purchased nearly every amp SIM that’s ever been published and PRIMO sounds as good or better than any of the others. And it’s much easier and more fun to use. Great job, @apfx_audio, and many thanks!
(We really should be paying you something for your work. Perhaps you can create an IAP for us to buy.)
@apfx_audio I also really like the constant loudness feature. Volume matching all your different guitar tones is an end goal anyway, and it’s not like you’re taking away our ability to have drastic volume changes if we want.
Consider adding a long press or something like that on both channel’s volume knobs to link them, so they can be adjusted identically with one finger when linked.
I think the low end content I was objecting to might be in the mids eq slider, more prominent on channel 2. I notice that if the mids are all the way down or close to it, it helps a lot for me and it does change the openness and clarity of the amp. The bass slider doesn’t actually seem to remove much low end content, and it’s ok to even turn it up. But the mids slider is doing so much, somehow I wish the center detent had more upper mids and less lower mids, or something like that. By the way, in standalone none of my audio interfaces are recognized, I think I’m on the latest OS. Works great and sounds great in AUM though! You should be charging market rate for this app.
I wish all plugins had this. It really helps me make better decisions while mixing too
Hi Schmotown, Thank you for your feedback!
I'm aware of that bug, but don't worry, it's just a graphic problem, the IR inside is loaded correctly. I've just solved that issue and we will release an update next week hopefully. I've also solved the resize issue in AUM, and it will probably be added to the list of official supported DAWs.
If you would like to support us, we have a desktop version of PRIMO that can be bought on our website, and also for each copy sold we plant a tree! For more info look for "guitar for future" on our website.
Could you please send us an email with a detailed description of your setup? It is really strange that the audio interface is not recognized by the standalone, maybe it's just a matter of OS permission?
No need, you were right. In the iPad settings I had to “Allow Primo to Access” Microphone. That worked instantly. I’ve had to do that a couple times with other apps in the past, but generally I’ve found that setting is On by default. Maybe different OS versions have a different default for that? Or perhaps you could set it default On upon download? Anyway, thank you for pointing it out!
The first time an app runs it has to ask user permission. As far as I know, apps can’t grant that permission on their own. (It is a security feature to prevent an app from spying on you by listening without permission ).
That sounds right, I don’t remember seeing that permission but it’s very possible I denied it accidentally last week. Anyway the app is very stable as far as I can tell, and I don’t mind the resizing quirks in AUM.
I think for my taste I need a mid cut, or a mid notch that toggles between 550Hz and 250Hz, or somewhere around there. Or I wish the bass slider controlled more of the lower mids and the mids slider had less lower mids. I’m really loving the eq with the mids slider almost off and the treble slider raised a smidge. This is with .11-.52 slinkys with humbuckers and single coils.
The IRs are very good, except for the Modern and Vocs which I find too bassy and congested. The modulation fx are stellar.
Yes! As explained by espiegel123, at the first startup iPadOS asks if you want to grant microphone access, for security reason I can't have that permission on by default.
Btw I have managed to use the Stage Mode features in AUM with external MIDI and OSC. Regarding OSC everything works without any additional hassle, while MIDI is not directly sent to the plugin apparently, like happens in some desktop DAWs, but it's received by the AUM wrapper. In the AUM plugin settings I've selected "MIDI Controls" (the third icon from the left, with the sliders), then "preset load" and mapped my MIDI controller to each Stage Mode features. It's more complicated wrt direct MIDI learn inside the plugin, but works. I'm trying to understand if it is actually possibile to receive MIDI and audio as inputs in an AUv3, because I thought it was not possibile but I may be wrong.
I believe it is possible to receive both MIDI and audio. You need to make the AUv3 an "aumf", Music Effect. Then AUM will understand that it has a MIDI input that the user can send to.
Audio effect AUv3 can definitely have midi ports to which the host can route midi which is the best way. It is undesirable when an AUv3 listens to to the host’s own midi input port rather than Midi explicitly routed to the AUv3 itself.
For example:
After great time with PRIMO I read your comment, and bought NA Faceman , and yes - from first seconds Faceman is my new default sound to check synths, and my classic guitar and more.
Thank you for recommendation.
Glad you like it. 👍🏼
It's not for everyone, but it does just what I want.
@uncledave @espiegel123 thank you for your insight, I'll check that and hopefully native MIDI will be part of the upcoming update!
NA Faceman has been my 'go-to' for a long time now. Does all I need and sounds amazing! The included IR is very usable, but I did treat myself to the York Audio Bassman cab.
Would like to check PRIMO out, but like @jwmmakerofmusic, I'm iPhone only. Seems like the user interface would look good on an iPhone @apfx_audio.
@pbelgium thanks, so the York Audio Bassman cab IRs did huge difference?
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Are this IR pack worth to consider purchase?
It's been mentioned many times on the forum that amp sims benefit from different IRs (Ownhammer, YA, ...). With this one, I wouldn't say there's a huge difference, but for me the YA sounds a bit more open with clearer mids, although it is a different cab - 4x10 vs 1x15.
Cool. Only $15. I'm gonna check that one out.
I agree the included IRs are good enough, but I happen to like the Nembrini IR loader for it's other features, so I use one of my Ownhammer cabs sometimes. I wanted to try a four speaker configuration too, so this is good.
While nowhere near as cheap as an iOS app, I have been using a NUX Amp Academy pedal into a USB hub for guitar amps. It means that I can send a high impedance signal from guitar pedals to the NUX, so I essentially I can use any hardware guitar pedal I choose, or I can post-process on the iPad.
As for the NUX, it has some pretty amazing amp models, way better than the Tech21 SansAmp I own (which I am now thinking of selling). It can load IRs, so I can choose cabs as well as have a lot of amp tweaking options. It definitely stands up well against any amp modeling software I have, including Blue Cat Audio Axiom (which is my go-to for desktop - great sounding and fantastically configurable).
Hi guys, following the discussion we've had here, I've release a new version (1.3.1) that has full MIDI input support as AUv3, a more detailed user manual, correct resize in AUM and some other bugfix. Thank you for your feedbacks!